Zeek Rewards Update Covering The Most Of Current Developments Including The Arrest Of Dung Xuan Nguyen Yesterday

Yesterday I was able to get a handle on some of the questions that have been asked and wanted to get a quick update out. I can tell you right now, there are NOT any specifics revealed because Zeek will be reporting on Zeek Rewards News all the details in the next day or so. But, this will give you some info on the banking, commissions, and qualification questions. Plus we cover the new security in place through the banking partnerships to break the backs of the scammers.

Zeek Rewards News

I am glad to see that the new Zeek banking partnerships have provided the top of the line in banking fraud detection and prevention. Through these new partnerships, Rex Venture Group will be able to protect the business model from international fraud rings who either online, through US Mail or private Currier or by going to the offices to pass the fraudulent financial wire transfers, certified funds and or check are now being detected and more importantly arrested.

By working to break the backs of these international fraud rings in advance, Rex Venture Group’s banking partners and state and federal authorities will be able to work together, and may save some of the other unique bid auction companies by providing a list of banks or financial institutions the fraudulent paper is coming from. Once again collaboration is what helps the affiliates at the end of the day.

Between the new tech team being brought in to handle the high-end security and data issues, and the new bank fraud security detection and prevention, I think the affiliates will start to see some huge changes that will make their Zeek business easy and more fun to run and manage.

Now, we are still in the early stages, so anything can happen, but I do see this as a huge step forward.

Lexington Police Department P2C - provided by OSSI

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366 thoughts on “Zeek Rewards Update Covering The Most Of Current Developments Including The Arrest Of Dung Xuan Nguyen Yesterday”

  1. Pingback: Blog on making money online
  2. @Sandy,

    Thank you for the kind words… I get up early and go to bed a little later than some 🙂

    I agree 100% that understanding and compliance is the key. This is why they have launched the compliance course and the new marketing system.

    You have hit the nail on the head, and this is one of the issues I face as an advocate for network marketing. At the last RCD I made it clear I would start reporting publicly any ZR affiliate I find that is promoting Zeek in an unethical and out of compliance manner.

    When I see someone acting like this, it makes me think they do not care about any of the other affiliates or the company for that matter.

    Thank you for posting.

  3. Troy, greetings and thank you for all of your thoughtful, knowledgeable, and always professional responses! Where do you find the time?

    I am a new Zeek Rewards affiliate and I read your posts and those of the many other contributors with great interest. I consider it invaluable in my due diligence!

    I do think one of the biggest challenge for Zeek Rewards going forward is to do everything possibl t help ensure that affiliates understand what they are selling and promoting, and do so in complete compliance with all applicable laws and regulations. The company is clearly taking steps to help ensure this.

    Many critics as well as the most gun-hoe Zeek Rewards affiliates make the same mistake of creating spreadsheets and projecting out for days/weeks/months/years based on a set of assumptions that produce eye-popping results , and then use this as a way to "prove" it is nothing but a ponzi scheme or in the case of some affiliates to generate enthusiam in an effort to bring new affiliates on board. This is a mistake for both critics and affiliates alike, and for affiliates, it is a serious compliance violation that jeopardizes what the company is trying to accomplish!

    Both critics and affiliates also often make the mistake of confusing VIP points with $$$. Points are points, and when an affiliate makes a decision to buy VIP points with their $$$, and give them away to customers to promote the business, they no longer have the dollars! This is a business decision that I think can be a very effective way to promote the Zeekler Penny Auctions, but to think of the VIP point balance as $$$ owed to you is misguided and dangerous.

    What affiliates should focus on with gusto is promoting the core Penny Auction business that Zeekler has created. The continuing success and growth of this business is the ONLY way Zeekler Rewards affiliates can hope to see the kind of RPP cash awards continue into the future. If the core business does not flourish, there is no way the level of cash rewards currently being earned will continue!

  4. @Bob Jones,

    Although you wrote to John, there are a couple of clarifications which are needed.

    1. The company pays out of daily net revenue. If there is no daily net revenue because everything went to expenses, then on one gets a bonus. The rest of the compensation plan is calculated as part of the first 50% of the expenses of the company. So unlike a Ponzi, the money generated daily by the field forces activity pays those who are working.

    2. If the company doesn't show enough revenue outside of that generated by the affiliates qualifying for the commissions, like revenue from the auctions, stores, bid sales etc., then the company might be deemed a pyramid by the regulators.

    3. Nowhere does the company state they pay or guarantee any form of percentage to the affiliates. And from what I have seen out of compliance affiliates share if is only 1.4% or 1.5% they have calculated form their own personal experience. So where do you come up with the 2%?

    The company does award points daily, and if any qualified affiliated decides to convert some or all of their points to cash, then some form of calculation is performed, if there is a net positive revenue for the day.

    4. Well it is my understanding they paid cash for the two large pieces of real estate they just purchased, and paid cash for the network marketing company they just bought. So although, they may not have bottomless pockets, they sure seem to have deep pockets. I guess being 15 years old, debt free, and located in a town with very little overhead can have its advantages.

    5. And until their purchase of the new 27,000 sqft warehouse, they were drop shipping all products. Now they cut deals with some top brands and will be shipping from Lexington.

    Not trying to frustrate you, just want to add some facts as I know them.

    And, they already look different with the purchase of the new network marketing company. And by August 22nd 2012, they will look different again.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  5. Sure John,

    A ponzi scheme is when the money coming in from new investors is used to pay older investors.

    Yes Zeek stopped their members from calling it an investment but that doesn't change what it is.

    There is no evidence that this company is generating the enormous amount of money from the auctions they would have to be generating to pay 2% a day to all the members that have invested.

    There is no evidence this is a very highly capitalized startup that has bottomless pockets to go deep into the red to build a customer base like many public companies do.

    i don't know how many employees they have but to run an operation as big as one would have to be to source warehouse and ship the merchandise, and run an auction house that is doing the volume they would have to be doing, plus the IT dept, legal dept, customer service dept etc. would be enormous.

    So if not a ponzi where is the money coming from?

    As Troy has often said in 6 months if they are still alive they may look completely different. Maybe they are using a ponzi to fund growth and at some point rely on legit revenue sources. That could very well work for them but what will that do to all the people that invest in the months leading up to that point?

  6. @ K. Chang

    Zeek Rewards explains in the how to read/understand your VIP Bucket area that at the end of the day 50% of the profits are divided up between qualified affiliates , profits come from penny auctions, sister companies and member renewals.

  7. The STP Debacle has been on the Zeek Support Forum on what to do and has been for some time the company has known and is working on it, it might take a lil bit to find the post as affiliates continuley make new topic posts about the same thing before checking to see if the topics already being discussed and I am sure some people don't realize thats it states to do this on the Rules of the forum, but they have put out detailed instructions on what to do if you were one of the many who had used STP at the time and a email address that was dedicated to that problem.

  8. Chang: It seems you really have an ax to grind with Zeek. Why? Is it because you wish you were making the kind of $ that Zeek affilliates and it's owners are making?

    If the $ wasn't rolling in, I don't think you'd be spending all this time trying to put Zeek down. I too felt the way you seem to feel about Zeek (and most MLMs) at one time.

    But it had nothing to do with the facts. And it was before I listened to the marketing/compliance training video that EVERY MEMBER must complete and pass prior to joining. And I started listening to the conference calls. And talked to credible people I know who are doing this business successfully.

    There are bad apples in every walk of life who ruin things for companies, and that is true in the MLM business particularly.

    I think you're trying to gain a following by slamming mlm's, hoping to get enough traffic to your negative website to bring in some income. I'm all for entrepreneurialism and the free market system.

    But it's up to you what you spend all your time and energy thinking and writing about. Garbage in, and garbage out.

    Cynicism has it's price, and I don't think long term happiness or financial reward will be your end result.

  9. Here's some of the specifics we had trouble with in Howard Kaplan's metods. It was typically the "Schedule C, Line 2" type of explanations that caused trouble.

    Note: This is from memory, we had the discussions in April/May.


    He considered buying of bids to be a physical transaction of goods between a manufacturer or wholeseller to a retail store, as if they were physical products that could be sold in retail to the store and to its customers. The problem is that sample bids are not physical products, you can't store them in your warehouse (or in a closet, if you run a home based business).

    I checked this part, and the method is absolutely meaningless for an ordinary taxpayer.


    He considered the daily RPP to be "rebate" on the products you had bought. You first pay for the products, and then you get a rebate each day for 90 days.

    K. Chang checked this part, and pointed out that the line in Schedule C is meant to be unused, or to be used in a different way than as a rebate on products. I checked it too, but only superficially.


    Howard Kaplan's methods works if you follow the recipe step by step, and don't check whether the method is correct or not. The method doesn't make much sense if you're trying to check how correct it is.

    A result of the metod is that he taxpayers will get huge taxable incomes, but also huge deductions. So the method will show up nicely in the IDS, but the taxpayers will also have to pay taxes for income they never have received. Zeek has probably used this method to make the IDS look nicer than it really is, or for some other reasons. There's a few other possible motives involved here.

    My prediction is that this method will cause an audit of some taxpayers, and eventually an audit of Rex Venture Group, and the method will probably have to be changed for all the taxpayers affected by the method.

  10. @Troy

    Howard Kaplan's methods started from one specific viewpoint, the description he had got from Zeek. So he has probably tried to find solutions from that specific viewpoint, and found something "close enough".

    We had great difficulty understanding some of his methods, when some of us tried to follow his recipe, and tried to check it against the description from IRS. So I raised some red flags for the methods already in April/May, and have followed up the topic from time to time.

    Dan Matthews logics are much more easy to understand, and it can also be confirmed by other sources (e.g. wikipedia –> accounting methods –> cash principle, or something similar). Howard Kaplan's method will fail the tests for the two tax doctrines related to cash principle.

    The correct method for the IRS should NOT be to audit the individual tax payers individually. They will probably have to collect information from RVG instead.

    Howard Kaplan's methods pushed some tax problems over to the individual taxpayers. Some people had to pay taxes for money they never had received in 2011.

  11. Hi there, I am a affiliate who has been with Zeek Rewards since Feb, this year and was getting frustrated because I was having a hard time even getting free customers, so I was looking at the venues they give you to post on and considering the number affiliates posting on those classifieds sites it's not hard to see why I wasn't getting any response or new customers on my ads. So last month I started looking for new sites to post on, I take a couple hours a week to find other creditable classified sites to post on that are not so bogged down with other ads and and vastly started building my customer base to give my sample bids to.So as for retail customers try searching out classified sites that you can post on and get more traffic maybe that will help you? , Sometimes I do get busy and still use the venues in our back office to make it faster since its right there. So maybe that could help you gain some retail customers I know alot of other affiliates and spectators have this question and it tends to be a big one but I can see why alot of people do not have retail customers if alot of the affiliates are only using those few free sites listed. Just a idea for you if you haven't tried it, Just trying to help 🙂

  12. @Morten,

    Thank you for sharing the link to this conversation! It always amazes me how folks in the same profession can get to different opinions 🙂 I do know Zeek followed the advice of the Tax Attorney, so this will give some additional info to the field.

  13. We have had discussions about the tax issues on BehindMLM.

    4 comments from an accountant (Dan Matthews) clarified some issues = "For a 1099-MISC to be sent there has to be actual payment involved (money RECEIVED by the taxpayer)".

    Zeek's backoffice doesn't qualify for money received, the backoffice is not a bank account or anything similar. It will fail the two tax doctrines "Cash equivalence" and "Constructive receipt", the two doctrines that can be used to determine whether or not something is taxable income. So the 1099's are probably based on wrong tax methods, making the IDS become meaningless.

    For those familiar with the blog, the discussion (link to the 4 posts) can be found near the end of the comments in the article "Zeek Rewards admits $100,000 in fraud occurring"

    Direct link to 1 of the comments with link to the 4 others:

    We also had discussions in other threads, but that was mostly about how to file the expenses. Howard Kaplan's recipe was very confusing, so I'll guess people have used lots of different methods..

  14. @Bob Jones,

    Could you give me your definition of a Ponzi scheme and the facts that you used to make the claim that Zeek is one?

  15. @bob Jones,

    For clarity, I did not say the folks have not received the funds. I did state, they may not have requested all of their earnings. But, to my knowledge everyone has received access to all they have earned.

    As for the 1099 issue you bring up, that already happened for 2011. We did a whole editorial on the issue, because it caused some folks to freak out in a big way. It was kind of like a short sale, and then you get the 1099 for the difference. (before the laws changed).

  16. When I got in Zeek I was told there was a cap on VIP points at 1 million. Can someone verify this?

  17. @John

    John the fact that most people lose money in MLM or that most business fail for that matter has nothing to do with Zeek.

    It is a Ponzi Scheme! When people fail at network marketing or in a private business they can and do lose financially. But when they succeed the Government can't claw back the money!

    When this craps out all the Koolaide drinkers are going to be screaming the loudest. The Feds will get involved and they will go after the people that made a bunch of money and claw it back to help pay the suckers that got left holding the bag.

    Everybody says they are making money but most of them are only making money on paper because they are rolling it over or digging into their pockets for more. The only people that are making money are the ones that have taken out more than they have put in.

    Troy said in this thread people are getting 1099's for money they haven''t received. So on top of the claw back fear, you all better be concerned about the IRS. If and when this dies many will have received 1099's on earnings they never collected and never will.

  18. @e,

    I hear what you are saying. Problems buying bids. Problems getting paid. IT problems. No clear idea of where the money is coming from. Hacking issues. Zeek is a bad idea and should be avoided.

    I am going to pose a question that Peter Mingils likes to pose. “Compared to what?”

    Let’s talk about other network marketing programs, like Amway and MonaVie. I am going to agree that it’s clearer where the money is coming from in most of those programs. And they have better support systems, payment systems, information flow, less IT problems (they’ve had years to develop those systems and never had to deal with the kind of explosive growth Zeek has seen). I’d be the first to agree that if those things are very important to someone, they ought to go to a program like Amway or MonaVie.

    Of course, they will need to be prepared for the downside. They will need to buy and store products to be successful. They will need to give presentations. They will need to recruit and build a team (something that many will not be good at). They’ll be asked to make a list of everyone they know and introduce the program to them. This will alienate many of their friends and family. The likelihood that they will ever make any money will be significantly reduced (compared to Zeek), which will reduce the likelihood of finding others to partner with them .

    You would say that Zeek is a Ponzi scheme. As I understand the consequence of Zeek being a Ponzi scheme, it is that the money being paid to the affiliates is coming from other affiliates. So, one day there won’t be more affiliates and the existing affiliates will stop adding money. At that point, the enterprise will collapse. I don’t agree that this is the case, but I do agree that, no matter where the money is coming from, the day will come when the money stop or at least slow down significantly. Eventually, the auctions will lose popularity and the profit sharing will slow and eventually stop. And that makes Zeek a bad idea? “Compared to what?”

    There are a finite number of people in the world who will ever believe that the Acai berry is good for their health. And only a subset of that group will be willing to believe that the MonaVie product contains enough of that berry to be worth the price. Eventually distributors will be recruited who cannot increase the customer base. And when those distributors drop out, the people who got them in will drop out. And the whole structure will collapse.

    Pick any business out there and I’ll tell you why doing it is a bad idea. I’ll tell you why it will fail.

    What we all want does not exist. Every opportunity out there has problems. Everyone that I know in Zeek is making money and the end of that fact does not appear to me to be any time soon! When I look at the alternatives, I’ll choose the Zeek problems any day!

    I agree with Troy. Everyone who gets into Zeek needs to do so with a good understanding of the facts. Everything is not rosy. Eventually, a lot of money will be lost. But please. Don’t think that in any way makes Zeek unique.

  19. @Jaden,

    I said Finance or economics. The definition will be somewhat different for each. However, since I am not sure where you want to head, let me just cover it all.

    Under Section 2(a)(1) of the Securities Act of 1933, “unless the context
    otherwise requires,” the term “security” includes any note, stock, treasury stock, security future, bond, debenture, evidence of indebtedness, certificate of interest or participation in any profit-sharing agreement, collateral-trust certificate, preorganization certificate or subscription, transferable share,
    investment contract, voting-trust certificate, certificate of deposit for a security, fractional undivided interest in oil, gas, or other mineral
    rights, any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege on any security, certificate of deposit, or group or index of securities (including any
    interest therein or based on the value thereof), or any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege entered into on a national securities exchange relating to foreign currency, or, in general, any interest or instrument commonly known as a “security”, or any certificate of interest or participation in, temporary or interim certificate for, receipt for, guarantee of, or warrant or right to subscribe to or purchase, any of the foregoing.

