Zeekler COO Dawn Wright-Olivares Speaks With Troy Dooly On Some Of The Red Flags Surounding Zeek Rewards

DS Edge Feb 2015

MLM Executive Interview

Zeekler COO Dawn Wright-Olivares Speaks With Troy Dooly

On Some Of The Red Flags Surounding Zeek Rewards

A couple of weeks ago Dawn Wright-Olivares, COO of Zeek Rewards took time out of the Association of Network Marketing Professionals annual convention to sit down with me and talk about some of the red flags surrounding Zeek Rewards and what she and her compliance team have done to clear up any possible issues.

Zeek Rewards COO

My good friend Ted Nuyten has done a solid review on Dawn Wright-Olivares over at Business For Home, which will give you a little deeper insight into Dawn and her family.

Troy Dooly

Troy Dooly is recognized internationally as an influencer in the areas of personal branding, leadership development, marketing campaigns, organizational expansion, and corporate launch strategies. Dooly is a speaker, results coach, and radio host. He is a founding member, show host (Beachside CEO) and News Director of the Home Business Radio Network. He is a founding member, and currently serves on the Board of the Association of Network Marketing Professionals

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Troy Dooly is recognized internationally as an influencer in the areas of personal branding, leadership development, marketing campaigns, organizational expansion, and corporate launch strategies. Dooly is a speaker, results coach, and radio host. He is a founding member, show host (Beachside CEO) and News Director of the Home Business Radio Network. He is a founding member, and currently serves on the Board of the Association of Network Marketing Professionals

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71 thoughts on “Zeekler COO Dawn Wright-Olivares Speaks With Troy Dooly On Some Of The Red Flags Surounding Zeek Rewards

  1. Great to see you had the opportunity to interview Dawn Troy.

    Troy: "if everybody's buyin, there's money to pay out"

    Dawn: "Yeah, yeah"

    Troy: "If people stop buyin, the money would go down"

    The buying you're talking about at that point in the video is VIP bid purchases… so if people stop buying vip bids, there's nothing to pay out.

    Given that the purchases attract a daily ROI, they're not purchases, it's an investments.

    Ergo, if everyone stops investing, the money would go down! As you correctly stated yes, that's not a pyramid scheme but it's the perfect definition of a ponzi.

    100% of the "sales" of VIP bids is done with the intention of increasing a members share in the profit share, which is primarily made up of other revenue from other member's purchases of VIP bids.

    Meanwhile the "thing" Dawn doesn't want Zeek Rewards to smell like is an investment opportunity.

    Why can I still sign up to ZR, buy bids and then just give away said bids to customers I create myself (all you need are proxy servers or perhaps a VPN network)?

    These customers are not verified on anything else other than an email address and are easy to set up to give bids away to (Zeek don't care if the bids are used or not, only that they are given away).

    Furthermore, if this is too much of a headache, presumably the daily bids I have to give away is too much. Therefore I'd have more than enough to pay for 2 PRC accounts a month to continue to give massive amounts of bids away to allegedly company-generated customers (previously the $2.50 per customer 5cc).

    And there is nothing "hard work" about any of this. Let's not forget that up until March 2012 you didn't need customers to earn in Zeek Rewards. Either you passively invested and just paid ZR $2.50 a pop to give away 1000 bids (diamond) to allegedly company-generated customers, or just created fake customers yourself (email requirement).

    "Nobody has money in Zeek"?!

    What is she talking about? There's a $10,000 cap on the money you can invest in ZR bids. How is that not counted as money 'in Zeek'?!

    In her analogy, how did you get the burger? You bought it! That's money you put into the company. But anyway, even if we discount that the analogy is bogus because the burger company do not pay you a 90 day ROI on the money you spent on the burger like Zeek does (if anyone knows of a burger place that does do this, I'm all ears).

    Apples and oranges.

    Finally, rather then carrying on about not wanting Zeek Rewards to smell like an investment opportunity, why not just get rid of the smell once and for all by clearly stating how much of the profit share is made up of member investments in bids and membership fees?

    If Zeekler is well and truly holding up the profit share then why not just state Zeekler contributes over 50% of the daily profit share? How is this percentage a "competitive secret"?

    Also in the interest of impartiability, I couldn't help but notice the Zeek Rewards link in the blog post points to the Zeekler/ZR account 'hippiediva'. Is this a personal ZR account, family member, friend?

    I noted it wasn't disclosed in the post itself.

    • Oz,

      You do raise some excellent points. I will take your comment and see if I can get Dawn to address these specific red flags you pointed out. I may also be able to get one of the legal teams to address it.

      As always thank you for taking time to add value to this community.

      Living An Epic Adventure,

      Troy

    • YOU — Given that the purchases attract a daily ROI, they’re not purchases, it’s an investments.

      ME — Wrong. It's a purchase. If the company chooses to reward their affiliates with profit-sharing, what's wrong with that? If they have profits, they share, if they don't, they don't. There is no guarantee of profit-sharing.

      YOU — Ergo, if everyone stops investing, the money would go down! As you correctly stated yes, that’s not a pyramid scheme but it’s the perfect definition of a ponzi.

      ME — Wrong. A ponzi scheme can never succeed, it will ultimately fail, as it is nothing but an illegal, mathematically impossible scheme by design. Zeek is not a ponzi. You make a purchase, you get a product. If you meet your marketing qualification requirements, you share in profits, if there are any.

      YOU — “Nobody has money in Zeek”?! What is she talking about? There’s a $10,000 cap on the money you can invest in ZR bids. How is that not counted as money ‘in Zeek’?!

      ME — If I buy $10,000 in Shaklee or Amway inventory, do I "have money in Shaklee or Amway" or did I make a purchase? I made a purchase.

      YOU — Finally, rather then carrying on about not wanting Zeek Rewards to smell like an investment opportunity, why not just get rid of the smell once and for all by clearly stating how much of the profit share is made up of member investments in bids and membership fees?

      ME — Why should they reveal that just because you ask them to? It's a private company, they don't owe that to you. They can take the stance that it is proprietary.

      ME — You write like a guy with an axe to grind. At least Troy seems to be fair.

      • Yoda,

        I want to do is clarify a couple of points in this conversation to help folks see the issues in a broader light.

        1. The definition for ROI is 100% correct. However, in the marketing world, ROI can mean something a little different. When people "spend" money on placing ads, they will regularly ask what the "ROI" will be on their ads. I see the same issue at Zeek. When people "spend" money on bids, it is an expense, not an investment based on the current tax code in the USA. However, because there is a compensation plan attached, people (me included) are getting a little confused… Well greatly confused :)

        I think this is one of many issues we see with trying to determine if promoting penny auctions/reverse auctions as a business could be seen as an investment or not.

        2. "Profit Sharing" is another one of those terms used inside of network marketing that has a close meaning to the official definition, but is different. The term "profit sharing" is many times used to reward distributors for a specific action, and not on the full profits of the company. This is one of the action items I will be asking about while at Zeek in a few weeks.

        YOu are adding great value to the community on this issue.

  2. Correction –

    "Given that the purchases attract a daily ROI, they’re not purchases, it’s an investments."

    should be

    Given that the purchases attract a daily ROI (once given away, not actually used), they're not purchases, it's an investment.

      • Todd,

        I think I understand where you are coming from. However, in the case of network marketing aka direct selling, you are not investing in the business but joining the company. All you are doing is signing an agreement for the right to market their product or service, via your own independent business. And when you file your taxes, the money you paid to join and even buy bids, is seen as an expense, not an investment.

  3. If Zeek stops selling bids they go out of business. Just like any other interprise. Does that make all businesses "ponzies?"

    • Todd, you are correct that if Zeek stopped selling products they would go out of business… unless they changed the business model, and the affiliates stick around. Now as to your statement "just like any other enterprise" I am not sure I agree. Over the years, many businesses stop selling their own products, but continue to service what they have already sold. And in some cases like Atari, they stopped making consoles and started selling games under their own label for other platforms. Even a few network marketing companies have done this in the past.

    • Todd,

      That is not an accurate statement in any shape or form. A ponzi, never expects to pay back everyone. The whole concept is to make as much money as you can, but paying out as little as you can from the newest players, to satisfy the older players.

      Even, if you used the word "pyramid" it would not work. Because in a pyramid, the math will not sustain the payout. With most companies that launch in the direct selling channel, their products will sustain the math inside the compensation plan, even if recruiting were to stop.

      Maybe I am missing something, and if so, please do not get offended, just explain in more detail.

      Living An Epic Adventure,

      Troy

  4. Seems to me it's a profit-sharing arrangement, not an investment. With an investment, you can put your money in and do nothing. With this, you are buying something — bids. There are marketing requirements to promote the company. And one of the ways they pay you is with profit-sharing.

  5. I must be a genius , cause even I can figure this out Oz .

    There is no Roll over ! And here's why. When you take what ever amount of money you make that night , you are making a purchase . You are NOT putting it into a account !

    With a investment , if someone runs off with the money , you are intitled to damages in some form or another . There's is now lawyers out there sueing Brokers for people who lost money .

    I zeek was to shut the doors , they would owe you nothing ! You made a purchase of their product . Does that scare me ? Very little . I think they realize they have a great thing going here . They are still hirering people , so I'd say they don't plan to go anywhere .

    • Mike,

      Thanks for taking time to comment. This does seem to give a new perspective, and one people can understand.

  6. hello troy .thank you .you are doing great job.!

    i want to ask you and dawn olivares, what is the true answer to "OzSoapbox" comment and Question that he ask dawn the coo of zeek??

    and i have another concern about something that i found on the internet last month that make me worry. i found this :

    http://www.spamdailynews.com/publish/SEC_shuts_do

    "

    Get Out Now January 21, 2012

    This doesn’t sound much different than a program I got screwed in back in 2006.

    It didn’t turn out well for that company. Take a look: http://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/lr19579….
    Notice a few similarities:

    &ldquo ;www.12dailypro.com claimed to be a paid autosurf program — a form of online advertising program that purportedly generates advertising revenue by automatically rotating advertised websites into a viewer’s Internet browser. Advertisers purportedly pay “hosts,” which in turn pay their members to view the rotated websites. The Commission’s complaint alleges that 12daily Pro’s sale of membership units constituted the fraudulent and unregistered sale of securities under the federal securities laws.”

    Zeeklers purports that most of their revenue comes from selling retail items at auction. My guess is that most of the commissions are coming from signups and selling bids that expire. Bids that are used to pay other people may be considered unregistered securities.

    “According to the Commission’s complaint, the 12daily Pro website, recently ranked as the 352nd most heavily trafficked website, solicited investors to become “upgraded members” by buying “units” for a “fee” of $6 per unit, with a maximum of 1,000 units”

    Man – does that sound familiar. Change the word units to bids, and the fee from $6 to $.65. Zeeklers

    “12daily Pro promised to pay each upgraded member 12% of his or her membership fee per day for 12 days. At the end of 12 days, the member purportedly would have earned a total of 144% of his or her original membership fee, 44% of which would be profit on the membership fee.”

    So you would get your money back with 12DP and make a 44% return in 12 days. That is like 3% a day. Zeeklers is a bit more conservative, they only offer a ridiculous 1.5% per day, or over 500% year. Nevermind that this is mathematically impossible after a certain amount of time, but hey, when your making money from a scam, who needs to use their brain?

    “To receive the promised payment, a member purportedly must view at least 12 web pages per day during the 12 day period. The amount of returns that 12daily Pro would pay its members, however, was in fact dependent solely on the amount of each member’s investment, not on the amount of website-viewing or any other services rendered.”

    Zeeklers – “All you have to do is post 1 ad per day!” I highly doubt they are making these returns by selling blenders over the retail price. Something tells me the SEC will find this program no different than 12DP.

    “The Commission alleges that the defendants defrauded investors by operating 12daily Pro as almost a pure Ponzi scheme — using new investor monies to pay the promised returns to existing investors — in violation of the federal securities laws. The defendants falsely represented that upgraded members’ earnings “are financed not only [by] incoming member fees, but also with multiple income streams including advertising, and off-site investments.” In fact, at least 95% of 12daily Pro’s revenues have come from new investments in the form of membership fees from new or existing members. The other “multiple income streams” from advertising revenues or off-site investments touted by the defendants were either negligible or non-existent. In addition, undisclosed to investors, Johnson transferred more than $1.9 million in investor funds to her personal bank account since mid-2005.”

    My guess is that you will find this to be similar when this thing comes crashing down after the SEC does their DD. Yes, I have forwarded ZeekRewards to the SEC. More of you should do the same here: http://www.sec.gov/complaint/tipscomplaint.shtml
    If Zeekrewards is legit, then after the SEC’s investigation, they will still be in business, and you can go make your millions. Until that time, it is best to wait and see if they can pass the scrutiny test."

    thank you very mutch hop to get an answer to my dilemma…

    • Bob,

      I will get Dawn to address the question from Oz. As for the SEC on 12DailyPro and even the Secret Service when they closed down AdSurfDaily, these companies did not have any form of auction at all.

      The Ad Surf industry was short lived, and although what some call a solid concept, the issue came when all the ads became internal consumption. Only the people who were part of the money game, were placing ads. Very few ads were being sold to folks outside the matrix.

      I warned on this long before the regulators got involved.

      In the case of Zeek, the auction can be used by anyone, and anyone can buy bids, from my understanding.