    Rules and Regulations promulgated under the Investment Company Act of 1940

    Types of Investments. For purposes of section 2(a)(51) of the Act, the term Investments means:

    Securities (as defined by section 2(a)(1) of the Securities Act of 1933, other than securities of an issuer that controls, is controlled by, or is under common control with, the Prospective Qualified Purchaser that owns such securities, unless the issuer of such securities is:

    An Investment Vehicle;

    A Public Company; or

    A company with shareholders' equity of not less than $50 million (determined in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles) as reflected on the company's most recent financial statements, provided that such financial statements present the information as of a date within 16 months preceding the date on which the Prospective Qualified Purchaser acquires the securities of a Section 3(c)(7) Company;

    Real estate held for investment purposes;

    Commodity Interests held for investment purposes;

    Physical Commodities held for investment purposes;

    To the extent not securities, financial contracts (as such term is defined in section 3(c)(2)(B)(ii) of the Act entered into for investment purposes;

    In the case of a Prospective Qualified Purchaser that is a Section 3(c)(7) Company, a company that would be an investment company but for the exclusion provided by section 3(c)(1) of the Act, or a commodity pool, any amounts payable to such Prospective Qualified Purchaser pursuant to a firm agreement or similar binding commitment pursuant to which a person has agreed to acquire an interest in, or make capital contributions to, the Prospective Qualified Purchaser upon the demand of the Prospective Qualified Purchaser; and

    Cash and cash equivalents (including foreign currencies) held for investment purposes. For purposes of this section, cash and cash equivalents include:

    Bank deposits, certificates of deposit, bankers acceptances and similar bank instruments held for investment purposes; and

    The net cash surrender value of an insurance policy.

    Most common dictionary's definitions:


    in•vest•ment   [in-vest-muhnt] Show IPA
    the investing of money or capital in order to gain profitable returns, as interest, income, or appreciation in value.
    a particular instance or mode of investing.
    a thing invested in, as a business, a quantity of shares of stock, etc.
    something that is invested; sum invested.
    the act or fact of investing or state of being invested, as with a garment.


    Definition of 'Investment'
    An asset or item that is purchased with the hope that it will generate income or appreciate in the future. In an economic sense, an investment is the purchase of goods that are not consumed today but are used in the future to create wealth. In finance, an investment is a monetary asset purchased with the idea that the asset will provide income in the future or appreciate and be sold at a higher price.


    in•vest•ment (n-vstmnt)
    1. The act of investing.
    2. An amount invested.
    3. Property or another possession acquired for future financial return or benefit.
    4. A commitment, as of time or support.
    5. A military siege.
    6. Archaic
    a. A garment; a vestment.
    b. An outer covering or layer.


    Definitions (2)
    1. In finance, the purchase of a financial product or other item of value with an expectation of favorable future returns. In general terms, investment means the use money in the hope of making more money.
    2. In business, the purchase by a producer of a physical good, such as durable equipment or inventory, in the hope of improving future business.


    Investment has different meanings in finance and economics. Finance investment is putting money into something with the expectation of gain, that upon thorough analysis, has a high degree of security for the principal amount, as well as security of return, within an expected period of time.[1] In contrast putting money into something with an expectation of gain without thorough analysis, without security of principal, and without security of return is gambling. Putting money into something with an expectation of gain with thorough analysis, without security of principal, and without security of return is speculation. As such, those shareholders who fail to thoroughly analyze their stock purchases, such as owners of mutual funds, could well be called gamblers. Indeed, given the efficient market hypothesis, which implies that a thorough analysis of stock data is irrational, most rational shareholders are, by definition, not investors, but speculators.
    Investment is related to saving or deferring consumption. Investment is involved in many areas of the economy, such as business management and finance whether for households, firms, or governments.

    To avoid speculation an investment must be either directly backed by the pledge of sufficient collateral or insured by sufficient assets pledged by a third party.[original research?] A thoroughly analyzed loan of money backed by collateral with greater immediate value than the loan amount may be considered an investment. A financial instrument that is insured by the pledge of assets from a third party, such as a deposit in a financial institution insured by a government agency may be considered an investment. Examples of these agencies include, in the United States, the Securities Investor Protection Corporation, Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, or National Credit Union Administration, or in Canada, the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation.

  20. @Brad,

    Great question. All IDS must show the actual income earned. In other words whatever the company shows on their tax return as commissions and what it shows on the 1099 must be disclosed.

    And, you will never see or hear me start that logic has not been thrown out the window in many cases. As a matter of fact I have been known to call it a controlled flash mob, in a few cases. But I have also said the same thing about those who join ViSalus who have no clue what they are selling.

    Although, zeek is not an investment, when any ZR affiliate markets at anything close to an investment, they are doing two things. First they are out of company compliance and can be terminated. Second they could be committing several felonies… attempted fraud, against their prospect, Zeek and maybe the whole affiliate base. They are attempting to sell a purported security when in reality there is no such security, and who knows what other crimes.

    We know over 100K affiliates have not gone through compliance and that the company is now making it mandatory who everyone worldwide, so soon there will be no excuses for any affiliate to say, they did not know. Plus, if they are following the company policies they should be telling their prospcts the following…

    "IMPORTANT: The following paragraph MUST BE READ ALOUD whenever the ZeekRewards compensation plan is presented verbally or by telephone, or included in it's entirety when communicating in writing:

    "If you make a purchase from ZeekRewards you are purchasing a Premium eCommerce subscription or you are purchasing bids to give away as samples. You are NOT purchasing stock or any other form of "investment" or equity. You MUST actually use the bids that you purchase or give them away as samples to help grow your business. Affiliates who present our products to others in a misleading manner or in a way that leads the buyer to believe he or she is making an investment or purchasing equities will be terminated and all commissions and awards will be forfeited. Buyers MUST read the entire How It Works and Get Paid pages on the ZeekRewards website and the Legal Disclaimers."

    And let me correct you real quick. Zeek Rewards is NOT a "business opportunity" it is a network marketing opportunity. And yes there is a difference according to the FTC and most of the 50 States.

    Now back to Zeek specific. All the concerns you have, we all have voiced. Which is why there is constant change happening at Zeek. I have said from day one if changes were not made in a reasonable amount of time, that regulators could get involved. And at each suggestion that has been made by folks far smarter than myself, Zeek has implemented or started implementing. And I have also made it very clear, that based on the business model, and what I have seen as the future of Zeek, it will not look in 12 months, the way it looks today. Well not even in six months. 🙂

    As more and more qualifiers are added, the rogue affiliates will leave for different grounds.

    Now as for the numbers. Since Zeek has not published any numbers of how many affiliates they have, we do not know the real number. And since what I have seen shows the majority of affiliates are not qualified for the bonuses, then even the purported numbers shown do not add up. Most of the numbers do stem from the bad marketing at the launch of Zeek and since we all know first impressions are hard to overcome, Zeek has a ways to go.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  21. Quick question Morten, how do we identify you? Do you have a first and last name or are you going to hide behind a vale as well?

    I guess I can understand why you would hide, because I am most certain that you are worried that you might be terminated from Zeek???

    You seem to have some very passionate concerns with the Zeek Business model. Yet you are involved with Zeek as you have said that you have 70k points. What baffles me is your hostile tone when you "seek" "zeek" answers.

    Why are you still in zeek if you believe it to be a ponzi scheme? Please don't take offense to my comment, I just really have to ask, curiosity is killing me do you need the money so badly that you would actually cash commissions, daily cash rewards and have no pride in yourself or your convictions that you will continue to take money from something you don't believe in.

    Have some pride in your convictions, leave zeek and continue to seek your zeek answers and find a business model that better suits you.

    I'm sure most everyone that reads this forum is ready for just some good solid information and communication while we await the enhancements of Zeek. Ready the same ole stuff is getting overbearingly old.

    I come here to get answers, and hope that we can get updates that we can't get through Zeek, and it's just turned into a huge debate.

    Sometimes it takes me 2 days to read through all of it because I don't have the time to do it all in one sitting.

    Again Troy, Thank you for all you are doing. I have to be honest with you there was a time a few years ago when I wasn't sure how I felt about you – mostly because I listened to the wrong people, and didn't take the time to form my own opinion. I have learned so much with Zeek, Compliance and your site about the laws and what is and is not legal. I would not be as informed on these issues had it not been for Zeek, and you. I am appreciative and grateful and actually feel a little smarter, LOL 🙂

    Shirley Crawford

  22. @Brian Cattano

    Brian, you know pin isn't indicative of leadership or pay. Lot's of people aren't earning what they were but I've kept a tight group through the ups and downs and I know for a fact that I earn more than some Black Diamonds, way, way, way less than others. Who cares?

    If someone really know's how to build a Network Marketing business, they can join Amway today and make a fortune. Enough blaming MonaVie. When Zeek's moment in the sun has past, you'll be blaming them too and be on to the next deal. In MonaVie, the comp plan is better, the products are better, they ship them on time, pay people on time, etc. (that can't be said for zeek by the way. Not my opinion, the posts of zeek's own members on Facebook).

    Now Brian, it's my personal opinion that you are building in a Ponzi scheme. Troy has a different view…he sees things from the inside of Zeek.

    Payza, Ego Pay, Korean Banks, no support, IT problems, Credit Card issues, hacking issues, questionable business model, etc. Growing Pains? Hey where's Kirk Cameron! Heard a lot about Growing Pains!

    Some of the guys like OZ and KChang and Patrick Petty that comment on ponzi schemes have a lot of wisdom as does Troy.

    In closing, I've seen ponzis ruin people's lives, reputations and put a blight on our industry making our jobs harder.

    Blessings to you,


  23. @e,

    And I have total respect for where you were coming from, and if I were in your position I am pretty sure I would have done the same thing. We love our friends and team and do not want to see anyone hurt.

    And, far to many people are joining Zeek and all the unique bid auctions with no real idea of what they are joining or how to truly treat it as a business.

  24. @Jaden,

    Well, since I am not an affiliate in any company, let alone Zeek, that is a little hard to do. 🙂 I might suggest you take time to learn a little more about my background and passion for this profession. It will help you better understand my reporting.

  25. @Jaden ,

    How come advertising cost of the other company's aren't mentioned? I think that is a huge cost for the company's mentioned. Zeek pay's it's affiliate's to advertise.

  26. @Troy Dooly,

    If you are an affiliate of Zeekrewards, please go to your backoffice and skip step 2 or 3 in ad placement form and just click submit. I want to know if that will return an error message.

  27. Mike, I've admitted that I was overly critical of Troy. We've hugged and made up. Friends don't always have to agree. After getting to know him, I was a real a**hole. I take back the things I said even though I believe he could be a bit more middle of the road re: zeek.

    My MonaVie business isn't where it was 3 years ago…most aren't. My concern, one of my friends get's in, signs up one of his friends from church for $10,000. A week, a month later zeek get's shut down. Yeah, that kind of scenario is scary. If you know people who that has happened to, you won't believe the relationships it destroys. Your other point…having a strong MonaVie business allows me to comment frequently on Zeek :). I just got back from a one-on-one by the way…He asked me to attend a Zeek meeting tonight! 🙂 I politely declined.

  28. Troy, regarding the Income Disclosure Statement, is the money shown money actually paid out to affiliates from Zeek or is the money the total accumulation of money from the affiliates in their back office? For example, the average annual income in 2011 for a Manager was $2,774.56. Is the amount what was actually paid out or is it the total money accumulated through Zeek whether paid out or not? I bring this up, because I had an affiliate tell me the amount most likely portrays what was paid out but the affiliates have accumulated much more money in their back office, which have not been paid out/distributed yet because they reinvest in their business.

    I completely agree with Jaden regarding how Zeek Rewards is affecting my friendships. I am experiencing the same exact responses he is and we don't know each other and don't run with the same circles. Logic is out the window, the Income Disclosure Statement means nothing, and they keep saying well I am making significant amounts of money so everything must be fine because of Dr. Keith Laggos and Zeek's legal counsel. The moment I bring up comparing Zeek to others business like Jarden did, they immediately say Zeek is not an investment and it does not apply. I know Zeek is not a stock, bond, private equity, derivative, leveraged buyout, mutual fund, ETF, closed end fund, etc. It is a business opportunity. However, a stock is ownership in a business and that business can be analyzed whether it is publicly traded, privately held, or a sole proprietorship. That entity can be analyzed to determine if it is sustainable and that is as far as I am comparing a stock to Zeek. Again I know Zeek is not an investment.

    With 100,000+ affiliates who have taken the compliance course (400,000 to 500,000 worldwide), 300 or so auctions a day, very few customers actually buying bids vs. using free samples, cut and pasting an ad and placing it on the internet (3-5 minutes of work per day), Jarden's above points, being awarded 1% to 2% PER DAY (minus points being redeemed or terminated every 90 days), etc, how is Zeek's business model sustainable and not running the risk of being a ponzi scheme?

    It seems that in 2011 (7 months ago) Zeek had 44,693 affiliates around the globe and now there are 400,000 to 500,000 affiliates. They might consider an update and make their compensation arrangement extremely clear because there seems to be a huge disconnect from their disclosure statement and what Zeek affiliates promote. If the affiliates are out of compliance, then they should be busted for it. Beside the Income Disclosure Statement, I would like to hear from a Zeek affiliate that they receive income figures as displayed in the Income Disclosure Statement: In 2011 65.73% of U.S. affiliates received no income at all, the median annual income for all affiliates worldwide was $0, and the average annual income for all affiliates worldwide was $1,076.24.

  29. If the compliance program is as strong as stated, then it would be easy and a slam dunk. However, how many people at Zeek Rewards are monitoring compliance for over 100,000 affiliates who have taken the compliance course (estimated 400,000 to 500,000 affiliates worldwide)? I can easily find these type of videos, blog postings, and claims, which are out of compliance.

  30. @Morten,

    I did not say, I would not do a paid review. I just said no one has ever bought one.

    Not sure why you thought I was saying you were whining. If it came across that way, I am truly sorry, and ask for you to forgive me.

    And, when I do a review where I have received products/services or clothing from the company I do disclose fully those situations, as is required by the FTC.

    But, you make a great point. SInce we have never sold a paid review, I will have he team remove it from this site. Great catch!.

  31. @Jaden,

    I think everyone who tries to present any company as a pyramid, really means it looks like a triangle and those are two different things. As for the video, it is 100% out of compliance and can get this affiliate terminated.

    Here is the only approved way to market Zeek Rewards. http://yougetpaidtoadvertise.com/zeek101

  32. @Morten,

    1. The foundation of Zeek is the Zeekler Penny Auction, which was developed and implemented months before the Zeek Rewards marketing channel was developed. Once Rex Venture Group, came to the conclusion after split testing a couple of different penny auction models which one worked, they then went about creating the marketing channel.

    2. The money that flows through the income channels include, individual bid purchases, bid subscriptions, sales from the auctions, sales through each affiliates retail store, the Shopping Daisy, and soon to be shopping mall.

    3. I do disagree with you on the foundation of the business being the RPP. First of all, as I have pointed out several times, it does not look as if the majority of affiliates even qualify for the RPP bonus pool.

    4. I do not agree with any ROI as part of the compensation plan. I looked on the Zeek Reward website and did not see this as a part of any explanation. I did find the followng…

    "VIP ProfitPoints are paid by the company based on your Personal Volume (VIP Bid sales and purchases). From time to time the company may add Bonus Points to your totals during special incentive offers. Bonus Points are also provided to new affiliates so that they can experience the process without the necessity of making a sale or purchase. Bonus Points are tracked separately from VIP ProfitPoints. Bonus Point awards cannot be withdrawn as cash. Once you have received additional Bonus Points equaling the number you were given then the original amount drops off and the remainder becomes VIP ProfitPoints. You may then begin withdrawing cash commissions on the future daily VIP ProfitPoints if you choose.

    The company does not offer any guarantee of income to any Affiliate. Income is earned through the dedicated efforts of Affiliates making sales and good old fashioned hard work. Rex Venture Group, LLC guarantees to deliver any and all products or services sold to each purchaser in a timely manner. Cash Reward projections are based on expected revenues. Affiliates are strongly advised to only make purchases that they can afford without creating a financial hardship for themselves or their families."