    • Bob, I am very familiar w/adsurfdaily, as I got two family members to get out quickly after I realized it was a ponzi scheme. Adsurfdaily had no external revenue stream. They sold no actual product, made no commissions, etc. The presentations made were essentially a pack of lies to the people who poured money into it.

      There is an external stream here…it is the failed bids of customers trying to buy products. It's clever, you could be a guy off the street, go to Zeekler, buy a bunch of bids and fail to win anything, and now your money is in the hands of zeekler. If I understand correctly, 50% of zeekler's profits go to the affiliates on zeek rewards, so it's more than just the money put in by the affiliates going to the affiliates.

      If affiliates stopped cold today, zeek rewards would die, but zeekler would continue. The core business survives, insofar as I see it.

      I'm always skeptical of too good to be trues, I have yet to see a giant hole here. Not saying there isn't one.

  7. Well, all I can say is that they used to say the same thing about successful companies such as Amway, MaryKay and Avon. While the people trying to figure whats wrong with a company that iis becomming successful, the rest of us who are part of the company will continue to move foward along with it and rip the reewards! ………..:)

  8. Troy,

    I just viewed the videos, as I am considering joining Zeek Rewards, and frankly don't understand where Oz connects the definition of "ponzi" to the marketing model ZR offers.

    For you, Oz, know that years ago I was unsuccessful in a network marketing business that had a good product, but over time the demand tapered off and I "closed my doors".

    Was I upset ? Sure, I had hoped to be successful.

    Did I blame the parent company ? No.

    Did people make wild claims about earnings ? Yes.

    Did the officers of the company make these same claims ? No. They said you needed to work hard to make a decent living.

    Did I do enough "due diligence" regarding the product line ? No. This time I am.

    In my humble opinion, ZR is a business with a product line. If I were to look SOLELY at the Penny Auction Site and it's profit margins, then I could make the informed decision to join or not.

    Penny Auctions are hot right now, and probably will be for quite some time. Will they be around forever ? I doubt it, but don't have a crystal ball…

    Scenario One: As an individual, NOT an affiliate of ZR, I can purchase bids, try to win an item, then sell it on eBay. If it sells, great – I'm officially running a business !

    Risk / Reward is now in effect for me in this endeavor.

    Scenario Two: If I am an affiliate of ZR, being paid a commission on the goods (bids) that I give away and sharing a small part of the profit made on the bid website, I'm running a business !

    Risk / Reward is also in effect for this endeavor !

    Oz, simply ask yourself if you have a certain amount of money to risk, with the knowledge that there will hopefully be a reward.

    Business dynamics and markets change. McDonald's changes as trends change and is still growing. Hopefully Zeek Rewards will "morph" as the times change and still be around, with today's affiliates 20 years from now….

    Thanks, Troy, for letting me share.

    Sincerely,

    Louis

    • Louis,

      Although, I have to admit I don;t understand it all, but I am learning. I can say I am glad to hear you are having some success. And I am glad to see you are willing to share what you have learned.

    • The problem, Louis J, is you're looking at Zeekler, and think it is ZeekRewards, when they are ostensibly two separate entities. In fact, Dawn herself often have problems telling them apart, often referring to both together as "Zeek".

      Zeekler, the penny auction side, may be profitable, and there's nothing wrong with that, by itself.

      When you tack on a MLM business on top of it, namely, ZeekRewards, then it becomes problematic.

      Consider its name: ZeekRewards. It should be a program to reward Zeekler members, right? But that's not what it is. ZeekRewards instead is a recruitment driven program where your recruitment efforts is rewarded by this "VIP Points Pool" that is treated like an investment, as you are given a daily growth "share".

      ZeekRewards in practice, is a program for its "affiliates" (members) to qualify themselves for payment. How do you qualify? You need to have recruited PAYING members (paying monthly fee into the program) AND have posted ads for Zeekler.

      Consider it from the point of an outsider: why have ZeekRewards? if Zeekler is so profitable, why would it wants to SHARE its profits with members in ZeekRewards? What exactly does Zeekler get out of ZeekRewards? Two things: monthly fees, and those posted ads. How much does Zeekler pay INTO ZeekRewards? All those "profit shares".

      Without knowing what are the real profit shares and how much monthly fees its generating (and how much it would cost to post ads) we cannot evaluate whether ZeekRewards is profitable for Zeekler. And no business willingly launches losing propositions (there are rear exceptions).

      For ZeekRewards to be so profitable to all the members, Zeekler must be DUMPING money into ZeekRewards by the bucketful, so the profit shares are vastly outpacing the monthly fees, or else the ads are so effective it's worth the cost. However, that makes no logical sense. If Zeekler is so profitable, they don't need ZeekRewards at all. They can easily contract out some folks in third-world countries to post ads via bots for pennies per ad, and keep all the profit shares for itself.

      The way the ZeekRewards business is supposed to work makes no sense at all. Which leads one to suspect the whole thing may not be what it seems.

      • kschang – just a correction regarding the ZR side of the business –

        "How do you qualify? You need to have recruited PAYING members (paying monthly fee into the program) AND have posted ads for Zeekler."

        Correction – you do NOT have to recruit paying members to participate in the Daily Profits. YES you have to pay a monthly subscription to be a ZR Affiliate AND post your daily ad. But recruiting is NOT mandatory to participate in the Daily RPP.

        And it also doesn't cost anything to post the ads. There are tons of free sites out there where ads can be posted.

        "Consider it from the point of an outsider: why have ZeekRewards? if Zeekler is so profitable, why would it wants to SHARE its profits with members in ZeekRewards? What exactly does Zeekler get out of ZeekRewards? Two things: monthly fees, and those posted ads. How much does Zeekler pay INTO ZeekRewards? All those “profit shares”. "

        Main reason to have ZR? Better to pay people to help drive traffic to Zeekler than to pay millions a month in advertising. The nature of an online penny auction is totally reliant on steady incoming web traffic. Why not spend that money on your affiliates (who are apparently doing a wonderful job!) instead of TV, radio, print, and mail advertising? No different than any other Direct selling, MLM, NM model.

        • While your explanation makes sense, reality does not support our your explanation.

          Alexa says ZeekRewards is having 4 times the traffic of Zeekler. Therefore, traffic is going into ZeekRewards, not Zeekler. Clearly, all those ads are NOT working. There are also reports that Zeekler Ads are banned on various free classified ads sites such as Craigslist.

          And I maintain again, it costs much less to contract out the ad posting to some folks in Nigeria, Indonesia, and so on. Pay pennies per ad, which would cost MUCH less than whatever profit share this is. In the US you can buy services… Heck, you can buy software to do this automatically for $195 (until you get banned)

          Logically this ad thing is NOT the primary benefit of ZeekRewards to Zeekler. If so, it's a money losing supposition when there are much cheaper solutions available. The ONLY advantage it has is it is "distributed" (i.e. spread out) so you can't just ban them all.

          • kschang,

            Comparing Zeek Rewards and Zeekler on Alexa is like comparing apples and oranges.

            Every time somebody logs into ZR or visits multiple pages in the back office, they count as hits. So the Alexa numbers for ZR are inflated.

            Zeekler gets their traffic from customers or people visiting to see what the site is about, so the numbers are more raw.

            As for the ads, and this applies with any company, but for every 100 ads that you place, you will only garner a small percentage of customers who will make a purchase. Especially true, being that it takes a customer several times of seeing the same ad before they will act upon it.

            Being that Zeekler customers come and go, people in ZR will need to continuously place ads to help maintain or grow traffic on Zeekler.

          • David,

            Thanks for stopping by and adding some great value.

            On the Alexa side of things. It is my understanding Alexa only follows the index (home) page of websites. The do track the amount of time each unique visitor is on the site, but each page doesn't count as a new unique visitor.

  9. Hi,

    In regards to the tax comments, and how the income and expenses are reported – Is Dawn saying that bids repurchased can be classified as a business expense?

    For example, if a person chooses to use the "80/20" plan, he/she only physically receives 20% of the daily cash rewards, but 100% of the daily cash rewards is taxable as gross income because it's "constructive receipt".

    Would the other 80% of that be considered a business expense (because 80% was used to purchase bids)?

    Thanks

    • Chad,
      I can;t put words in Dawn's mouth, and I am not a CPA. However on the basic of levels, when a person buys bids to give away, it will be seen as an advertising expense. However, if they are using bids for their own personal gain, or are giving those bids away to other entities they have a controlling interest in, then those bids would not be seen as an expense. Plus I am sure there are also other business expenses.

      Now, I can tell you that, 100% of the gross income is classified taxable. If you put in 10,000 dollars and your credit grows to 100,000 dollars, and you decide to pull your 10,000 back out, but leave the 90,000 in credited growth, your 1099 would still show a 90,000 gross taxable event.

      Not sure I fully answered your question.

        • @Blacksmith,

          Hmmm… I will assume that you are referring to a 1099 that would show $100,000 in total income. If my assumption is correct, then you would need to do the following.

          1. Go to TroysTaxTips.com and use the information you find in Dr. Ron's book to help you in your specific tax situation.

          2. Make sure you have documented all your bid purchases for the year because those should be seen as advertising expenses.

          3. Make sure if you are a qualified affiliate at Silver, Gold or Diamond, that you also deduct your monthly subscription because it is also an expense since you have to be on a subscription to qualify to max the comp plan.

          That should get you started.

          Living An Epic Adventure,
          Troy

      • Hi Troy, quickie but because points retire after 3 months on a daily basis you houldn't be taxed on the total in your account. Matter of fact with points retiring if you were to take 100 percent out daily for 3 months to reach depletion of your points. Stands to reason then a percentage of points you will not count as cash as you will never receive it.

        Out of all the sites I've seen on accessing zeekrewards I do believe the discussions here overall are well presented. Zeekrewards is an interesting model and I will continue to watch its progress both externally and internally

  10. Few points.

    1. Regarding risk, when you join a MLM company the risk should not be the legality of the business model or hedging your bets on when the regulators catch up and./or the business collapses due to an unsustainable business model.

    2. Regarding sustainability, Penny auctions simply cannot sustain infinetely growing returns that member's ever-increasing VIP point balances demand.

    3. The sale of bids is ambigious. Customers can't buy VIP bids can they? Certainly not the ones that attract a 90 day ROI.

    Furthermore regarding your actual customers, giving VIP bids away is not the same as them purchasing them.

    The point is not that the bids wind up in fake accounts or with customers, it's that they are being purchased by members with the sole intention of enlarging their share in the daily ROIs paid out.

    You can make your members do any number of useless tasks, publish ads, give bids away, pat their tummy and rub their heads – at the end of the day the underlying investment into an account that Zeek pays out a dail ROI for 90 days remains the same.

    The fact that said account is virtual currency and not fixed dollars also changes nothing.

    • Oz,

      You do bring up some solid points. The most successful penny auction to date is Dulbi Network, and even they had to change their business model and add some additional revenue streams for the company, that doesn't payout to the field.

    • I'm no expert Oz, but I am a part of ZeekRewards and I had similar concerns.

      After being part of the company for almost 60 days, I have come in contact with die hard penny auctioners who LOVE this type of shopping.

      And I have a team member with a customer (generated by the company) that purchased $520 worth of bids on their own. And this is a complete stranger that my team member doesn't know or have any relationship with. I was truly impressed when I saw this and saw that this business model was attracting REAL customers and especially ones that will spend money at the auction.

      The deciding factor for me when looking over Zeeker and ZR was asking myself this question:

      Does the product stand alone and can it be sold for retail on the open market?

      The answer was yes! People buy bids to penny auctions retail everyday around the world and our customers buy bids from Zeekler as well.

      And customer can buy VIP and other types of bids as well. The items on the auction require different types of bids. So, the customers can purchase bids for the types of items that they would like to bid on.

      And yes I do repurchase bids to help grow my points balance. That's one way that I get paid and help grow my business. I don't see how that's any different than when I started my Real Estate company I threw every dime I made back into it for a while to build it up. (many times MORE than I made) It's the cost of doing business. It's no different than people buying large packs of product to sell or sample out to people.

      I think ZR is definitely worth the risk. I've seen great support and forward thinking from the company and corporate always encourages and teaches the RIGHT behavior. There will always be some that try to short cut their way, but that doesn't lessen the opportunity for me and many others.

      I was also cautiously optimistic and I'm glad I decided to "take the risk". So far the best company and corporate team I've ever had the pleasure to work under.

      • AliMaMa,

        Thank you for sharing your personal experiences! This helps us all see more from the inside.

  11. I think the ponzi/pyramid scheme question comes into play when people are not actually using the product, but rather just buying bids to comply with getting a paycheck. The handful of folks I know working the system have not bought anything, or even bid on anything.

    In any good, strong network marketing company you can sell the product as a stand alone product and people (other than those who stand to make money from the system) would actually take interest in it.

    I was shocked to find "actual money" being the product auctioned in several Cases. To me, that made it seem even more shady than I thought it was. I'd love to hear her respond to that. How in the world can a legitimate company promote and opportunity to buy bids to bid on cash. That almost seems like it comes up against a whole different set of laws such as lottery laws.

    I am only interested out of concern for some friends who are promoting it. Not to sound arrogant, but I have been around the block with "up and coming" MLM's, have watched many fail, and I have the same feeling about this one as the last one I was roped into with a promise (I ended up getting a check from the corporate office when I told them I was blogging about my experiences.)