    5. As for you asking questions on customers. Even the best on Wall Street ask for customer numbers, and most network marketing companies do not keep records in that manner. As I have explained, they do keep volume numbers. And if you are really looking for an answer, then that is the number you need to look for. And as with all or at least the majority of companies who launch a network marketing channel, the numbers are always from internal (affiliate) sales in the first 24 to 36 months. By the time the 3rd year rolls around, the balances tip and we start to see more sales volume than is needed to max the compensation plan. As an example, OxyFresh a 26 year old company sees $200.00 dollars in additional volume to ever $100.00 spent to qualify for the comp plan.
    Compare that against Burn Lounge, which only had $3.00 additional volume over what was needed to qualify for the compensation plan.

    6. You make a great point on the written reviews 🙂

  33. @Jaden,

    I can't give you a definite answer until I know if you are referring to a definition as it regards finance or economics. Once you clarify what you are looking for, I can provide an answer.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  34. @Troy

    You'll have to SHOW IT to people rather than telling them.

    As an example:

    When your "Advertise –> Paid reviews –> Written by us" leads to an order form, you're sending out signals contradicting your own statements about not doing paid reviews.

    And it's not "whining" when I ask questions about it or telling you about it. I'm pointing out a problem you probably didn't know about in your own marketing.

    You have another article here about Stephen R. Covey, the author of "7 habits". One of those habits is to identify problems within your own "control range", the area where you have direct control. Your own website is within your own "control range", but other people's impression is outside it.

    Does the advertising / paid reviews send the right signals to the readers? It partly sends the signal about "This guy can't be bought (for less than $1,000)".

  35. Dan wrote:

    "Ask Dawn if they have ever considered putting a cap on the “Green Money” no matter what the Revenue Share is for that day. That way in theory the people with a million points would be limited to say $5000 a day and that would actually increase the overall percentage distribution."

    I replied: Dan, members of the AdViewGlobal autosurf that mysteriously disappeared in 2009 after suggesting 1 percent a day and being pushed by members of the AdSurfDaily Ponzi scheme also advanced various theories about how AdViewGlobal could implement caps.

    Those theories certainly were interesting, given that they were advanced by folks who purported to be great Capitalists who represented MLM's best.

    If you take the time to walk back the various theories on caps in the various "programs" that plant the seed that participants will earn between 1 percent and 2 percent a day, they have one thing in common: They all advocate what — in the plain light of day — is nothing other than a Socialist redistribution scheme that would award the "have-nots" at the expense of the "haves."

    Dan wrote: "That way in theory the people with a million points would be limited to say $5000 a day and that would actually increase the overall percentage distribution."

    I replied: You've just advocated for a Socialist Redistribution scheme, Dan. The "haves" would be limited so the "have-nots" could enjoy an increase in the overall percentage distribution.

    Please understand: I believe you are a Capitalist and am in no way suggesting you are a Socialist. But I do believe you are confused, just like the Capitalists at AdViewGlobal were confused.

    On a closing note, the AdViewGlobal scheme collapsed in a pile of Ponzi rubble not long after the Capitalists advocated for a Socialist redistribution scheme.


  36. @Dan M.

    When you're talking about "hypothetical", you are way more hypothetical than I am?

    I have analysed the business model AS IT IS, and have not included hypothetical changes in the future. I believe this method is the most correct method to use, don't you agree?

    Future changes can clearly affect my hypothetical spreadsheet examples, but that was also explained in my comment:


    There are some variables that can fail:

    1. The daily percentage can change. The budget will partially correct itself for changes like that, making the daily RPP become higher or lower. I'll have to change the daily percentage manually, but all the other parts will correct themselves.

    2. The company can make changes to the VIP point balances for all affiliates, like a devaluation or something.

    3. The company can make changes to the system, making the VIP point balance become obsolete.

    4. The company can run out of money, making the potential withdrawal of money fail.

    5. The whole program or part of it can be terminated because of other reasons.


    So I have already covered some possible changes in the future, where my spreadsheet can fail. My examples would have become MORE hypothetical if I had added some hypothetical changes to the business model in the future, not less hypothetical.

    My method was correct as it was described.

    * the math was close to correct

    * the logics used were correct

    So I don't think you should use "hypothetical" as your main argument here, or attack it by introducing other hypothetical methods?

  37. @Jaden,

    Thanks for bringing this to the community. It brings some true focus to things 🙂

    A couple of things I will clarify for those who take the time to read it.

    1. Rex Venture Group, LLC, doesn't post any estimates on payouts. But they do have a published Income Disclosure Statement from 2011, which gives the accurate numbers. They also provide a complete online presentation for the affiliates to use when talking about income. I have read through the IDS, and watched the video. At no time does Zeek talk about or promote millions per day in commissions.

    2. I agree with the writer of this post that people are joining and not listening to reason from friends who have concerns. Instead like a Flash Mob, they listen to half trues, and just climb onto the wagon, even those they do not fully understand the direction the wagon is going, or when or how they should get off the wagon.

  38. @Troy Dooly,

    I found this post from "behindmlm" website and I would like to here your thought on this…

    "July 19th, 2012 at 1:09 am (Quote)
    I just wanted to add my two cents worth. I work for a large multi-national retail organization, which does Billions of dollars of sales ever year, however only a small portion of this is profit.

    After Zeekler has paid for the auction items, salaries, general administration, overhead, business taxes, etc, what is left is Net Profit.
    Examples of large companies net profit;

    Wal-Mart 3.31%
    Amazon 0.99%
    Home Depot 5.81%
    Quibids net daily profit is 5-10%
    http://ycharts.com/companies/WMT/profit_margin http://ycharts.com/companies/AMZN/profit_margin http://ycharts.com/companies/HD/profit_margin http://www.quibids.com/en/quibids101/blog/7-Does-

    Net Profit Margin(or Profit Margin) is defined as: A ratio of profitability calculated as net income divided by revenues, or net profits divided by sales. It measures how much out of every dollar of sales a company actually keeps in earnings.
    Profit margin is very useful when comparing companies in similar industries. A higher profit margin indicates a more profitable company that has better control over its costs compared to its competitors.

    Profit margin is displayed as a percentage; a 20% profit margin, for example, means the company has a net income of $0.20 for each dollar of sales. Also known as Net Profit Margin.

    Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/profitmargin….
    Many estimates that I have seen is that Zeekler is paying out $1,000,000 per day in order to achieve this, Zeekler would have to sell a hell of a lot more than a $1,000,000 per day.

    If we use QuiBids daily net profit of 5-10% as posted online we see that Zeek has to actual sell, $10,000,000 to 20,000,000 dollars per day to achieve a net profit of $1,000,000 per day. This is something my friends don’t listen to, they regurgitate the kool aid, that Zeek shares 50% of their profit, the business is legit, it pays, join and find out!

    I am in the supply chain business of a multi-national company. You can not ship this much product with 12 people, it takes my company over 600 people to do this and that is just the supply chain. Now add in the 200-300 buyers, inventory analyst, merchandise mangers and all of their assistants you quickly see that Zeek would need 800 to 900 people to just handle the supply chain.

    On top of this you will need up to 100 IT professionals. When I refer to the supply chain it starts with the business relationship with each vendor, placing orders, receiving goods at your warehouse and shipping those goods to the end customer.

    If you stop and look at how much money they would have to make to achieve $1,000,000 in profit per day and it would have to grow exponential every day, you quickly come to only one conclusion. This is a Ponzi.

    I just don’t understand why so many people have closed their eyes to the basic truths of business and allow themselves to be sucked into this and other schemes.

    My friendships of over 25 years are now on rocky ground because my friends are over enthusiastically trying to get me in, but get hostile when I try to point out the flaws in their so called ‘legit’ business, I’m just being negative, just try it, you will make money then you will see. Is the only response I get.
    I’m tired of the rose colored glasses outlook that all of the zeekheads are portraying and now I have friendships on the line because of it."

    From user " concerned friend"

  39. @Troy


    Respectfully, this is where you get it wrong. Since the unique bid auction is the basis for the whole business model, then you have to look at the foundation of the business model to determine if there is a validity to the ponzi theory.


    The foundation of a business will usually be the activities that brings in most revenue, directly or indirectly. You don't disagree in that, do you?

    In Zeek, the foundation can easily be the money coming in from affiliates rather than from the auctions. I'm talking about real money here, not "points". So you can exclude RPP used to reinvest in sample bids.

    The most significant part of the business model doesn't seem to be the unique bid auctions, the so called "compounder" seems to be more significant — the system where affiliates put money IN and where the VIP points earns a daily ROI for 90 days, and where the affiliates eventually can start to withdraw money after some time.

    The "compounder" has much more incentives for putting money IN than the auctions. It seems to be the most significant stream of money coming into the system, or what we call "the foundation of the business".

    I have been asking several questions about external customers for more than 6 months, and very few have come forward with real customers. So it looks very much like affiliates paying themselves with their own money, or a distribution of money from new affiliates to the old ones.

    The income stream from affiliates paying money In is very clear, and the other income streams are vague and unclear, and they seem to be too insignificant to support payouts on a sustainable basis. Remember my spreadsheet example, where my VIP balance would double each 100 day?

    Are you SURE you have identified the correct "foundation" here?


    When it comes to paid reviews, you should probably remove that option from your price list, to be more compliant with marketing rules. It's meaningless to offer a service if you never have had an intention to sell it or deliver it. You are only sending misleading signals to the market when you have services like that in your price list.

    From my viewpoint, your price list gave the impression that you are willing to accept writing paid reviews for companies. And it's not my viewpoint that has failed here, because you clearly have that option in your price list.

  40. @ Frightened Affiliates,

    One clarification. Zeek said they are going to move away from cutting checks. They did stop cutting checks while they were transferring banks.

    And I expect there may be many new announcements coming out of the Red Carpet Day.

    Many things have been going on in the last month, as Zeek worked towards getting everything ready before the RCD.

  41. @Dan M.,

    You are correct! And I think it some cases the critics are so focused on their mission, they do not even realize that in some areas they have been heard and changes have been made. Now, as for the dull, negative, dissolution crybabies, well… I will never understand them, because I have never gone around whining all the time.

  42. @Troy

    I think the main point that the critics are missing here is that the Rex Venture Group business model and the zeek rewards business model will not be the same as it is today in a years time, or in 6 months for that matter. So in the case of Mortein, for example, where he talks about spread sheets, this is purely hypothetical analysis that will not have any bearing or relevance in future because zeek rewards future business model will not be the same as todays. The same can be said for any other criticisms of the model. What they dont understand is that the company is dedicated to improving systems and is more than likely liaising with the regulators to ensure that they are moving in the right direction. Whilst I appreciate that people may have some concerns, Is this so difficult to understand?? Or are they just conveniently turning a blind eye to this fundamental point?

  43. In fact thinking about it if Zeek put a cap on the total daily or weekly payout from the "green money" then that would really encourage people to eventually focus on the other six ways to get paid through Zeek. Maybe I would actually go to the shopping daisy platform and learn about it or "heaven forbid" my retail store.front.

    Who knows I might really start to focus on customers more and selling them the products that they really want.

  44. I would feel a whole lot more comfortable if Zeek would come out with something like what Mona Vie has as far as a cap on daily or weekly payouts. That way you can still earn an insane amount of money but you still won't get into the billion dollar senerio.

    Ask Dawn if they have ever considered putting a cap on the "Green Money" no matter what the Revenue Share is for that day. That way in theory the people with a million points would be limited to say $5000 a day and that would actually increase the overall percentage distribution.

    Look I think anyone can live on $5000 a day don't you.

    Maybe a limit on "green Money" but unlimited on "black Money"

    What do you think???

  45. To pay commissions Zeekler no longer provides physical checks, has removed NXpay as an option for payment (though on July 6th founder Paul Burks said he is "expecting to be able to restore nxPay as a payment option in the next few days", STP does not appear to be coming back soon from its "short break from maintenance", and Payza says they "apologize, but withdrawals by bank transfer to United States are not supported". This is new to Payza btw.

    So right now we have one way to get paid and that is through a check sent from Payza am I correct? You would think Zeek would get their payment processing issues taken care of if not for the affiliates who they don't care about, at least so new members can join.

    If I sound upset it is because well, I am. (Not trying to take it out on you Troy)

  46. @Mike,

    It is true some folks are just negative. But all in all, what I have found is most folks are truly concerned about friends. And this goes for the critics inside and outside of the network marketing community.

    When relationships are involved, emotions run high, and when I think about how I might feel in their shoes I realize I might be just as frustrating.

    I admit it is tough sometimes because it can be draining. However, I know that by supporting the community and working to find answers, and providing support, even when it is a small amount, I know we are doing the right thing.

    e aka Erik, is a prime example of someone who truly does love his team, and his friends. MonaVie as a whole has taken some hard hits over the last few years, and some of their people are in Zeek. If I were in Erik's shoes I am sure I would do everything in my power to fight to protect my team.

    I do agree that every company has weaknesses and we all need to work to raise the standards at both the corporate and field level.

    I truly love this community, even those who disagree with me. I believe this is what America was built on, and I will do all I can to continue to support the Right's of everyone to voice their opinions.

    Thank you for adding value to this community.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  47. @Morten,

    I have never had anyone buy a "Paid Review" at all! Mostly because they know we will pick up the press releases and I do the news daily on the Home Business Radio Network where I cover it all anyway.

    Now as for the Zeek question. I have answered that so many times, I can't count. If you want to know the answer, find the right video and watch it, or take the time to read through the comments.

    Not the "penny auction niche" the "unique bid auction niche" penny auctions are just one type, reverse bid auctions are the other. And if Zeek was the only company then it would be Zeek, but since there are DubLi, BidiFy, Bids That Give and Zeek, and they all have the same basic business model, you are 100% I do focus on the whole picture, and not just one company. I also cover all of the companies inside the whole niche.

    Now, when we are talking about something exclusive to any of the companies, then I do stay totally focused on the issue inside the company. But when the issues is niche wide then I make sure folks fully understand it is not company specific.

    Respectfully, this is where you get it wrong. Since the unique bid auction is the basis for the whole business model, then you have to look at the foundation of the business model to determine if there is a validity to the ponzi theory. So, again if Zeek was the only company in the unique bid auction niche, you would be correct. But since there are more than one company, then once it can be detemrined that unique bid auctions are solid, then we would need to compare the actual compensation structures to see if there are any flaws in them. Prime example I found a flaw in BidiFy's compensation and called them out on it. After several months of consulting with their legal and accounting teams, they were able to figure out a way to fix it, to make it legal in North America. The same rigns true with Zeek.

    And I always find it funny about the question of transparency with Zeek or any company. Transparency is great and I support it. The reality is, that no private company has to make their numbers public. It the auctions the foundation and must be a large part of the overall revenues? They do at this time. But, with all the conversation going on about the new shopping mall then it could be that like DubLi the auctions will never be a hing part of the overall revenue stream from customers.

    Sadly, the critics, only want to look at one part of the overall business model. With several different income streams already in place, and Rex adding more, the critics will just have to continue waiting for some of there answers.

    Living An Epic Adventure,


  48. you can use a gift card to upgrade but you have to pay your subscription manually or you can use a prepaid visa/mastercard also and also you can fund your Solid Trust Pay account with a prepaid visa/mastercard.i have a downline in mexico and i buy them gift cards and it works.

    Hope this will help & this is confirmed by Zeek Rewards

  49. Instead of using the words "compound" or "compounder" what do affiliates call the it?

    VIP points X RPP = ?

    Does Zeek have a replacement word for it?

    Sorry I have not taken the compliance course.

  50. "Compounder" was brought up at behindmlm. I cant remember the name of the guy who started using it in early 2011. But he is very high up in the food chain.

    If you do search compund and zeek, you will find many many more sites using the terms "compound and "compounder" Which pretty much proves that Don F above didn't think up the words.

    Now when someone brings up those words you dont have to question them about it.

  51. @Troy

    I followed the link to the video "Troy comes clean …". I haven't read the 78 comments there, because of late at night where I live.

    "Coming clean" is fair enough, but I believe you should clarify some details. Some of the companies you write reviews on are probably paying customers? You have a price list under the "Advertise" menu, with "Paid review written by us — $1000", "1 available every 1 day".

    Common business ethics will say that you first of all will have to take care of the customer's interests? In that case, you can end up having to sacrifice the interests of other groups, when there is a conflict between the different interests?

    By the way, are some of the ZeekRewards reviews PAID for by the company, directly or indirectly?

    Another issue is that you INSISTS on calling Zeek for "the penny auction niche", answering question from that specific viewpoint instead of answering what people really asks about.