    • Anthony,

      Great comment. You do raise some serious concerns when you mention actual money being auctioned. If U.S. Dollars are being auctioned, and bought or sold for more or less than face amount, and it is not collectible paper or coins, I think this would raise concerns with the Secret Service, the u.S. Treasury and the SEC. There may even be a law against actual bidding on U.S. currency since non of the people involved are licensed commodity traders, or a brokerage.

    • Anthony, in the vast majority of mlm companies, a large majority of sales of the product are consumed by the distributor base. With Zeek, a lot of the 'consumption' occurs through giving away sample bids to promote the Zeekler auctions.

      And, gee whiz, this is a company that's been around for almost 15 years. They are trying to do everything the right way. There will be issues with any company that is growing as fast as they are. It's unreasonable to think that everything runs to perfection 24/7 with such growth.

  12. Troy,

    I am currently an affiliate with Zeek rewards. I am very concerned as the profit potential seems very large for a normal business. Do you have any idea how much profit Zeek is making from affiliates purchasing VIP bids as compared to the money made from the penny auctions? Also, I am curious as to how well the online adds are working. Is there any information available that tells us how many customers Zeek is getting from the online ads put out by the affiliates? I keep telling my upline that I would feel much better about this company if I could see the actual profit reports for the penny auction.

    Thanks,

    Mark

    • Mark,

      Great question. Since I am not part of the corporate team, and the company is private I don;t have that answer. Although, I could ask, I am sure Paul would not provide the answer, and if I were in his shoes I wouldn't either.

      But, I can say, that since the business is a virtual business, it is easy to maintain very tight controls. As a matter of fact, outside of adding additional bandwidth, due to an unexpected rise in traffic, all other expenses should rise or fall in proportion to the growth of the business. So with no inventory, manufacturing, etc., there is a very good change their profits would be very high compared to an average business.

      And when you add in the fact they run the auction separate from the marketing arm, they may show a higher than expected profit in the marketing arm, and run the expenses through the main company.

      Not sure about the ads and how well they are doing. I do understand your desire to know the profits. But again the parent company is a private corporation, and non of the affiliates are stock holders.

      I can tell you that based on who they have hired for compliance, legal, consulting etc. over the last 60-days, they have deep pockets, and are expecting to be around for a long time.

      Living An Epic Adventure,

      Troy

  13. I find it very interesting that my "potential" upline 2 levels up cannot even begin to explain this program to me. They basically say just place a daily ad, come in as a Diamond for $99 month and earn big money by letting your profits ride for while. When the company brags about all the legal experts they have hired, is that not a red flag? How is this not a lottery or gambling? Is this scenario correct…?

    10,000 people but 10 bids ($1.00 each) and place them to win $25,000 US currency (a major red flag). 1 winner invested $10 to win $25,000…fantastic! 9,999 people lost $10. Zeekler earned $100,000, paid $25,000 for a net profit of $75,000. They pay “up to” 50% to the distributors. Therefore $37,500 was profit to Zeekler, and $37,500 is shared by the distributors.

    Other than the numbers being different, how is this not a lottery or casino game of chance? I would love to participate, but this really concerns me. Any feedback will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

    • Bob,

      I can fully understand where you are coming from. However, do keep in mind that Zeek has changed several things over the last 60 to 90 days to protect the longevity of the company and distributors from regulators. It is not uncommon for unlines not to be able to explain everything when so many changes have taken place so fast.

      Now, as to them hiring all these legal minds. the answer to your question is NO, this is not a red flag. The red flags were what I raised Pryor to Zeek announcing who they had hired. When visionaries and operational pros are growing a business, they are sometimes way to close to the situation to see everything.

      Once they saw the crazy things affiliates were saying on the net, they realized they needed to get things fixed. When a company has been around for 12 years, it is not be mistake. Especially when you are an internet company.

      Now to answer your questions on Lotto or gambling would take way to long in this comment. I have covered some of that in previous posts. I can tell you there is a fine line.

      You do have the same concerns most folks do starting out in penny auctions. I'm still learning how this all works, just so I can report on it.

      Of all the companies Zeek is the one focused 100% on compliance and has hired the best minds to cover all their tracks. BidiFy has just hired Kevin Thompson, but he has his hands full because the owner of BidiFy has a history of legal trouble inside the USA.

      You might want to read or watch the other videos I have posted. It is a high risk proposition, and not one someone should go into unless they are willing to work it. The hype of putting in money and doing nothing, is just that HYPE!

      • Thank you Troy, I will definitely review the post history regarding lottery etc. My final point is it is very difficult to "work" the program as you suggest and I totally agree with (which I would be thrilled to do), when you really can't explain it properly.

        Thanks again, for your feedback and what you do everyday.

        Bob

    • Why do you care, Bob, when you said above that you had already alerted the SEC? Have you been damaged or are you just naturally the type to squeal to the government when something MIGHT be of concern? I don't think you are the entrepreneur type, Bob, go get a job.

    • Frank,

      Not sure I fully understand your comment. Kevin Grimes is part of the compliance team, is this what you are referring?

  14. There are many people very frustrated with this setup, it would appear from many forum posts particulary on MMG that accounts are being deactivated and onlt doing selective payments, myself and my downline have missed the payment on 2nd april as have many others.

    Support just close the tickets with no explanation and live chat are as much use as a concrete parachute, they just say contact support go put a ticket in…In my entire online life I have never met such a bunch of unprofessional people…The people running it and hosting conferences and the zeekrewards news are all painting a very bright future…nothiing is wrong???how about they come forward and speak the truth, why are we losing payments, why are support being trained to give us scripted useless answers…why are accounts being blocked with no answers and no refunds with no way to contact them.

    Why are the retirement bids in some cases double to what was actually earned, answered by support…nothing is wrong, with no investigation.

    I do not think they need zeekrewards right now, it is causing them major headaches with compliance and legal issues etc, us affiliates have done our job and built them a massive database of customers, so I wouldnt be surprised this is the beginning of the end, this way they can keep all the profits and be even richer…remember where you heard it folks

    • Ted,

      I have done an independent investigation into some of the issues people have written about. Although I do not have answers for all of them, I will reveal one huge issue that has faced Zeek Rewards and the parent company, which they have quickly tackled. My finding will not please everyone, but it will explain what other outside critics do not want to address.

      Living An Epic Adventure,

      Troy

  15. Thanks Troy, we look forward to your revelations as zeek it seems like to keep us uniformed.

    The 2 main issues i read about are the blocking of accounts especially I think in Belarus, I forget where i read this and the non payment….The latter there can be no excuse for as many people rely on zeek as a full time income and I cannot now bring myself to listen to the lies and deceit on the recorded conferences because I get so enraged.