    The most serious critique (about Zeek) is related to Ponzi scheme issues, not to penny auction issues. So penny auction answers aren't exactly meaningful to some of the questions.

    Zeek could easily solve that problem themselves by being transparent about the revenue generated by the auctions. Instead they have spent tens of thousands of dollars trying to "outweight" that issue with positive information.

    Most critics don't believe the tiny penny auction site is able to support payouts like those I showed in my spreadsheet example, with hardly any real customers at all (or affiliates being to shy to tell about them if they have paying customers?).

  52. @gabe

    I just realized are you talking about zeekler customers or are you talking about zeek rewards affiliates because i am referring to zeekler.

  53. @gabe

    Did you read his post or mine? what i said was that he kept saying how I am bias but in reality everyone is so it is a moot point. I can not honestly tell you that i know the numbers however i will say this. I have more customers of zeekler that they joined from my ads then ones that i gave bids to personally. I also know other's who have the same thing as i do in that respect. Although i will agree there are a lot of customers who are just given bids too. You have to remember it is kind of like direct mail for a company. If you send out 100 letters to people for your business you may only get 1 or 2 responses. However if you are doing thousands and thousands of these that 1 or 2 becomes pretty big amount

  54. Blue Diamond Executive hi $25,354 low $2,596 avg.$8,536 working 10 hours per week. I don't believe e is making this with monavie. It looks like he is spending more time following this zeek deal than he is doing his juice business.

  55. Troy I don't know why you work your butt off for these negative people. Take for example e it doesn't matter what the answer is he will never give up his juice business and join zeek. When I was in monavie they had each rank stand up and they talked about how much money each rank was making, the figures didn't match any of our ranks. Like a silver just barely paying for their juice every month. I heard their top dog talk about m mun and and stand in front of everybody and say he could lick anthrax. All of this negative stuff about zeek is not provable. I think they are loosing people to zeek and they are scared.

  56. I am a new Zeek affiliate from VA. When I tried to make a CC payment to upgrade my payment wouldn't go through…to Korea, due to anti-fraud protection from my bank. I cannot use two of the e-wallets from Zeek (Solid Trust and Payza) as they are based in the UK and are not licensed to do transaction out of the state of VA. My only recourse, based on Zeek customer support is to mail a cashier's check or money order to the Lexington, NC address. Would be cool if they could bring PayPal onboard.

  57. @e,

    Great questions…

    1. Having bought media buys on Fox News where I just saw the most current ad, and it was running on O'Reilly, the cost is a minimum of $10K per spot. I have seen the ad on Fox News, Fox Business, Spike and Discovery so far. Outside of their TV spots, I do not know what other marketing they might be doing.

    2. I am not sure on this second question. In doing some simple math, I would say that it might be close. But I am going off of the figure of 100K affiliates which have gone through compliance, because I am not sure of the total affiliate figure. But my math is only subjective because I do not have the finite answer form either company for a finite answer.

    A year ago, before all the credit card and banking issues, the auction was running between 300 and 500 a day. As an added note, the first shipments of products have been bought and are either at the new 27K sqft warehouse or on their way, which will allow Zeekler to increase the auctions. Part of the slow down with the auctions was the fact, the credit card fraud was so bad, the CC processors closed off the credit cards for a while.

    Dawn and others have promoted Zeek as the fastest growing company in network marketing, but I will ask for the numbers. I will respectfully disagree with you though. In most cases the company NEVER reports their numbers (unless they are public.) Instead they allow the field to promote propaganda. Then when the numbers do come out by DSN (Direct Selling News), they are always smaller than the propaganda. 🙂

    The closest thing we have right now is the 2011 numbers on the Income Discloser Statement. I will ask the new CFO if Zeek will be producing an updated IDS soon.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  58. @gen3benz,

    🙂 Well both of these brought a laugh.

    1. The facebook page has four "likes" evidence that it is not high on anyone's radar.

    2. The video has 80 views since March of 2012.

    But, I am glad you brought them to the public to review. I will pass these on to Zeek Corporate for review.

    And no, I do not sit around Googling anything Zeek. I have a business to run and it doesn't include trying to find as many combinations of words or short-tail phrases about Zeek that I can. 🙂

    But since you and others do, why not become part of the solution and when you find things totally out of compliance, do what you did today. Write a comment on my blog or send an email and I will gladly pass it on to the Zeek Squad to handle. You say you want to protect folks, this will prove you really do want to help and show the community you care.

    Great work!!!

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  59. 5. I think the "compounding" he is referring to is how zeek was sold to affiliates in 2011. Now that compliance lawyers have come out and said its not allowed, people stopped using those words. Although the business model hasn't really changed.

    Have you not googled Zeek rewards compounder?

    facebook page…

    There is even a youtube vid from mar 21 2012 with the word "compounder"

    These affiliates must not have taken the compliance course. Not allowed to use compound, ROI, or anything else that has to do with investment.

  60. Troy, you say:

    "The main difference is that some in the unique bid auction niche have decided to pay independent marketers to promote their unique bid auction houses, instead of spending millions in media buys, such as QuiBids is doing right now."

    You say Quibids does 8000 auctions a day. Zeek does about 140 or so a day.

    1. Do you have any idea how much Quibids spends in marketing? (I honestly have no idea)

    2. Do you believe Quibids spends in marketing more than Zeek pay's their affiliates for placing their 1 ad a day.

    How many zeek auction's were there a year ago compared to today? Is there marketing strategy actually growing the penny auction business?

    Can you ask Dawn how much volume Zeekler does a month? No reason it should be a secret. If they're proud of their business and growth, they shouldn't have any problem reporting their numbers. Every network marketing company does when things are good…"fastest to a billion" etc.

    I really think getting the answer to that question would clear up a lot of the questions regarding the legitimacy of the business model. If you find that Zeekler is doing a million a month in volume (cordless screw drivers, alarm clocks, gift cards, lava lamps etc.) yet paying out 20+ million a month in commissions, the business model is suspect and it would be the worst marketing campaign in the history of business.

    Quite frequently you mention the other shopping sites…I'm guessing that's a negligible amount of volume.

  61. @Bob Jones,

    First let me say thank you for stopping by and sharing your thoughts. I do want to direct you to a video I did on this very subject. I am neither defending nor promoting the unique bid auctions, be it Zeek, BidiFy or DubLi. http://mlmhelpdesk.com/troy-dooly-comes-clean-on-

    Now with that out of the way let's take a look at your thoughts.

    I do understand your thoughts on Real Goods and Services being made and consumed. Which is the very essence of what is behind any entertainment business. Someone creates the entertainment, and others consume it. The unique bid auctions are built on this very philology and math theory. Which is one reason that since 2009 I have been researching this niche, trying to wrap my hands around it. I finally realized that although each company uses a multi-level compensation structure to pay their affiliates, I do feel the model fits direct marketing vs. direct selling.

    There are plenty of companies which market a service/ product that you and I might not enjoy or even understand. And yet billions of dollars change hands and in several cases millions of real dollars are earn in virtual products, services and even real estate. This has happened in second life, farmville, and mafia wars as three examples. And I haven't even addressed the millions spent on advertising inside of WOW (World of War) and many other gaming communities.

    The main difference is that some in the unique bid auction niche have decided to pay independent marketers to promote their unique bid auction houses, instead of spending millions in media buys, such as QuiBids is doing right now.

    Again you can review my video if you have not already to get a far better understanding why I am willng to help support the affiliates in all companies, not just the unique bid auctions.

    Thank you for sharing and adding value to this community.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  62. Oh please, with a nickname like "affiliate" you're clearly in no position to talk about BIAS. I have no reason to be biased, Im not affiliated with any MLM at all.

    I do apologize for hijacking your question though, it was meant to be a separate question of my own not a reply to yours.

    I can assure you however that my question about amount of real customers does need answering and although Troy has tried, he has yet to answer them -partly because he may not know the figures. It is one of the main criteria that will judge the longevity and also the legality of the business.

  63. Troy I have read and respected you for years and for the life of me I can't understand why you are defending what I believe is a Ponzi Scheme.

    I hate to break the news to everyone but dollar bills don't split like cells and multiply on their own. Wealth is actually created by a real goods and services being made and consumed.

    Forget the "Investment Scheme" laws they are trying to tap dance around just somebody try to explain the math.

    You have all the money affiliates are promised on the money they have invested into this thing plus the fantastic profit share and then you also have all the commissions for the recruiting of new suckers.

    Where is the money going to come from? Well the koolaide drinkers would tell you the profits from the auctions. Give me a break!

    Everybody is giving away free bids and affiliates are all over the internet teaching each other how to create free email accounts and give the bids away to fake people.

    Everyone in the deal is bragging how much money they are making. So who is losing all this money in these auctions to fund all this nonsense? Are the affiliates supposedly losing back more than they are making on the investment side or are these obscene profits coming from the fake people that were given the free bids?

    If the auctions are that profitable what does the company need your money for, why would they pay out all this money and not keep it for themselves?

    They apparently have no problem finding people to take the free bids on their own because they have been selling them to the affiliates.

  64. @Don F,

    Thank you for stopping by and adding value to the conversation and our community.

    I do have a few questions for clarification.

    1. What multiplier are you referring? The RPP which I am sure you are talkng about, is based on the growth of the revenue. If the gross revenue goes down, then the net evenue will go down, and the amount of the split placed in the RPP will also go down. Which tells us that each share in the RPP will be worth less. If the revenue continues to rise, then the RPP grow will rise. (And I am by no means stating the company doesn't have caps on the pool, I am just giving a basic example.)

    2. The RPP is one small part of the compensation program. The main piece is the matrix. And in the case of Zeek, they did not buy any software. Paul Burks is a long time network marketing compensation programmer, who started his career working for others.

    3. You are close on the RPP. If the revenue of the company goes down, then the RPP would eventually be at $0.00. It is created never to go negative. So unlike a bank which can go upside down, because the liabilities can outweigh the assets. Zeek, runs fully on the daily revenue.

    4. By the way, banks can't print more money. The only organization who can print money is the U.S. treasury, which then loans the newly printed money to the Federal Reserve, a privately held corporation owned by it's member companies, which just happen to be a handful of very old banks in America. The Board of Directors, do allow the U.S. Government to appoint a Chairman of the fed.

    5. What is this "compounding" factor you are using?

    Again, thank you for adding value.

  65. @Frightened Affiliate,

    I can't give all the details until Zeek publishes them. I can say that the 0 – 10,000 in points qualifier as it has been explained to me, will not change. As the individual affiliate's business grows, then the customer qualifier will also grow. In working with another company a few years ago, who used this same business model, it not only helped to give a solid base of customers to each affiliate, they saw their personal monthly recurring income not only grow monthly, it was steady growth. At that time the average customer transaction ran around $8 to $12 per transaction and each customer made several transactions per month.

  66. @ad,

    Yes, when they get this off the ground, I do think it will clearly define customers, because the whole focus is customers, not building the network.

  67. @Morten,

    Not trying to create or debunk any theory with the input of "Free Affiliates", just wanting to show this is a huge denominator that should be taken into account. Sure some of the free affiliates will upgrade. However, since the business model is created around the average person being able to earn some part-time money with personal effort, and not from recruiting, there is also a good possibility many of these folks may not upgrade, but continue to earn income from personal sales and the matrix, not from the bonus pool.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  68. @Troy

    You presented a theory for me in the other thread, a theory about Free Affiliates being the real customers, or free affiliates being the ones most actively selling retail bids and VIP bids to customers.

    As far as I know, Free Affiliates are only a part of the recruiting model, where people can sign up as Free Affiliates for 60 days, before they upgrade to Silver, Gold or Diamond. It's a "try before you buy" offer.

    From memory:

    Free Affiliates receives 100 Bonus Points, and they will generate daily profit for 60 days before they retire, just like the VIP points, but they will be retired after 60 days instead of 90. After 60 days the Free Affiliate will have generated around 130-140 points, and they will be converted to VIP-points if he upgrades to Silver, Gold or Diamond. He will also have to pay $10 for a minimum purchase of bids.

    My description doesn't have to be 100% accurate, the main point was that Free Affiliates are newly recruited "try before you buy" affiliates, and can either upgrade or quit. They probably can't withdraw money.

    Your theory popped up in a situation where people were discussing the matching VIP points, e.g. affiliates can sign up family members as customers, buy 1000 VIP bids, pay for them through the family member, earn $200 in commission and 1000 matching VIP points. This will eventually become a loss for Zeek because of the matching VIP points.

    But here you had a theory that most of those customers were signed up by Free Affiliates, or were Free Affiliates themselves?

    The theory CAN explain how Zeek can make a profit, but is the theory believable?

    * "The ones who haven't paid for membership yet will be the most eager to buy bids and sign up retail customers".

    * "The less incentives people are offered, the more eager they will be to spend money".

    From other affiliates we know that the main motive for buying retail/VIP bids through family members or friends is the matching VIP points and the 20% commission. They have a relatively rational motive for using this method. But you believe in less rational people being the most eager customers?

  69. Hi Troy,

    My user Id is (Edited by Troy) on the 23rd of June i bought bids through st pay 140, and they never showed up in my account. st pay said Zeek would manually enter them. I submitted a ticket on the 25th with all the info trans# etc. All i was told was i have been added to the list. 3 weeks later still nothing.I know your not an employee of Zeek, but I would be very gratefull if you could forward this to the right person, I sure can’t get a hold of anyone. Thank you for your help

  70. Hi Troy,

    My user Id is 1vcw on the 23rd of June i bought bids through st pay 140, and they never showed up in my account. st pay said Zeek would manually enter them. I submitted a ticket on the 25th with all the info trans# etc. All i was told was i have been added to the list. 3 weeks later still nothing. I would be very gratefull if you could forward this to the right person, I sure can’t get ahold of anyone. Thank you for your help

  71. @Steve

    Which facts are you looking for? Zeek is very little transparent when it comes to financial details.

    I have asked people about the income streams, like the FSC-stores — "How much did you sell for last month or last 3 months?". I'll guess you know the answer?

    So I stopped asking about the FSC stores, and started to ask questions about paying customers in the penny auctions, customers using their own money paying for bids. Please come forward if you have any?

    I have identified a few customers in 6 months. One of them had spent $260 four months ago, one was a free customer but didn't like the auctions after an initial try, 3 was only a story from one guy about some friends he BELIEVED had paid for bids, but I accepted the story as true.

    Research like that is also facts. The number of paying customers you have yourself is clearly facts, don't you agree?

    So you have probably read lots of facts without recognizing it as facts. Then maybe it's time you start recognizing what you're reading?

    The spreadsheet I used was facts. It showed how a VIP balance would grow with 100% reinvestment, with stable 1.5% daily profit share for up to 1800 days. It was theoretical and calculated, but it was still facts. Troy disagreeed in it, but he couldn't defend his own arguments when I compared it to budgeting..

    The lack of resistance you see here is also facts. Under normal conditions, there would be tens of affiliates coming forward with real customers.

    So don't come here and claim "no facts". And please provide us with the facts you have about your own paying customers, the ones who uses their OWN money to pay for bids?

  72. yeah thanks for the clear up.. But do you think the new qualifications strategy or zeebates would take care of the clean definition of customer side?

  73. Troy,

    Can you give us a more detailed description of what the new qualifiers for Zeek will be and when these will be mandatory? From what I understand the qualifiers, in essence, will require affiliates to recruit more affiliates. Am I correct?

  74. I think any educated person who understands how to operate a calculator knows full well that Zeek cannot continue at this multiplier indefinitely.

    All of these profit sharing compounding programs are using the exact same software used by ASD. They take the basic program and make modifications to it. They are designed to operate like a bank. If people keep their deposits in the bank, the bank makes money and the depositors get a few table scraps.

    However, the banks can also print their own money. Zeek does not have that luxury. In both cases, if everyone wanted their money out, the banks and Zeek would collapse. But due to the structure of the compensation plan, the profits are leaked back to the member slowly giving leverage to the company. The attrition of previous points also adds tremendous leverage to the system.

    I believe as long as new people continue to bring funds into Zeek, it will be able to float enough cash flow to remain in business. However, at some point, the numbers simply compound out of control and at that point, the company would have to make drastic changes to the pay structure. Eventually the profit sharing compounder will have to be removed and the program converted into a standard MLM format. Of course, when that time comes, the company will probably not survive much longer. As for now, I believe if you do the math, Zeek can hold on at least another year before the numbers begin to turn upside down.