    I would be particularly interested in an explanation as to why the support and live chat have been upgraded to a totally useless system with rude, uneducated morons who have not got a clue as to our plight.

    The frustration with non payment is unbearable as there is no way to address this properly and myself, well I have no incentive to do anything with zeek promotion wise and have nothing but contempt for the people behind this organisation..We will wait patiently for our payment on the 9th April but we dont hold out much hope

      • Personally, I hope she doesn't answer this Oz cat, whoever he is. She doesn't owe any so-called expert anything just because he has a blog. She's busy running a company.

    • The closing of some international accounts was mandated by the US government. These are countries that the United States has sanctioned and no US business or individual is allowed to do business with them. Zeekrewards had to deactivate these accounts or face criminal charges.

      Zeekrewards has said they are doing everything possible to refund these associates payments.

      Sarah

    • It's very obvious that you are against Zeek. Responsible "journalism" and Oz in the same sentence seems a stretch to me. What is your agenda? Just curious, are you affiliated with a competitor to Zeek? Scam is a strong word, denoting fraud. Do you have any evidence of fraud? If I were you, and thank goodness, I am not, I would be concerned about associating the word "scam" with a company's name. Oz, are you needing to make some extra money? This Zeek deal seems to be doing fairly well around the world.

  16. Give it a rest OZ. You bring up some valid points, but your perspective is so aggressively biased you come off as a paid basher on multiple sites. It makes one wonder if you are on someone's payroll. Troy,on the other hand,is doing what he has always done. He is asking the tough questions, investigating on his own,revealing his findings and taking a stance of indifference toward one party or the other,but always looking to protect the mlm model.

    As to the question, Why does zeekler need zeekrewards when they can just pay pros to do it?

    The number one issue with penny auctions is traffic. No traffic,no profit. I think we understand that.

    When any professional person with a lick of business sense looks at the penny auction business model,they quickly realize the profit margin is enormous,likely the highest ever seen in business history.

    What is to keep this savvy entrepenuer from buying the software, a domain, and a few servers and start reaping enormous profits? Ofcourse,the answer is traffic.

    Zeekler does not need Zeekrewards,it needs traffic. It may come as a surprise to you to know they started out almost 2.5 years ago using the same method for advertising so many use today. Apparantly,it was a very expensive venture. Not until such time as they had exhausted this financial effort,proving it is very difficult and expensive to sustain a viable business using traditional means, did Zeekrewards even come into inception.

    Slowly at first,they began to generate traffic, but the key here is that with Zeekrewards they were able now to control and stabilize their advertising costs. Plus,they renumerated on performance of the site rather than performance of the advertisers efforts and abilities, far more cost effective and stable. The concept is exceptional and unique.

    Over time, the concept got traction. Fast forward today,and indeed,zeekler does not need zeekrewards,except for the fact that they are technically contracted with them now.

    So, now you are the saavy entrepenuer who bought that software,domain,and servers and started your own "Oz knows best" auction site,like so many thousands of others which fail. But this time,you found a way to implement it controlling initial and future renumeration for advertising.

    So,in Oz's world, he would cut Ozrewards out of the picture and hire some cheap overseas labor to do what his loyal Ozzies have been doing to put cash in his pocket?

    Remind me to never do business with you.

  17. We recently joined zeek and are very excited about it but should we be concerned about them closing their doors any time soon? I've seen lots of negative articles about this company but also lots of positive. What really means a heap to me and helped me make my decision was troys reviews and interviews. Troy, in a nutshell what is your true opinion about zeek, where they are going and the stability for its affiliates?

    • @Cramoremor,

      My opinion is Rex Venture the parent company of Zeek Rewards and Zeekler is run by some great business minded people who are not here for the short haul, but are looking to create a whole new category inside the network marketing community.

      The business model is untested in the courts or with regulators at a federal or state level. This being the case, there could be some bumpy roads ahead, if any regulations are put in place specifically for unique bid auctions.

      With that said, I believe the leadership has hired the best minds in each industry which could cause issues, and are implementing all the changes needed to stay well inside the laws in each sector they may overlap.

      As long as a person who decided to join Zeek Rewards fully understand this is a high risk venture due to the fact, the company is pioneering a new niche, then I believe they will reap the rewards of other pioneers of new industries in the past, such as the original reps of Prepaid legal, Primerica, Keller williams, Amway, Mary Kay and others.

      The one Achilles Heel which could cause an issue is the Zeek Rewards Affiliate themselves. If they do not go through all the training online, get on the weekly calls, totally understand how to market the zeek rewards network marketing opportunity, then the FTC, SEC or state AG could come down on the who ball of wax, for misrepresentation.

  18. Gee, I remember starting with A.L. Williams in the early 90's and going through the industry attacks and the bad press, and poor reps always complaining. And through it all, Art Williams, Bo Adams, Virginia Carter and so many more changed an industry. An industry which demanded their agents sold whole life (or not make any money), where you couldn't buy enough affordable life insurance to take care of your spouse and kids if something happened to you. Remaining families would lose everything because you had the foresight to buy that $25,000.00 life policy that nice insurance agent sold, and you owed $100,000 on your house! Just deliver one survivors check to a grieving spouse, and see which check they would prefer.

    Changing a crooked 175 year old industry, creating tens of thousands of millionaires and doing what was right, and knowing it was all along. Yea, I see this opportunity has some problems to overcome, challenges that most of us wouldn't go through, or work hard enough to do so, especially for some cry baby rep who joins a company just to complain, so IF it fails they can say "I told you so". But for a very special "few", this opportunity can be the best thing that they have come across. I'm not talking about all you "MLM EXPERTS". I'm talking about a parent who is trying to raise kids, run a household, and maybe join something with a low investment and build a team of like minded WINNERS!

    If it fails within a year, what is the loss? $120 to maybe $300.00? Life is a gamble, I'll take that bet!!

  19. Troy,

    I have digested hours of your analysis, and researched your background. My instincts tell me you are a character guy, offering credible unbiased examination. With that said I watched the interview but the ONE big question that nobody can get an honest straightforward answer on was not addressed:

    What percentage of the profit share are real customers paying 65 cents per bid, or a little less if they buy a pack or monthly subscription?

    Until this this one big question is answered, I will remain a skeptic, and rampant speculation about the credibility of the company will reasonably continue.

    I am a ZR member and I recently bought 200 leads for $400 from Z-Customers. In addition I had 5 "customers" who used free bids I gave them from answering ads. Not one of those 205 potential customers has actually spent a single penny. They have not bought a bid nor subscribed.

    I find this to be true with my entire downline and upline. The model does not appear to be working. Even if it could be proven that say, one out of 200 people were signing up, the company fails to address what % of the profit share really is true customers paying for a Zeekler Penny Auction Subscription or buying a bid or pack of bids. Nor does the company explain a goal of where they need to be in order to say the model is working.