  75. @Ad,

    Not sure what is confusing? The compensation plan is sustainable. Whether a compensation plan is sustainable or not, has nothing to do with wanting to make sure there is the right mix of additional revenue above the minimums needed to qualify for the comp plan.

    And his point is valid! If you review all I have written, along with Kevin Thompson is the gray area inside direct sales, where there is no clean definition of customer. Until we can get the courts to agree on the issue, the goal is to always make sure there is plenty of sales above and beyond just qualifications.

    And at no time did I say "there is not enough revenue from Zeekler", but I did agree there needs to be plenty of revenue. Knowing that QuiBids is doing around 8000 auctions daily, and Zeekler is only around 300, we know the amount of auctions need to raise substantially just to take over #1 in the penny auction niche.

    Hope that clears everything up. 🙂

  76. @Jack,

    I do not believe they have made any details public yet. That more than likely will come next week at Red Carpet Day. Zeek loves to let the RCD folks know the details since they put out the energy to travel to the events.

  77. @Joseph,

    If you go to the bottom you will see where they talk about 2, 4, 6, 8, customers 🙂 They have not released all the specifics, I figure that will come next week at the Red Carpet Day.

  78. Hi Troy,

    I've been reading the news and try to keep up with what's going on with Zeek. I do know they are going to implement new qualifiers and already put some in place like the PRC's. But I haven't seen anything on the news site that talks about "0 to 10,000 points there is not any change"

    Can you point me in the right direction? I can't find it anywhere.

    Also, did you ever speak to Zeek about contacting STP to find out when the site might possibly be back up so the affiliates can withdraw their commissions?

    Lastly, I know Zeek said they will have better payment options soon, but do you know how soon?


  79. @Troy

    Troy I was curious about the new qualifiers myself. I have been through all of the articles and can't find anything that actually lists what they are.

    I did find one article that touches briefly on what the program is about, but it does not give any breakdown or list of what these qualifiers are. I know in one of your replies above you mentioned that these qualifiers won't affect affiliates who have less than 10,000 VIP points, however I have not been able to find anything in writing that states as such.

    Here's the article: http://zeekrewardsnews.com/2012/06/zeebates-all-i

  80. Went were you said did not see anything about what will have to be done to meet the qualifiers. What I’m saying is there are people that’s been in zeek for a while that knows about the new qualifiers and they are signing up people without telling them.

    When this happens the new affiliate has been lead to believe that all he has to do is post an ad to earn which is true for now but zeek has not told them this is temporary. The new qualifiers should be visible to new prospects so they can choose if this will be right for them before they buy thousands of bids then they are blind sided with new qualifiers that they weren’t told about. They may not have signed up had they known of the new qualifiers that zeek knows about but did not make the info available to the new affiliate.

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

  81. Went were you said did not see anything about what will have to be done to meet the qualifiers. What I'm saying is there are people that's been in zeek for a while that knows about the new qualifiers and they are signing up people without telling them.

    When this happens the new affiliate has been lead to believe that all he has to do is post an ad to earn which is true for now but zeek has not told them this is temporary. The new qualifiers should be visible to new prospects so they can choose if this will be right for them before they buy thousands of bids then they are blind sided with new qualifiers that they weren't told about. They may not have signed up had they known of the new qualifiers that zeek knows about but did not make the info available to the new affiliate.

  82. Hey troy, I'm alittle confused because in one of your latest videos you have said that the comp plan is sustainable but now your telling glimdropper that his point is valid about zeekler auctions not having enough money generated to pay the ZR affiliates?

  83. @GlimDropper,

    And a valid concern you do have! And although, it doesn't have to make all the money to pay the ZR affiliates, it does need to be producing a high level of revenue to show some solid interest in using bids and enjoying the auctions.

  84. @Jack,

    go to ZeekRewardsNews.com and scroll to the last week of June or first week of July.

  85. Actually Dan, what we "clowns" are worried about is that there isn't nearly enough money being generated by the Zeekler auction platform to pay all the ZR affiliate "rewards" and that most of the money to pay them comes directly from other affiliates.

    Why would we be worried about that? Because if it is true ZR is doomed to eventual failure and the vast majority of the people who put money into the program recently will lose it to the affiliates who joined earlier.

    Someone's going to get crushed here but it sure as heck wont be us.

  86. @Jack,

    This happens daily with some network marketing company somewhere. In Zeek's case they have been telling folks for months there will be new qualifiers. And if you review Zeek Rewards News, then you will see those qualifieres and know that from 0 to 10,000 points there is not any change.

  87. @Ann Marie,

    The math used by Paul and his team has never been made public. But what we do know is all the figures are floating numbers that change daily.

  88. @Palmhaven,

    I did answer but I am sure it got lost. I have never heard from Paul that there is any cap on the RPP. However, I would guess there is a cap on a lot of things, this is a normal way of maintaining control of compensation plans. And as companies mature, they continually add new caps, and qualifications.

  89. I did not get a response to this question, Could you verify there is a $1,000,000.00 cap on an affiliates RPP Balance?

  90. You know, funny thing is that if these Chang oz morten clowns really believed that zeek was so out of compliance with the regulators, they wouldn't feel the need to dedicate every ounce of their being to highlighting the issue. They would be sitting back quietly, with a smile on their faces in the knowledge that the program will soon be shut down. Truth is, they know that Zeek is here to stay. Fear the Zeek :), so you should. It will crush you in it's path lol 🙂

  91. Hi Troy, I think I figured out the math! I took hypothetical cash available (2 million dollars) and divided it by total number of VIP points for all affiliates. So, if 100,000 affiliates had 1,000,000 VIP points each that would be 100,000,000,000 total VIP points. Take $2,000,000/100,000,000,000 VIP points, that gives you .00002. Take .0002 and multiply to the individual VIP points of 1,000,000 and you get $20. Multiply that by 100,000 affiliates and that's $2,000,000! Could that be the formula! Anyway, if 100,000 affiliates got .00002% of 1,000,000 VIP points they'd make $20 for the day. ;D

    Thanks for your patience with my posts!! God Bless! AM

  92. Sorry, Troy. Please don't post any of my comments. I need to recalculate my math! I was correcting it and it's not coming out right. Some how Paul figures what percentage he'll share daily, with the affiliates. Where the percentage comes from I'm not sure, now. I confused myself!! Thanks!! AM

  93. Troy, I'm not sure my math calculated right. I think I'm on the right track with the RPP. Maybe, you could check it for me….before posting. Thanks! ;D

  94. This is my understanding of the retail profit pool.. At the end of each day Paul decides what amount he will share with affiliates, he takes the cash available and divides it among all qualified affiliates. If all affiliates, for that day, set their repurchasing to zero, we would just collect the money that was already set aside for that payday. However, there would be NO repurchasing, so NO VIP balances would grow for that day! So the next day, Paul does the same thing. He takes the cash available, he decides, and divides that among the affiliates, and we all collect 100% for that day. Again, the cash is available, Now as we do this our VIP points decrease, therefore decreasing how much he has to payout each day! THIS IS NOT AN INVESTMENT!! It's a pay structure based on VIP points and the days allotted cash AVAILABLE, FOR ONLY THAT DAY!!! NOW, let's say three years from today, a hundred thousand affiliates are at 1 million VIP points, as he decides the cash AVAILABLE, lets say 2 million, for that DAY and divides it among the affiliates, the percentage will be .05%! An earning of $500 for that day ONLY!! My point is, it's a DAILY commission that is given and figured with cash available! =D Now if the company's sales go down, so do DAILY commissions! Our daily commissions are not sitting there building, and waiting for us to take them, SO, if the affiliates want to grow their future potential earnings, then, YES, we need to grow the company's earning through their FSC store, auction site, which by the way is getting some good stuff on there, the shopping daisy, and soon Zeebates! The thing about math, it doesn't lie!! Take CASH AVAILABLE divide among qualified affiliates you get a percentage! He isn't promising anything more than that! ;D

  95. What does everybody think about Zeek letting all of these new affiliates sign up when the program is going to be changing?

    Like someone joins and buys 10k in bids then finds out later they have to do more than post an ad every day to earn money.

  96. I'm not so sure steve. If you do some research, K chang isn't a mystery man.

    steve, you seem like a forthright individual. why not just take the time and answer his questions yourself? If they are erroneous, please make a valid point as to why.

  97. You can pay the annual fee with available cash, i just confirmed this with another affiliate. The option is not showing up for me because i don't have enough cash available. It is , however , showing up for the one i asked because she has enough cash set aside. The company is not forcing us to pay with credit cards. Hope that clears up your little confusion.

  98. Steve, relax! That's probably how they make money. We can only agree to disagree! They are entitled to their opinions and beliefs. Carry on with the business like you always do!

  99. @e,

    🙂 I love the field, and it would not matter what company it is. If I can help I will. To many times what stops a company from going from good to great is the customer service or what I like to call Distributor Experience.

    One of my clients just hired a V.P. of Distributor Experience because they realize at the end of the day if the distributors can't have the best experience in building their network marketing company, they will start to look for a new home.

    I am working on a new series which talks about this very issue. I believe a lack of good customer service is one of two issues that can stop any company from succeeding.

  100. @Gabe,

    Hmmm… I was pretty sure I talked about that in a comment by K.Chang, where he brings up the Omitrition case.

    As for my source, I have hundreds of P&Ps along with a master copy of the P&Ps by all the current well known legal teams serving network marketing.

    And, I did not mention lifetime caps, I did mention monthly caps on what can be bought. In most cases this is upfront when joining (known as front loading) and the max monthly purchase any one distributor can buy.

    The reason for the limit stems from many court cases where front-loading has taken place, leaving thousands of folks with thousands of dollars worth product sitting around they can't sell.

    So what it sounds like to me, is what you call a common theme in ponzi schemes is truly something used throughout direct selling since the late 1970s.

    I understand based on how you are looking at it, you would feel the way you do.

    Each network marketing company uses a little different math on their bonuses. Some like Zeek calculate daily, while other do it monthly, and even others calculate quarterly. Some payout daily, some payour monthly, and even others payout quarterly.

    Several companies allow an affiliate to qualify in their first month, but then makes them maintain a certain rank for 90-days before they can receive the bonus. If they drop below the minimum in any given month of the 90-day run, then they start all over.

    So, when I look at Zeek, I do not see anything out of the norm, based on my direct selling aka network marketing experience. And understand I have had all of my field success with service based companies, mostly in the top tier where federal and state regulation is high.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  101. @Troy

    I did not mention the word illegal, I said legit, meaning a legitmate business. Let me rephrase my question then, why do all network marketing companies (not quitre sure of your source of this info?) have monthly or lifetime limits on the amount of product they buy? It is a known fact that compartmentalization of product purchases is a common theme of ponzi businesses as allows the scheme to continue for a longer period of time?

    The reason I do not feel affiliates are not real customers is that zr pays them a commission of 20% plus a 90 ROI on their own spending, it's incentivised loss making in the long run. It's like me having a chocalate cookie stall and promising my staff half a cookie plus 10 cookies at the end of the month if they simply buy 1 of my cookies. This is very different to a customer who comes along and buys a cookie with no rewards except the cookie itself.

  102. $750 per day in 2011. They may not have paid out 50% they say up to. get off the 50% as if it's in stone.

  103. no it means you have a weird obsession with questioning things that don't need to be questioned. YOU DONT WANT TO BE CONVINCED…you're also bias so it's really a non issue. I have no problem with you thinking that it is not a legit company but why do you spend every second trying to prove it wrong. You have put your opinion out there and those who agree will agree and those who disagree will disagree there is no reason to question every single thread out there about Zeek. if in a year Zeek is not here then you have won the battle and you were right i will admit it but until then i want to learn the tips that Troy has to offer without you questioning what I am asking him. I mean that as respectfully as i can.

  104. @Brad

    You CAN have some scenario analysis in the spreadsheet, but I tried to make it as simple as possible, making it more easy to understand for most people. I haven't added the points Troy talked about either. People will have to decide for themselves whether or not they want to involve stuff like that.

    People have different taste when it comes to spreadsheets, for the different columns they will include and the formulas they will use to calculate something. My spreadsheet has a couple of unnecessary columns, unnecessary for other people, e.g. "Day of week".

    I calculated the following:

    What will happen to an initial VIP balance of 10,000, if the daily percentage is 1.5%, and you're reinvesting the daily RPP 100% for a huge number of days (currently 1001 days)?

    I didn't include any MONEY in the calculation. It started AFTER the money was paid in, when the money was converted to VIP points. Some "potential daily withdrawals" was added at the end.

    In the middle, it only involved non-monetary values like "RPP", "daily percentage" and "VIP points".

    I'm not an affiliate, but imagine the situation when you have reached the point where you can withdraw $1.5 million per day? You will be remembered for generations in your own family, as "Our great grandfather Brad, the founder of the family's fortune".. The family will tell stories about how you created your fortune, "He started with a small investment of $10,000 in 2012, and a few years later his income had grown to over $1 million per day".

  105. k.chang

    Enough is enough! You and your friends must spend 24 hours a day trying to dig up dirt on ZR. Could you please answer some questions my friend? Who are you? If your going to put this much time and effort to blogging mostly eroneous information about a company you should atleast have the decency to let the readers know your identity. I think then i would even take what you write a bit more seriously. You seem like an intelligent person, but all of your writings irrelevent without some sort of qualifications. If we would dig into any company we would find problems. The bigger the company the more problems that would be found. If Zeek were my company i would not even think about using a U.s bank. Use your talents to did into their business dealings. The top 20 US b anks have thousands of law suits against them in the billions of dollars. This is just one example of many. Again if your going to bring something to the table in this discussion please be more professional in your aproach.Your redderick is getting very old.

  106. Troy, you seem to be the number one customer service rep for Zeek! If they're not paying you, they should be!

  107. @K.Chang,

    I do not know how many affiliates they have, but I d know that over 100K have gone through the compliance course since May.

  108. Correcting 1 error in my previous post:

    "There are some variables that can fail:

    1. The daily percentage can change. The budget will automatically correct itself for changes like that, making the daily RPP become higher or lower."



    It won't automatically change the percentage, it has to be done manually. But all the other numbers will correct themselves automatically.

  109. @K.Chang,

    I have not received anything on this privately or publicly. Will make some calls.

  110. K. Chang,

    This is a simple answer… All MLMs who offer sample sizes of their products allow the affiliates/distributors to buy those quanities each month as their autoship order or as an additional purchase and the sales counts towards the overall volume personally and the team.

    The Omnitrition case was the turning point in the profession for the companies to stop allowing front-loading of products. These days the max buy-in is around $1000.00. Monthly autoships have dropped to a high of $200.00 per month, and the average is now less than $100.00 per month.

    I looking at Zeek Rewards, their monthly autoship is $10, $50 and $99. For those who want to really go strong and build a large team, they can buy a lifetime cap of $10,000.00 in bids. If they do not give away all those bids, I believe they can sell them back to the company.

    Now a question to you… Do you really think Kevin Grimes would allow a client to fall into the trap Omnitrition fell into?

  111. "A form of fraud in which belief in the success of a nonexistent enterprise is fostered by the payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors."

    Are you prepared to argue that Zeek Rewards is a Ponzi based on this definition? "Nonexistent enterprise"? I say it is clear that Zeekler is the enterprise whose success Zeek Rewards is based on. I don't think you would argue that Zeekler does not exist.

    Also, in a real Ponzi, the "payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors" is true. Is Zeek paying people today from monies collected from other affiliates? I don't think so, but I understand people believing this. Did Zeek not have enough money coming from the auction to pay the initial investors? I do not understand how anyone could assert that! But in a real Ponzi, that's what happens.

    If you want to prepare people for the day when the auction will no longer support the returns being seen today, I'm in full agreement with you. That will happen. But putting the Ponzi tag on it adds the idea of purposeful deception that Zeek supporters object to and that, IMHO, is not at all supported by Oz's definition.

  112. @K.Chang,

    Now, wait a second. I know a boatload of hard workers, but that doesn't mean they are working smart. However, history has proven that hard workers, who work smart usually figure out a way not to work so hard, and still get the job done… We call then inventors. 🙂

  113. @Morten,

    At no time was I ever talkng about a budget. All I did was make it very clear any public spreadsheet or calculation done by an independent Zeek Reward Affiliate is illegal and out or compliance. What you do in the privacy of your own home is your business.

    This not only made clear in the compensation course, it is Zeek 101.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  114. @K.Chang,

    If I interpreted your question and conclusion incorrectly please forgive me. Let me try again to get a better understanding.

    1. I would say, that those affiliates who are on a monthly subscription are on it to max out the compensation plan, including the RPP. It is my undersnading that the majority of ZR affiliates are not on a monthly subscription and do not qualify for the RPP.

    2. I understand that Zeek recommends repurchase of 80%, but how do we know affiliates who do qualify for the RPP are buying giveaway bids daily? Why cou;d we not assume they are recruiting new ZR affiliates, growing their marketing organization?

    3. I would agree that the vast majority of affiliates on a monthly autoship subscription would but additional bids to giveaway to max the compensation plan. I would disagree that the free affiliates are buying additional give away bids. If they were they could afford to upgrade their accounts.

    4. No, you are totally off on your understanding of Zeek.

    Zeek allows anyone who wants to represent the Zeekler Penny Auction to join for FREE and market. For this they will receive 20% of all bid sales. If the affiliate wants to develop their own independent marketing organization to help them advertise the Zeekler Penny Auction site, then Zeek also allows this network marketing income opportunity. For this opportunity, any Zeek affiliate who desires to upgrade to Silver, Gold or Diamond can open addtional levels in the compensation plan and bonus pools.

    For the additional commitment on the part of the ZR affiliate, Zeek rewards them appropriately based on their personal and team sales volume.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  115. @Troy

    Q: "How many shares of the RPP does each qualified affiliate have.

    How much is each share worth based on their percentage of the daily net revenue paid by the company.

    When did the affiliate become qualified for the RPP."

    "How much of the net daily revenue is allotted to the pool? (we know up to 50%, but we do not know the exact daily amount)

    How many many qualified affiliates are splitting the RPP daily. (That is a floating number)"

    A: Do the individual affiliates really have to know all that stuff to make their own budget? Budgeting is based on what we know about something, not about what we don't know.

    My budget didn't involve MONEY, other than the initial money paid in and the potential money that could be withdrawn in the future, with fixed numbers for the daily percentage and fixed reinvestment percentage. And it included all the necessary logics, like the retirement of points.

    You're making budgeting sound much more complicated than it really is, by including variables that normally shouldn't be a part of an individual's budget.

    My budget included the following:

    1. Initial VIP point balance, after the first purchase of bids have been done. I didn't involve any money here.

    2. Daily percentage for the RPP, based on historical data from the last 6 months, rounded to a 1-decimal value (1.5%). This percentage is the ONLY variable that can make the budget miss the target.

    3. Calculated daily RPP paid to the backoffice, a 3-decimal value.

    3a. The integer part of that number is moved to point 4.

    3b. The decimal part of the numbers are stored until they reach a value >= 1.000, and then the integer part will be added to point 4.

    4. Calculated repurchase of sample bids. Calculated repurchase will be added to the VIP point balance the next day. Money witdrawn and retired bids will be deducted before anything is added to the VIP point balance.

    5. Retirement of points. The numbers here are the same as point 4, 90 days earlier in the budget.

    6. Potential withdrawal of money. This is the first point where I have involved any money, and I sat the withdrawal to ZERO.

    We don't have to make budgeting become more complicated than that, do we? "Being qualified" should be about making things as simple as possible, not as complicated as possible. You CAN add lots of other variables to the budget, but why should you?

    There are some variables that can fail:

    1. The daily percentage can change. The budget will automatically correct itself for changes like that, making the daily RPP become higher or lower.

    2. The company can make changes to the VIP point balances for all affiliates, like a devaluation or something.

    3. The company can make changes to the system, making the VIP point balance become obsolete.

    4. The company can run out of money, making the potential withdrawal of money fail.

    5. The whole program or part of it can be terminated because of other reasons.

  116. Troy, any news you can share regarding Zeek's credit card processor?

    I'm getting reports from Facebook that they're processing charges out of Korea again. "Global Kamba" and "Paygate Seoul", apparently Zeek CS confirmed they are genuine charges, but they are automatically flagged as most US cards do NOT allow foreign charges.

    I have received reports that Zeek had charged membership out of CCBILL in Malta, Lambda CS out of Cyprus, the two I mentioned out of Korea, *and* some design out of Costa Rica (which is causing a LOT of problems to somebody here in the US that has a very similar named business), all in the past month or two.

    Didn't Zeek say the CC problems are solved?

  117. @K.Chang,

    1. I do not know that I can answer your question intelligently, or at least with just a "agree" or "disagree". All affiliates earn points for each sales they make so unless we know if the sale came from I can't give a definitive answer.

    2. My answer is the same as above.

    Unless we know for sure all in these scenarios that the affiliate is on a subscription and is qualified for for the RPP where the points mater, I can't ever come close to answering.

    But, K.Chang, also understand I have talked to hundreds of affiliates in person, who are not making huge amounts of money from the point pool, but are making some real good money from selling bid subscriptions personally and through the matrix on the volume their teams are selling. When I say really good money, I am talking about $500 to $1000 per month. And although I have talked to some really big builders in Zeek, they are the exception, not the norm.

  118. Work smart and work hard is the same thing. One can work hard with a brain too.

    Thus, I fail to see the purpose of your diatribe, unless it is from your misinterpretation of my comment.

  119. The STP issue has been copied to a thread on the zeek support forum. I believe it was copied from the STP forum thread. It stated some serious problems while switched hosting providers, databases not moved over correctly etc. Sounds like the cause of why you can't even log into STP.

    On another note, I am disappointed to hear today (and assuming on tonight's call) that we are not able to pay the new annual fee for the YGPTA videos with available cash. I was hoping the simple fact of paying with funds available in our back office would curb alot of the suspicions that zeek was out of money, or needed a quick money boost. Forcing all affiliates to pay by credit card does nothing to squelch these suspicions 🙁

    I really hope they will reconsider this, as to me, paying with internal funds would go along way to rebuilding confidence after all of the payout issues as of late.

  120. Troy,

    Sorry, another thought just occurred to me.

    You wrote: "What they (Penny Auction / ZeekRewards) are doing is taking a normal marketing method “giving away bids” and have wrapped a compensation model around the process"

    But someone have to have BOUGHT the bids… and in this case it is the AFFILIATES who bought the bids.

    In your experience, Troy, what MLM company (or ANY company) had its affiliates/employees/IBOs/whatever buy the samples, then reward them for giving away those samples?

    The only example I can think of is Omnitrition, where it told its members to give away the excess inventory if they can't be sold, just order enough to qualify for the payout level. Quoting from Kevin Grime's website:

    " A key factor upon which the court focused was evidence that under the Omnitrition program, distributors were encouraged to buy large amounts of merchandise ($2,000.00 per month) and simply "give them away" in order to participate in Omnitrition's "proven plan of success."


    IMHO, that is NOT a good thing to make a business model out of.

  121. 58.5 million / 365 is about 160K a day. Close enough.

    As payout was averaged thoughout 2011, revenue was probably close to 450-500K a day by December 2011, while very little at the beginning of the year. So you average out to be about 320K per day in 2011.

    So 7 months later, massive growth and all that, they're only pulling in 750K a day, based on your numbers.

    As I said, there's a gap there, unless you "massage" the numbers.

    Yes, there's a level of uncertainty. So feel free to adjust your own margin of error for each step.

  122. How many affiliates do they have now? Didn't someone say 100K?

    There's at least 6 affiliates with 1 MILLION points balance. I think that was in the recent Red Carpet event. Assume 20% withdrawal they are taking out, just by themselves, 90K DAILY, assuming each have 1 million points (I'm sure some have a bit more)

    Let's take your number, 750K revenue daily.

    Up to half is 375K, right?

    So the top 6 affiliates sucked off 25% of all revenue shared. Guess that leaves you, the rest, the 99.99%, to share in the rest. 🙂 Based on the amount of VIP points you have.

  123. I feel sorry for your upline. Perhaps she's hostile to your curiosity, which seems to be a corporate culture at Zeek. First Dawn used that toilet paper analogy for obedience, then official reps post comments that says whoever keeps asking about what bank Zeek uses should not be in Zeek. Now we have the uplines sprouting the same groupthink.

    I hope your upline is not a typical Zeekhead. I believe Mr. Dooly would agree this is NOT proper behavior for ANYBODY, much less an upline who's supposed to be mentoring downlines.

  124. One last item:

    It is actually very easy to tell whether Zeek counts the "giveaway bids" purchase by affiliates as customer sales.

    Why don't you just ask Dawn or Paul?

    1) Are the sales of giveaway bids to affiliates counted as "revenue" daily?

    2) Are the revenue daily being shared with affiliates?

    I am sure they'll tell you.

  125. @John — I would respectfully suggest that you are only looking at OPERATIONAL problems to be fixed, but there are deeper FUNDAMENTAL BUSINESS MODEL problems that remains unaddressed.

  126. Hi Troy,

    Now that Zeek has starting paying, now we can't get our money out of Solid Trust Pay. It has been down for days now. I've been trying to get several affiliates signed up and they can't use STP either because it's down. We can't even purchase bids with STP because of the downtime. Zeek has a relationship with them and I would think they would be on top of this and speak to the folks over there to find out what is going on. Does Zeek care anymore about what's going on with their affiliates?

    Yes, we all know about STP's useless hosting company. But all you ever hear is things will get back to normal soon.

    Since Payza has had so many problems in the past a lot of people are just afraid to use them, just as I am.

    Thankfully I was able to get that one payment from 7/2 through NXPay without a flaw.

    Zeek has been very quite about the issues we are having. They posted a very short note about the new compliance package and call details. I don't understand why they are still launching products, when they still have so many unresolved issues.

    It just seems like no matter what, we cannot get our money. It's very hard trying to build your business with so many issues and Zeek doesn't seem to be addressing these problems. Maybe in the background, but what about letting the affiliates know?

    It doesn't appear that e-wallets is a very viable solution for paying affiliates.

    Can you look into this for us Troy?

    It's ashame we have to come here to get answers, but unfortunately there is no where else to turn. I'm very grateful for your interaction with the Zeek affiliates.

    Thanks again for all you do!

  127. @ K.chang

    What world do you live in? I hate to break it to you, but you take a ditch digger that works his but off he does not make more money than say a CEO even though he works harder. In the real world the people that make the most money are the ones watching the people that does all of the hard work. Have you ever heard work smart not hard? I'm glad i'm not following you to make an income for my family. Don't get me wrong I don't have anything against people that work hard, but as for me I have always made more money when I worked smart not hard.

    K chang how do you make your money? If your not working harder than a ditch digger and making more money than you are a hypocrite. Please tell us how you make money.

  128. @Gabe,

    Why would you feel placing a cap on the amount of lifetime bids that can be purchased would point to something illegal? Especially since all netowkr marketing companies have monthly or lifetime limits on the amount of product their field force can buy?

    On your second question, why do you feel affiliates are not real customers? Affiliates are real customers, if they are buying bids and using them for personal consumption.

  129. @Morten,

    Please understand no disrespect is intended.

    However, it is not a common sense issue, it is a legal issues. It is illegal for you or anyone outside of Rex Venture Gorup, LLC to share any numbers. And it is out of compliance with the Zeek P&Ps to show any numbers except those provided by the Income Disclosure Statement. You can in a private setting after showing the IDS, your own personal experience i.e. checks.

    My words are those of someone who is only looking out for your best interest as an advocate of the profession.

    Again, without knowing all the variables, any spreadsheet created and made public opens you (as the affiliate who created it) up for legal consequences and/or compliance issues.

    Again, words of caution are what I am delivering to you and anyone else who makes public their "what if" predictions.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  130. @Morten,

    If we were talking about an investment account, such as a mutal funds or historical track record of a stock performance I would agree fully with you.

    However, unlike an investment where the historical event is focused on one specific fund, stock or commodity, we have an unknown nunmber of individual experiences based on variables we do not know, such as…

    How many shares of the RPP does each qualified affiliate have.
    How much is each share worth based on their percentage of the daily net revenue paid by the company.
    When did the affiliate become qualified for the RPP.

    Then there are the other variables…

    How much of the net daily revenue is allotted to the pool? (we know up to 50%, but we do not know the exact daily amount)
    How many many qualified affiliates are splitting the RPP daily. (That is a floating number)

    I do agree most people will try and predict what their future earning may be based on their personal experience. This is just plain normal activity. Where it becomes a compliance issue, is when they share these numbers with others. It is against the law and against the compliance of Zeek.

    Budgeting has nothing to do with current events, it has to do with cash-in and cash-out. Well unless you are a Government, then it may be called budgeting, but it resembles the making of a ponzi scheme 🙂

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  131. @Michael,

    Interesting question. Yes, in any company where a person is acting on behalf of the company as an independent representative, based on the compensation structure you should be able to request 100% of your commissions and have them delivered in a reasonable amount of time.

    However, even in ponzi schemes, receiving funds have not been an issue. Let's take the one most commonly referred to in Zek threads ASD. They did not have any problem paying on time… until the feds froze all assets.

    From what I have been told, Zeek not only has the funds in the accounts to pay each and every affiliate, but everyday, they are accounting for the money owed to affiliates and it is paid into the commission account. They do not use any future event for paying affiliates, only daily current events. Which is why, all the spreadsheets do not work from my understanding.

    Again, I do not know all the specific math, but I do understand the general method being used.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  132. When running a spreadsheet you have to use a number to start with, just like Zeek does on their website: The company (today and at the end of each day) tallies the days net profits and determines the day's VIP Profit Share Award. Let's say, for the sake of this example – the company determines that today's revenue allows for a 1.5% award and posts it to the Retail Profit Pool which reflects in yours and every other Qualified Affiliate's Profit Pool account. Assuming a 1,000 point balance, in this example, it would give you a $15.00 award.

    In our example, let's assume that you have set your preference to use 100% of your daily award to purchase more bids to give away as samples to grow your business (and your VIP balance!). When you go check your Retail Profit Pool Report the next day, you will see that your account balance will now be 1015 VIP ProfitPoints because the bids were given away to your retail customers!

    **Please note that daily percentages will vary and we do not guarantee any specific amounts or results.

    The spreadsheet can have some scenario analysis with different numbers: 0.80%, 1%, 1.25%, etc. Most examples I have seen from affiliates use 1.20% to 1.50%. Overall there seem to be too many affiliates, not enough auctions, not enough Zeek Rewards customers, and limited ability for Zeek's compliance department to monitor affiliates around the world. I can not imagine them watching hundreds of thousands affiliates when they are having trouble with their customer service department.

  133. I am still learning — is it correct to say that a key factor in what makes something in this arena legal or not is that all $ "available" to withdraw is represented by actual money in profits?

    In other words, literally every user should be able to set themselves to 100% cash out and the money would be there to cover it. In a ponzi the money is just not there which is part of the problem?

    I know of a number of people who advertise INSANE amounts of points etc. Zeek has enough money that everyone could set to 100% cash out and it would be a non issue? I realize that you can't answer that specifically, what I am asking is if that is in fact a "requirement." Thanks.

  134. @Troy

    For some reason I couldn't answer the post in the right place, appr. 100 posts earlier in the thread:



    I disagree, because of the following…

    There is no investment at all. People purchase bids, Rex Venture Group, decides how much of their daily revenue (up to 50% of the net) to share with those who qualify, and they are all floating numbers, with no way at all of knowing what they will be day to day.

    So, without knowing from day to day how many affiliates are qualified, how much the net revenue is going to be, and then how much of the revenue Rex will share, none of the math will ever be correct.


    It's possible to use historical data from the last 6 months? It will probably show an average percentage per weekday between 1.4% and 1.5%.

    In a spreadsheet where you try to predict something for the future, you will never have accurate data (because the future hasn't happened yet). But most people will try to calculate the future anyway, based on the knowledge they have. It's called BUDGETING, "provide a forecast for revenue and expenditures", and is a commonly accepted method..

    And the method should be relatively reliable, since it don't involve any money, only RPP and VIP points. I believe most people will consider this method to be acceptable and reliable. They can of course accept your method too.

  135. @Troy

    Read that part about using common sense one more time?

    Common sense should tell you that I don't need to get a spreadsheet nor the average percentage verified by Rex Venture Group?

    The spreadsheet shows a theoretical model for how the VIP balance and the daily RPP "payouts" will grow with 100% reinvestment, with an average daily percentage of 1.5% and points that retires after 90 days.

    People can replace the 1.5% with 1.4% if they like to, or use historical data if they feel that method is closer to reality.

    If you set up your own spreadsheet, then you can MAKE IT become perfectly close to a theoretical reality of your own choice, so the "not close to reality" shouldn't be any problem.