    Troy, can you address this question, or is this simply the one big dirty secret that nobody is going to corner them on? If there truly is any credibility behind these people, why does this issue have to be so elusively handled, and not more transparent?

    Can you help the skeptical world here?

    • @TheBigQuestion,

      First let me say thank you for the kind words, now let's see if I can shed some clarity on this question.

      1. The company doesn't share profits – period, which is where part of the issue comes in when people as the question about profits. There is no way to provide a logical answer to the question.

      2. The company Does share a portion of Daily Net Revenues, which is a little easier to answer :)

      The company Does share a portion of Daily Revenues to the Zeek Rewards Advertising Affiliates.

      So with all due respect and your permission, let me re-frame the question to the following, without changing the context.

      "What portion of daily revenue are real customers paying 65 cents per bid, or a little less if they buy a pack or monthly subscription?"

      1. The answer is proprietary, and can't be answered at this time. However, the question is a valid question and is one that was asked earlier this month by infamous Wall Street short seller David Einhon to the CFO of Herbalife on their investor call. When Herbalife shared the fact they STOPPED breaking out retail sales from internal consumption, their stock had a short down turn of about 33% before rebounding.

      I can say that since Zeekler is a division of Rex Venture Group, LLC., and Zeek Rewards is the exclusive advertising arm of Rex Venture Group, LLC., that the revenue share should not be just limited to just Zeekler.

      Now let's look at the fact you are buying customers.

      Since March 1st, when the new Business Opportunity Rule went into effect, buying any form of lead from a professional lead generation company has me a little more complicated. But let's look at the leads before going a little deeper.

      1. Zeek does not promote or endorse any lead company, and at the direction of their legal team may be eliminating the ability to import any leads purchased from lead generation companies.

      2. The most successful Zeek affiliates are not using lead generation companies to drive Retail Bidders.

      3. I agree with you that the buying of retail leads from professional lead generation companies, giving those leads free bids, hoping to turn them into retail bid buyers is not a working or sustainable model. (I understand that is not what you were driving at, but it is closer to the reality.)

      When people buy leads, the goal is to make their process of building their company more passive and duplicatable. I make this statement from running and owning some most successful lead generation companies serving the network marketing community over the last decade. (I currently do not own or run any lead generation company.)

      Trying to shortcut the process of building some form of relationship with a lead, prior to turning them into a viable customer or team member, in most cases cost a person more money, and slows the process down in all companies.

      So in closing, because I have taken to much of your time, I want to say…

      1. The context of your question is solid, just not one that will ever be answered by any company until there is a law demanding it.

      2. Based on the fact the percentage of daily revenue (not profits) that Rex Venture Group decides to share with the affiliates (up to 50%) is a sustainable business model because it is based of a daily current event and is totally in the hands of the affiliates.

      If the affiliates do not continue to place ads, and retail bidders do not continue to buy bids, and the affiliates do not continue to build the advertising network, then slowly the daily revenues will go down, and the percentage paid to those who are active and qualified Zeek affiliates will go down in proportion.

      I will be addressing this in more detail in the next few days, so be watching.

      Living An Epic Adventure,
      Troy

      • Thank you for your prompt and thorough response.

        Here is what I took from your response:

        It is pertinent to recognize that the company is sharing revenue rather than profits.

        I can reasonably theorize that the reason a company would not break out retail sales from internal consumption is because the retail sales are a low % of the revenue share, maybe alarmingly or embarrassingly low. For this reason, obviously, no company would want to answer this question until the law demanded it.

        It seems then that if a company did have a high % of retail sales, they would tout it.

        Are there not viable companies that rely on a lot or even mostly internal consumption, and less or little retail sales outside a matrix? If this is true we then have to go back to the compliance realm and ask, where is the threshold that regulators look at to say, "Yep, they are selling enough retail outside the matrix- good to go!"

        Because ZR appears to be padded by other company arms that derive some retail revenue, and that maybe there is something coming from Zeekler (albeit likely very little based on the above theory that if it were substantial or viable you would want to tout it), then MAYBE this is enough to keep the regulators away.

        A reservation for me is how I can ethically attempt to sponsor people based on the faith of a "proprietary secret" without explaining that the company does not break out retail bids consumption on the penny auction website from the internal revenue of affiliates?

        I might measure my risks and gamble on the Rex Venture opportunity just as I might on any other business because I am a seasoned entrepreneur, (and I did go all in with the maximum allowed bids purchase), but I feel strongly obligated to clarify to potential affiliates whom I might sponsor that the company simply WILL NOT DISCLOSE how many retail bids they are selling,excluding affiliate monies.

        We then are left in the same cringing scenario that caused Herbalife to drop 1/3 overnight. I realize there are company income disclaimers, Troy, but it seems to be a very fine red line Rex Venture Group is riding even if they are lawyered up, and have credible leadership.

        The BIG QUESTION now is where does Rex Venture Group stand in the regulators eyes in regard to the retail "threshold?" Is there enough revenue outside the matrix, accounting for all revenue arms to say, "Yep, they are good to go!"

        I know you are busy friend. Any feedback will be sincerely appreciated. Many blessings to you and others in this forum who have taken the time to do due diligence.

        • @TheBigQuestion,

          Sorry for the delay in responding. I have been going through checking at the airport heading home on a Holiday weekend in the USA…

          Most companies do not split out sales because it is not an easy thing to do. Don't get me wrong from an accounting standpoint it is not that hard. But from a regulatory side it is not simple due to the fact there is not solid answer that has ever been presented at an industry level.

          The closest I have seen is the latest legal opinion which is known as the Burn Lounge Decision. In that specific case the Judge as ruled that in his opinion NO internal consumption should count towards commissions. Well we know this is an extreme. However in the same opinion the Judge also made it clear that 3% of revenues generated from people outside of the compensation plan is not viable to sustain the company as a viable direct sales business, and rendered an opinion that Burn Lounge was a pyramid. The company is going for an appeal even though they have shut down their operations.

          In the case of Zeek we do have public figured on how many customers vs. affiliates they have and the ratio is very heavy on the side of customers. However, if the sales numbers are low on the customer side then this could raise issues. However in reviewing cases where the FTC has questioned the sales numbers, they do not usually do so early in the launch of a company or new division, they give them time to allow the numbers to catch up.

          Now back to my statement above on the complication of breaking out customer sales vs. international consumption sales.

          There is not clear definition of what a customer is at any level regulatory level. Some will quote the 1979 opinion of the FTC which states 70% of the last product order must have been sold or consumed before a rep can purchase more as the rule. However in talking with experts and regulators their benchmarks seem to be around 50% of previous product orders consumed before reorder can take place.