  136. @K. Chang – it is my personal observation that you conclude that "most" Zeek supporters do NOT look at all the facts because most Zeek supporters have not taken the action that you would expect them to take based on your interpretation of the facts. As a Zeek affiliate, I know lots of Zeek supporters. I would say that all of us have looked at all the facts. Like you, we have a grip on the fact that there are problems. Unlike you, we also have a clear understanding of everything being done to fix the problems (you can't know that as well as we do unless you are going to all of the meetings and reading as much as we are reading) We know that we are taking a risk. Most of us know that this cannot last forever and we hope that we are early enough in the window of opportunity that we will do well before the end comes. And we tell everyone that we approach about all of the good and all of the risk.

    Please consider this possibility – the group of Zeek supporters who choose to have a public debate with you in your blog do not provide a good cross section of Zeek supporters. I have read as much as I can, including most of what you have written. I have looked at all of the "facts" as best I can. I admit a bias that results from the money and time I have put into Zeek. But I remain confident in my decision to work this program. And I know a lot of Zeek supporters just like me.

  137. Hi Troy,

    My user Id is 1vcw on the 23rd of June i bought bids through st pay 140, and they never showed up in my account. st pay said Zeek would manually enter them. I submitted a ticket on the 25th with all the info trans# etc. All i was told was i have been added to the list. 3 weeks later still nothing. I would be very gratefull if you could forward this to the right person, I sure can't get ahold of anyone. Thank you for your help

  138. I was just looking at the auctions and what I was seeing was way higher that your $1000 avg. More like 21/2 times higher. You should be figuring $2500 avg per auction. For get my post before this one my numbers are not right either. Instead of 60mil. it should be $58,575,796.98. Something else you are not considering is zeek pays up to 50% that does not mean it's 50% all the time. How does $750k per day sound instead of the $300k that you said earlier?

  139. When I approach people with Zeek, I tell them it is a different program. And I suggest your specticism with Connie is a result of not appreciating the difference that Zeek brings to the mlm world.

    Let's look at the math here:

    $4K per week is $571 a day. If she's leaving 80% in and taking 20% she'd need an average daily commission of $2857 to make that amount. If the average profit share is .015, for that commission she would need 190,496 VIP points.

    So, is 7 months long enough to build a point balance of almost 200,000 points with a team of 170? Keep in mind that Connie makes 10% of the purchases of her first level and 5% of the purchases of her second level. So if she has a person who has 10,000 points on her first level, he or she is making an average of $150 a day in the profit sharing. They are using that $150 to purchase more sample bids and Connie is making $15 a day from that affiliate. And my bet is all of that goes in to purchase more sample bids! And I would also bet that her team is making here lots of points if they have any idea how she's doing.

    When you realize that she is getting 10% and 5% of her 1st and 2nd level purchases and that most of those 170 are making significant daily purchases in order to maintain their point balances, is it really that surprising that she has enough points to make $4K a week with a team of that size?

    One more point. In order to continue making $4K or more, Connie is going to have to continue to give away at least 200,000 bids every 90 days. That's 200 customers (at least 60 to 70 new customers per month) just to support her commission. Not counting the people being driven to the website by the ads, larger and larger numbers will be driven to the Zeekler website by affiliates in order to continue to be paid.

    I believe it is clear that a large number of people (recruited by a growing army of Zeek Rewards affiliates who want to be paid) are going to know the name Zeekler in the next year or two. And some percentage of them are going to be ready to pay to play the auction (if that weren't true, Quibids would not be on TV). It would seem reasonable to believe that one day Zeekler might be the name everyone thinks of when they think of penny auctions and that the percentage of people buying bids might increase when that becomes true.

  140. You are just talking auction earnings only. There are other earnings coming in besides auction. That $150 gift card went for over $30 I think your $1000 might be low.

    As long as zeek is paying then whats the problem. I mean really who are you for them to have to answer to you. Are or would you sign up with zeek if the anwsers meet your satisfaction? I don't think you would. Zeeklers traffic has growed so much in 2012. Your numbers are not right.

    60 million/365 days = $164383.56. Like I said your numbers are wrong.

  141. Troy, one more item

    You wrote: " I do not see that unique bid auction companies are trying to define a new type of customer sale. "

    You also wrote: "(They took marketing method) “giving away bids” and have wrapped a compensation model around the process, while adding to it, at least one qualification for the affiliates, which is to advertise daily for the company."

    But the bids that were given away are PURCHASED by the affiliates, which generates profit for the company. Right? So why is that NOT considered "customer sales", is it because it was sold to affiliates, NOT customers?

    I can see the company GIVING free bids to affiliates, and reward them for giving those bids away to customers who then use them. That would make sense. THAT is marketing. The more customers you give away bids to and use them, the more your rewarded. You're rewarded for WORK. That makes sense.

    But ZeekRewards does NOT work like that.

    ZR has its affiliates BUY those bids, THEN reward affiliates for spending that money. That makes it a pay-to-play mechanism, esp. when affiliates are rewarded for amount of money put in (and kept in, so it can compound), not for amount of work they do.

    You already agreed that the work affiliates do is minimal ("additional qualifiers are needed", you wrote).

    I realize numbers will vary greatly, so I'll qualify this question with two scenarios:

    Scenario 1) Do you agree or disagree that ZR affiliates with only 100 points or so are, at this moment, primarily rewarded for the amount of money they spent on the giveaway bids?

    Scenario 2) Do you agree or disagree that ZR affiliates with about 10000 points or so are, at this moment, primarily rewarded for the amount of money they spent on the giveaway bids?

    Let us assume both have been in ZR for about 45 days, half way into expiring points (none had expired yet).

  142. Hey Troy why is zeek limited to putting in 10,000$ if it is so legit?

    Also how much does zeek make from real customers not affiliates?

  143. Jeff, would that have anything to do with the amount of customers/ affiliates plus the way Zeek is hyped and spammed, sorry ADVERTISED all over the net every day by every affiliate>?

    Some of the others you mention are pretty much passive investments, they go quietly under the rug. Whereas Zeek is actively selling it's own model and telling the world about it.

    Those, such as royalty 7 are more OBVIOUS ponzi schemes whereas zeek is a little more subtle unless you dig a bit deeper. That makes Zeek MUCH more dangerous and therefore comment worthy as it's much more sneaky.

    On top of that, look at all the responses Oz etc get from defensive affiliates of zeek on his/ their articles! Yet, when posting on other scams such as JBP, no one. There is more debate and discussion on zeek as compared to other ponzi schemes. Again, this is because the ponzi-ness of zeek is more cleverly hidden.

  144. Troy,

    You wrote: "1. You determined a conclusion that ZR affiliates do not enjoy bidding in the Zeekler Auctions, yet I know you do not have the facts to provide that conclusion."

    That was not what I wrote. I wrote they are buying bids for giveaway to qualify for RPP. They can buy separate bids to enjoy themselves. That would be self-consumption and is NOT related to the giveaway bids. They get separate 20% for buying retail bids.

    The question then is: how many bids are they buying for RPP qualification, and how many are they buying for themselves?

    As Zeek recommends 80% repurchase, affiliates are CONSTANTLY buying giveaway bids (daily).

    I would say VAST MAJORITY of a member's bid purchase is for giveaway bids, NOT retail bids (to be enjoyed by oneself). Indeed, you get a few dozen retail bids every month for paying the monthly fee, if I read the comp plan correctly, depending on your affiliate level.

    But then, I'm sure we can take a poll here online of your readers. Let's just take a sample WEEK from 3 weeks ago, say, and ask your readers: how many bids did they repurchase for giveaway (daily for a week), and how many did they actually buy for themselves to be used by themselves?

    You may be surprised by the results.

    You wrote: "Basically, instead of spending millions on a media campaign, like QuiBids, they (Zeek) have decided to pay the field."

    So they are essentially advertising using affiliate money (the affiliates are buying the giveaway bids), and paying the affiliates based on how much they "borrowed" from the affiliates, correct?

    But that would make it an "investment" by the affiliate, wouldn't it?

  145. Jeff your the man! Dont know if your reports are true about OZ but they make sense. The point here is it doesnt matter if their true if we follow the logic of Oz , Chang and the rest of the crew. They just put ideas out there without any facts. We havent recieved one fact from them yet. Lets hear the response OZ! Oh and please provide proof when you respond, as this what you continually request from Mr Dooly.


  146. Yes Troy, I'm not sure how you can earn $4000/wk with 170 people. I dont peg her as a liar, I believe her. My experience, regardless of comp plan, ones business should be doing about $40K a week in sales to earn that kind of commission, especially if you're using matrix or unilevel math.

  147. @Mike,

    I know everyone loves spreadsheets, but they are totally out of compliance and I have yet to find one that is correct for everyone. Which is why Zeek is very clear not to present them.

    Be very careful.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  148. @K.Chang,

    LOL… I know you saw my reply. But there is no way I want to be an employee ever again 🙂

  149. @Morten,

    Although common sense is good for most of us, it is not what makes math work. I have been following spreadsheets on Zeek for months, and have yet to find one that comes close to reality. They are based on hypotheticals, and limited personal experience. I do not mean to be disrespectful, I am just clarifying that unless you or anyone knows the specific numbers used daily by Rex Venture Group to decide what is added to the RPP and paid to those who qualify, then you can't provide any solid information.

    Plus, anyone who does provide a spreadsheet is 100% out of compliance with Zeek, because you are showing numbers which have not been validated by Rex Venture Group. This is no different than showing a personal check or showing someone your back office.

    I see folks get frustrated when the critics start talking about Zeek being a scam, and showing numbers, then affiliates do the same thing. Caution is always better than publicly trying to presents facts that are based on assumptions.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  150. Hey Troy, is it possible to organize the commentary section of your blog chronologically instead of topically, more like the way Oz does it at behindmlm? It's not an easy format to follow, lots of scrolling and searching. Thanks, e

  151. I had talked with my sponsor about this same exact idea a while ago. After all, Zeek would have everything to gain and nothing to lose if reputable CPAs were to conclude that significant external customer money was coming into Zeekler. Heck, I might even rethink my present strategy of cashing out ASAP.

    She went ballistic and essentially told me to go to hell for having such an idea.

  152. @K.Chang,

    If you have been reviewing what Kevin writes then you should be fully aware that the definition of "customer" is the big question! In the majority of network marketing companies, all sales are customer sales. The issue comes into play when regulators, after giving a company plenty of time to launch and balance their sales, that the majority of sales to customers are to customers who are also distributors i.e. buying product to qualify for their compensation.

    And when I say qualifying for compensation, I am referring to compensation outside of their personal sales, which no purchase has to be made period.

    I should also clarify, that all purchases by affiliates above and beyond what it takes to qualify for commissions is classified a sales outside of the compensation structure. Prime example is OxyFresh. The monthly autoship to max the compensation plan is $100.00 monthly. The average distributor purchase per month is $300.00. The additional $200.00 per month would be classified by regulators as regular customer sales.

    Now in reviewing your parallel, you seem to have gone from delivering some solid info, to making subjective conclusions. Let's take a look real quick…

    1. You determined a conclusion that ZR affiliates do not enjoy bidding in the Zeekler Auctions, yet I know you do not have the facts to provide that conclusion. To come to a logical conclusion that ZR affiliates do not enjoying bidding, thus they only buy bids, to qualify for the RPP, you, me or anyone would need the following two pieces of info… 1. How many of the active zeek rewards affiliates are qualified for the RPP. If it is less than 100%, then your deduction is false.

    2. You would have to know that 100% of the Zeek Rewards affiliates do not, buy any retail VIP bids from the Zeekler site for their own personal pleasure. Although #2 is not near as important as #1, it is still very important based on your argument. See all PV and GV volume is used to determine the individual share each qualified ZR affiliate in the RPP.

    So to say "no" ZR affiliate is buying bids for personal enjoyment is nothing more than a subjective conclusion. Where I will agree with you, is the fact, some ZR affiliates probably do not like to bid, and may not have ever bought a bid for personal consumption. But this is also pretty standard in network marketing companies.

    Now to further clarify consumption. As I have said from the very beginning, Zeek and all internet based companies fall closer to direct marketing companies than direct sales companies, but since most folks are only comparing to direct sales aka network marketing, I will use it for the example.

    Consumption doesn't have to be personal. There is not any law on the books which states an affiliate must consume the products they purchase personally. As a matter of fact, I'll really cause some controversy, I doubt anyone can even produce a law that states any consumption must be made at all. 🙂

    But, if we go with the common idea that 70% of all products purchased the month before must be used before another purchase is made, then we can quickly see, that nowhere in the statement does it state the product must be sold to the person consuming it. In other words, the product can be used personally, given away, or sold to someone.

    So, unless we find that no one is bidding at Zeekler period, and all the bids purchased and given away are being purchased by affiliates and given away to people who have never used the bids, or purchased additional bids, then we can't come to any logical finite conclusion.

    And, for clarification, it is always best to provide the basis of a quote. Just pulling out a piece to help validate a position is best suited for political campaigns, not when trying to provide solid arguments for both sides of an equation.

    So, let's look at what Kevin said in the opening paragraph of his editorial…

    "I was speaking with a prospective client the other day about his MLM Startup and on his first question, he asked, “Are there any reasons why I should NOT start a network marketing business.” I thought it was a neat exercise. He was clearly testing me to see if I could be objective. After all, the MLM model is not a great fit for everyone. See below for 33 reasons why the model might not be the best for YOU as a means of distributing your product or service. It’s ok to launch with some of these challenges. But if the list stacks up high, exercise caution. And of course, it all depends on the complexity of your business."

    So when put in context, I do not see that unique bid auction companies are trying to define a new type of customer sale. What they are doing is taking a normal marketing method "giving away bids" and have wrapped a compensation model around the process, while adding to it, at least one qualification for the affiliates, which is to advertise daily for the company.

    Basically, instead of spending millions on a media campaign, like QuiBids, they have decided to pay the field.

    Now, I will say, I personally believe additional qualifiers need to be in place to help drive even larger volume above and beyond what is takes to qualify for commissions. Which is something I have mentioned several times.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  153. Minus the cost of the actual gift card

    Minus the cost of the overhead (salaries, support, etc.)

    then you go into the murky stuff

    Remember to Minus 20% commission given

    THAT is what's left as "profit", though did Dawn say they are sharing REVENUE, or sharing profit?

    Let's "assume" for a moment, that's TYPICAL of Zeek's profit margin. Let's just say, they make $1000 per auction.

    How many auctions are they running per day? 2-300?

    So they make 300000 a day, right?

    Go over RVG's 2011 income disclosure statement, and you'll see they paid out 58.5 million in 2011.

    That's 160K shared with affiliates PER DAY.

    That's 320K revenue (or profit) PER DAY

    Averaged throughout entire 2011.

    There's a revenue gap in there that is unexplained.

  154. I wish you luck, but IMHO (of course) you may have placed too much… "faith" into this enterprise.

    Once should not have "faith" in a job and its rewards. It makes it no different than a lottery. You should be rewarded for your hard work in a job, not for amount of faith and money you have in the business.

  155. I was making "every argument possible for everything"? Gee, what does that mean exactly? If you mean "I have an answer for every argument Zeek supporters bring up",

    If a people wants to be convinced, they will convince themselves, albeit with a little help.

    If they don't want to be convinced, then no amount of convincing will change their minds. They are known as "true believers". Even when you show facts that disprove their premise, they will just make up an excuse. Just look at that guy who predicted "the world will end"… When the world didn't end, he announced… it's rescheduled! Hah!

    The problem is one of CONFIRMATION BIAS. If you believe in something, you will naturally seek out those who agree with you, and reject those who do NOT agree with you, even though both sides have evidence and logic to support their premise.

    But if you reject some information, then are you really making decision that is based on the "best" information available to you? Or are you only looking for people who agree with you, to affirm your own beliefs?

  156. @affiliate,

    I addressed the Howey test a while back, and I do not feel Zeek would flunk it at all. I am not going to explain again, because it will just get lost. I might do a full editorial on it covering the whole unique bid auction niche, but if you want to read what I wrote, you will need to go through the comment threads.

    I have found that when folks have to try too hard convince people of something, usually just turn them off. My goal is not to change anyone's mind, just to provide as much info as I can for folks to make informed decisions.

    I do believe that the company is running a legit business. This does not mean that there are not issues that need to be addressed or that a regulatory agency could not decide unique bid auctions or one of the companies are not operating correctly. As a matter of fact I would predict that sooner or later the N.C. AG will decide to issue a CID (Civil investigative Demand) to Zeek and then will ask for some adjustments. He just did this to Duke Energy and billion dollar energy company, so I figure Zeek could also get one.