          By the way, there are many companies where internal consumption may be higher than customer sales. However, if the company can show they have a high percentage of revenues from the sale of a product or service that is coming from outside the compensation plan, they will weather any regulators investigation. And since Rex Venture Group has been in business for over 15 years there is a good possibility the overall revenues of the parent company come from several sources and not just Zeek

          So, in bringing it home to Zeek, if all the bids purchased are being given away as advertising sample bids, then in theory it will not matter if an affiliate purchased 100 bids or 10,000 bids if they give me away then they can order more.

          However, there is some confusion (I will report on this next week) as to what constitutes a retail bid customer when it comes to Zeek. I can say that I do not believe this is a regulatory concern at this stage of the game. (and will report why next week)

          I can understand your concern on proprietary numbers. However is this not the something we do anytime we promote a company product or even network marketing opportunity? We gladly tell folks to connect wi us on Facebook, yet we do not seem concerned that their personal information may be used for something we do not approve or worse yet, their account hacked and their reputation tarnished.

          We promote products that have propriatary ingredient and yet we tell folks it will help them, not really knowing if they might be allergic to some of it.

          So I would suggest that this is not so much an ethical issue as it is a trust issue.

          I think the concern with Zeek is that so much has been said by folks who are not completely accurate or are way to subjective, that people have become even more concerned that usual.

          I can tell you that I have yet to see a question from the field not answered in public at the two Red Carpet days I have attended. As a matter of fact more info is shared than I have ever seen any other company share.

          I can also tell you that in 2009 DubLi was just where Zeek is today. They were getting their act together with basically the same legal and consulting team. Today they are a public company here in the USA and are classified the world's largest online shopping mall and reverse auction company using a network marketing advertising force.

          Although I can't share all that is taking place I can say that those who think they can duplicate Zeek, or that Zeek is just penny auctions do not understand the full potential or the vision of the company.

          So as I prepair to board the plane, I would sale your concern is valid and as an ethical person, you are doing it right. You much disclose to anyone you speak with that there are certain risks due to the nature of the business.

          I can tell you I invested quality time with Greg Caldwell who is one of the most respected men I know when it comes to corporate compliance, and when companies listen and implement what he tells them to do, they have not been shut down. When companies don't listen well we can see what happened to YTB. Same rings true with legal teams. If the company listens they stay open if they do not they get closed (Burn Lounge).

          Right now Zeek is implementing everyting they have been told to do to stay legal. And wit this team, who are close and work well with regulators I feel confident that if they continue to do what they have planned, they will become a really strong business model, and will continue to weed out those who do not want to follow the new qualifications and compliance measures.

          But at the end of the day there are no gaurantees.

          Living An Epic Adventure,
          Troy

        • I have been trying to find an answer to this very same question of retail sales vs internal consumption, and this thread had been very helpful. Is it true that the company can disclose this information if it wanted to? If THEBIGQUESTION is right and the reason they do not disclose this info is that the retail sales are shockingly or embarassingly low, that is certainly cause for some concern.

          On the other hand, if it is truly just a matter of time for retail sales to catch up, then I would be much more comfortable. At some point retail sales will have to drive the train – If it doesnt happen the only alternative is to reduce the daily RPP % And there are certainly alot of motivated people who dont want to see that happen.

          I do think the company is making great efforts to move things in the right direction. Success will ultimately hinge on the real value to customers of the underlying products and the company's (affiliates included) ability to communicate/convince customers to buy product (whether it be bids or iPods). There is a huge pool of potential retail buyers that are in the system; tapping that pool and converting to a higher percentage of paying customers will determine the success or failure of the effort in the end. It will be very interesting to see what happens on August 22 with zeebates which sounds like an effort aimed at increasing conversion of potential customers to paying customers!

          • @Sandy,

            First let me say thank you for stopping by and joining our community.

            Private or Public can share whatever financial information they desire to share. However, history does show us that most companies just like individuals do not share all their financials because it is part of their "trade secrets". In most cases the only numbers we ever see from any company is the gross sales or the grow growth in the sales force. I have yet to find a company that share their attrition rates.

            The reason companies do not usually show a breakdown in their sales numbers is because they really don't have it broken out like the critics would like to see it. And in most cases the critics do not really know what they want to see.

            The "Big Question" is not how many retail customers or retail sales a company has. The question is how much volume is the company generating over and beyond what it takes to max the compensation plan.

            Using a 26 year old company as an example… OzyFresh, is a well established network marketing company where the average distributor buys $300 per month in products. This is $200.00 per month above what they need to max out the compensation plan. In this case the additional $200 per month per distributor is seen as sales volume outside the compensation structure.

            Or we can use VEMMA, where 80% of the sales of the product is made by folks who are just customers and are not building any form of network marketing VEMMA business.

            But, for the most part from Amway all the way down to ZR, companies do not break out the sales. And from what I have found it is not because any company is hiding anything.

            In ZR's specific situation, they fully understand they have pioneered a new business model. Because of this, their new executive team is beefing up outside sales streams like the new auctions, increased auctions, buying a network marketing company with a boatload of customers and launching their new ZeeBates site.

            Plus many critics have never taken into account how many folks buy the products they have been biding on when the auction is over and they did not win.

            There are so many revenue streams at Rex Venture Group, that when it all plays out, I think folks will see there is plenty of revenue above the bid purchases from affiliates. But it takes time to get everything rolling.

  20. For those readers who have not read Troy's bio, be sure and take the time to read it.

    Also I recommend to read this terrific essay in "Troy's Reflections"

    http://troydooly.com/page/6/

    I found it very insightful.

    I am fairly new to this forum. I am a seasoned owner of several businesses, and I have taken the time to listen, read and examine many of Troy's videos and articles. This man is well-read and offers very valuable unbiased analysis. I believe you will find he has much knowledge and wisdom.

    Thank You, Troy!

  21. Troy,

    The How It Works section on the Zeek Rewards website says the following:

    The company has created a Retail Profit Pool (RPP) and shares up to 50% of the daily net profits with its Qualified Affiliates

    In addition the RPP says "retail profit share" each day it calculates the daily earnings.

    How does this relate to our discussion that the company does not share profits, but only a share of daily net revenues?

    Thank You, Sir

    • @TheBigQuestion,

      This is a great question. The company when it first started before the compliance team was hired was out of compliance in several areas. The website has been updated several times and is still going through a makeover. When the company had to move its focus on getting the credit card processing issues fixed, the website did not get completely finished.

      The new training videos which launched last week does cover some of these issues as does the compliance course.

      As I have said all along, Zeek and others still have a long ways to go to get everything up to par. They are working to get it all right, and each time I have brought an issue to them, they have run it through the compliance folks, and then made the changes.

      It is always great to hear from you.

      Living An Epic Adventure,
      Troy