    I do believe it is sustainable because I have talked with Paul and have a pretty solid understanding of the math he is using.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  157. @Wildpenny,

    I know some folks seem to have issues with Oz and kChang, and although I can;t say much about kChang because I have never posted on anything he has written. Oz has always been straightforward and accepted my comments. Now his community can get a little passionate at times, when I have disagreed with them. 🙂

  158. @Brian,

    Glad you stopped by and commented. I really do my best to live by the Golden Rule. I know how I want to be treated and although I fall short many times, I do try. I can tell Erik has a boatload of passion about this issue, and although, we may never agree totally on all sides of it, I do believe at the very heart of the issue we are both on the same page.

    He wants to protect his friends from getting hurt emotionally and financially, I want to make sure all those in Zeek or are looking at Zeek know the facts and opinions on both sides so they do not get hurt emotionally or financially by joining a company they do not fully understand, or know the risks.

    I know the Big M has taken a beating over the last couple of years, but I am hearing good things are happening overseas, and some of that momentum is starting to move back to the states. A few have reached out to learn of other opportunities and to see if we have any distributorships for sale in other companies, so I do feel everyone is going to land on their feet.

    Kevin is a great friend and one of the best attorneys I know. Many top distributors get frustrated when he is on board because he is so tight when it comes to compliance.

    I am looking forward to connecting in a couple of weeks.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  159. @e,

    I have to agree with you on this one. a group of 170 and cashing flowing $4K per week each and ever week is somewhat unbelievable. Not saying anyone is lying, but over the years I just have not seen this type of huge weekly payout.

  160. @Morten,

    I disagree, because of the following…

    There is no investment at all. People purchase bids, Rex Venture Group, decides how much of their daily revenue (up to 50% of the net) to share with those who qualify, and they are all floating numbers, with no way at all of knowing what they will be day to day.

    So, without knowing from day to day how many affiliates are qualified, how much the net revenue is going to be, and then how much of the revenue Rex will share, none of the math will ever be correct.

  161. @Troy

    You will probably make it easier for Brad if you tell WHY you disagree?

    The math isn't 100% correct, but the logic is correct. I have only extended the 100% reinvestment time from 90 or 180 days to 600-2000 days, to enhance some details and make things become clearer. The method can be compared to using a magnifying glass.

  162. @oz your not asking the right question, you asked ROI zeek is not an investment. When you join zeek you make a purchase for bids it's not a INVESTMENT.

  163. Wow Connie. $4000 a week with a group of 170 is unheard of in network marketing, and you did it in 7 months. 170 isn't impressive for 7 months, but $4000 a week is. Doesn't really seem like one can fail in Zeek.

    Advice…don't live like you're earning $4000/week. Save, save, save. You never know what's around the corner.

  164. Troy,

    I have been reading your blog for weeks now concerning Zeek Rewards. I have been hesitant in doing so, but I have finally decided to join and participate in the conversations concerning such. I applaud your intent observations, and dedication to finding truth in all you do.

    (My son is a Sgt. in the Marine Corp., …so I thank you for your service and hold you in my heart for your honor)

    I am an affiliate of Zeek Rewards, and have CHOSEN to take a chance with this opportunity as it has been presented to me. I have also encouraged my 3 sons to do the same. In doing so, I have given them a somewhat glimpse of a purposeful hope for their futures, as they are all in their 20's, there seems to be a limited means in reaching hopeful goals. This is not to say I am naiive nor blind to the problems zeek is experiencing, but just that I am willing to take the chance. As in ALL business ventures there is always risk involved. I work for the Postal Service, and I could lose my job tommorrow, but I would have still taken the job when it was offered to me many years ago. My point being nothing is guaranteed, noones income revenue is completely "safe" forever.

    The one thing that I would like to stress to the negative naysayers out there, that this could be THE ONE opportunity that has come along for all who has no other bright lights in their futures. Instead of hoping it fails, lets all pray that it doesnt , and help in all ways possible to assure it does succeed. Put all this negative effort to good use, help fix the problems you feel are imperative to the sucess of Zeek Rewards, instead of looking forward to basking in the joy of "I told you so" if it should fail. So many families can be pulled back up by their boot straps, and will be able to continue on. Thats what Zeek Rewards means to me and my family. A solid hope for our futures.

    I did not intend to ramble on, I just wanted to thank you Troy for your honest approach to all this, and find it quite humorous how you have become the "chosen one" to resolve so many issues concerning Zeek Rewards affiliates. 🙂 Its a good thing you have a direct line to "the powers that be" !!!

    I do have one question, or maybe a comment to squelch all ideas that the affiliate money earnings will get out of control. Could you please verify that there is a $1,000,000 cap on all affiliates RPP balance,?Meaning all monies over and above must be withdrawn on a daily basis. I do not know this to be true, It does make sense for the sustainment of the company, but just needs verification.

    Once again, I thank you

    Living a "hopeful" existence!


  165. Troy you sure have been patient with e or Erik, I was a Black Diamond in MV you can look up my name on google or youtube to see that we where from 2007 to 2011 Brian and Jill Cattano with a team of 48,000 and the business completely fell apart when the economy shifted and our income dropped drastically so as for Eric as a Blue Diamond he is not making hardly any income anymore. This is evident by 10 Black Diamonds and above who have left MV and tons of Diamonds, Blue Diamonds, and Hawaiian Blue or Purples what ever they call them now have moved on to other networks and most of those came to Zeek like I did. I know Kevin Grimes personally from MV and I can tell you this when he's on board we have a great thing. e is just upset because yes people are able to join Zeek and make money everyday without doing meetings and parties. I have been in Zeek 9 months and we make more now than we did last year in MV it has saved my family.

    Troy keep up the great reporting and I hope to meet you July 25th.

    Brian and Jill Cattano

  166. I too have tried to make intelligent and informed statements refuting Oz and Chang on their website but my posts are ALWAYS deleted.

  167. Troy,

    I really appreciate the posts that you put up i think they are very helpful. I was recently on k. chang's website unfortunately and he was trying to make every argument possible for everything. He also has been mentioning a Howey test. What are your thought's about this test? It kind of bother's me that he goes on all of these forums and just tries to convince people otherwise so hard. You do pretty much everything MLM and you believe whole heartedly that this is legal legit and sustainable correct?

  168. @Evi

    The spreadsheet example was about using common sense. An initial purchase of 10,000 bids will double the VIP balance each 100 days after the first 90 days, with 100% repurchase. Have you ever heard of other "purchases" able to double your money in 100 days?

    You will reach 125,000 in 300 days

    250,000 in 400 days

    500,000 in 500 days

    1 million in 600 days

    2 million in 700 days

    4 million in 800 days

    8 million in 900 days

    16 million in 1000 days

    32 million in 1100 days

    64 million in 1200 days

    128 million in 1300 days

    256 million in 1400 days

    512 million in 1500 days

    1024 million in 1600 days

    2048 million in 1700 days

    4096 million in 1800 days

    The math isn't 100% correct, but you haven't read ONE comment about "You're way off the target!"? You haven't read ONE comment from people claiming "I seriously do believe a penny auction website can support payouts of that size to several 100 thousands of affiliates"?

    Anyone can do the math themselves, so I haven't used any cryptic explanation involving several vague theories no one can understand. Spreadsheets have been commonly used among affiliates, so I have used their own methods here.

    You can 20-double your initial VIP balance in 12 months, 250-double it in 24 months, and 900-double it in 30 months. It will probably make sense for some people?

    It doesn't really matter if I'm off-target here, if you only can 400-double it in 30 months instead of 900-double it.

  169. Just beware "provide hope" has been used by many scammers to grab money. Remember, many of Madoff's victims were jewish charities and such.

    I believe it was listed in Andy Bowdoin's ASD indictment that he told someone, who was about to go to the cops to blow the whole thing wide open that "a lot of good people would be hurt if you do that."

    You may be basing your trust in company on FAITH. As Mr. Dooly have said, (quoting other famous people, no doubt) trust must be EARNED, not given. Whether Zeek has EARNED your trust, and with what, is up to you.

  170. Troy:

    As there's no more reply levels I'll have to reply over here. I have one clarification I request of you.

    You wrote: “Do Network Marketing Companies pay out the bulk of their Profit Pool Bonuses with affiliate money?”

    The correct answer is "no they don't". Profit pool is paid by CUSTOMER MONEY. Indeed, ALL payout is supposed to be done with CUSTOMER MONEY. Right?

    Sure, initially affiliates are acting as customers, internal consumption is still consumption. In this case, affiliates are acting as CUSTOMERS. Thus, money they spend is customer money, because they are spending it as customers. They are ENJOYING the products.

    So we go back to Oz's question: "“Does Zeek Rewards pay out the bulk of their 90 day ROI with affiliate money?”

    Here's where the parallel breaks down.

    Are the affiliates buying bids to enjoy them? The answer is no. They are buying them to qualify for RPP (along with other minuscule requirements). They do NOT get to enjoy those bids.

    Thus, they are buying bids as AFFILIATES, not as consumers. They don't consumer the bids at all.

    Thus, it is NOT self-consumption, and thus, this situation is NOT analogous to the other question you posed.

    Indeed, I am reminded of this Kevin Thompson quote from his website: 33 reasons you should NOT start a MLM business:

    Kevin Thompson wrote: "9) You’re inventing a new definition for “customer sale.” Instead of requiring that your distributors purchase inventory they can either use or sell to customers in a month, you’re going to require that they purchase product and give it all away and conveniently count those “gifts” as customer sales."


    Isn't that what Zeek's doing?

  171. Just to clarify a few things, alongside Troy Dooly here

    1) "Zeek is a scheme" — I cannot find that quote as written using the built-in Custom Google Search. Can you provide a more specific URL? I know Oz had written several time that ZeekRewards had previously advertised itself as an "investment scheme with 125% ROI". Is that what you were referring to?

    2) "Zeek is in trouble with AG's office"… not sure where you got *that* from. The only title that came close was "NC AG's Office Deny Stating 'Zeek is legal'"

    3) "Zeek is a Ponzi" there's plenty of circumstantial evidence supporting this view, as there is little to no proven source of real paying customers providing revenue to be shared. Guess this is where our opinions differ.

    Troy is correct, only a court can DEFINITIVELY say whether a scheme is a Ponzi or not, but a court and its officers can subpoena records and grab a company's accounts and books and audit them, a power we are NOT privy to. As no Ponzi schemer is going to admit he ran a Ponzi until the end (Madoff only admitted so when he ran out of $$$) for people demanding EXACT proof such may not be forthcoming.

    So the question becomes: how much circumstantial evidence do you think constitutes "cause for alarm"? That is a personal question I leave up to the individual reader.

    4) "Zeek was using offshore banks" I can find no such quote. All I found is "Zeek Rewards make no mention of who their new bank(s) is/are, or whether they are based in the US or are located offshore"

    5) There is only ONE blogger at BehindMLM, OzSoapbox. I have my own hub and blog(s).

    Thus, based on the above analysis, your "claim" of such "mistakes", "strong statements" made by Oz (and me) seem to be somewhat… biased? Sensationalized? Exaggerated? Embellished?

  172. Is it really relevant?

    If they're not in, you'll insist that only those inside really understand the system.

    If they're in, you'll insist they're "traitors", or "they're not compliant", or "they're not seeing the whole picture".

    (Already spotted multiple reports in the support forum of one member "ratting" out another posting negative comments about Zeek elsewhere, and a Zeek employee promised to "look into it")

    Maybe they just want their money, like any and all of you? After all, why are you in Zeek? You want $$$.

    Why shouldn't they want their $$$, even if they seem to realize that Zeek has problems, and may POTENTIALLY be illegal? You can't withdraw money from Zeek. You can only set RPP to 0% repurchase and cash out as much as you can, over some period of time.

    Your attempt to cast some doubt of "hypocrisy" is interesting, but ultimately irrelevant. You are all after the SAME THING. You just have different risk acceptability levels, so it makes no sense to call him out on it. YOU have your own level of risk acceptability, he has his.

  173. You can always post them over on my hub. I only delete outright spam and verbal threats and WAY-OFF-TOPIC posts.

  174. @John — my personal observation is most Zeek supporters do NOT look at all the facts. They debate one part at a time. Indeed, Greg and others don't even BOTHER dissecting my evidence and logic any more. They simply state flat out "they are biased, don't listen to them".

    Why not? Biased info is still info, is it not? You can filter out the bias… if there is one.

    All *I* want is for you to go in with your eyes open, after you are exposed to ALL the factors that could affect your decision. THEN you know EXACTLY what you are getting into.

    And talking about such factors is how information is spread.

    And who doesn't want information, except all the people so busy dodging "negativity"?

    What conclusion *I* draw is irrelevant. It is what conclusions *you* draw that is important for you.

  175. Greg, if you can show my evidence that proves I am wrong, you are welcome to post them here and/or on my hub. Indeed, I invited ALL Zeek supporters to a civil debate: you present your side, as I've presented mine.

    Instead, I get comments like yours like "you're just biased", "you can't handle the truth", and so on and so forth.

    You can debate a premise two days: take a part the evidence and logic of the premise and prove them to be wrong, or prove the COUNTER-premise.

    You have done NEITHER.

  176. You are welcome to your OPINION, Steve. As long as you don't try to represent your OPINION as fact, I have no opinion on your opinion.

    There are several Zeek "defenders" who visit my hub and insist that a premise, properly supported by logic and evidence is "opinion", "guesswork", and "innuendos".

    If that's true, then a thought not supported by any evidence or logic would be an outright lie.

    And that's just a ridiculous train of thought.

  177. Your calculations are a bit off. I built a spreadsheet and have actually tested it against someone's actual results over the last two months — and it has tracked accurately.

    According to my spreadsheet, using a theoretical 1.4% profit share each day, an initial 10,000 bid purchase and reinvesting 100% of the points, after 1,000 days the VIP point balance would be almost 2.2 million (not 14M). Using a 1.3% daily profit share would result in only 338,000 points after 1000 days. At 1.25% the 1000 day point balance would be only 121,000.

  178. I have to ask … Why does Zeek get so much negative attention from the critics?

    Zeek is pretty much out there … No matter how much they disclose the critics just demand more.

    There are a select few that will not rest because they are convinced that Zeek is some sort of evil money game.

    So … I have dug into Mr Oz's site.. Where is the research on the obvious unsavory schemes.. JBP, Royalty7, Silver Structure and the like. They are obvious schemes and yet they do not attract these guys attention. (maybe just a little blip here and there)

    The agenda is obvious. If people are not going to Google and searching the Silver Structure it does not benefit these so called investigative reporters in writing a "sensational" article.

    It is all about feeding their family… want proof?

    Google zeek rewards… It comes up with negative post from BMLM…. Google Royalty7 or Just Been Paid.. Where are you OZ?

    I have on good authority that I will not divulge here (to protect my source) That Oz is an investor in Just Been Paid… And yet he publicly attacks Zeek on a daily basis.

    I also have on very good authority that Oz has sunk thousands into Royalty7. Again I cant give my sources because I need to protect them.

    I also have a source that says Oz and his minions meet every Friday night and worship the shaved rabbit from Macedonia.

    Ofcourse, I cant make public my sources for obvious reasons… The bottom line is. Stop speculating.

    It is all about traffic… It is all about that little banner ad at the top of his page… remove the income stream and then report and you may gain my respect.

    It is actually to the point of being sickening, I really dont give a crap if you believe in Zeek or not. Report verifiable facts or just go away.

    Sure a few things typed here were meant to prove a point (like the rabbit)… Well except for the Just Been Paid comment… Do You REALLY want to go there Mr. Oz?

    The Floor is Yours… But be warned. Think long and hard before you respond.

  179. @GlimDropper,

    One of the key points the Judge made in his final opinion was the fact 3% of sales outside of the compensation plan, was not enough in his opinion to warrant a viable network marketing business model (my words, his are more professional sounding).

    Burn Lounge for several years did not listen to their legal counsel on changes that they needed to make in order to get fully compliant based on the laws. I feel had they listened to their counsel, they might have never had issues. They are still appealing the judges ruling, but in reading it, he made some good points, and some I disagree with.

    Yes I believe you are correct. When an affiliate purchases for their own use, it is a retail sale, and will pay through the compensation plan. As for the additional bids to the upline, I am not sure, I do remember reading something on that. I believe those additional bids are to be given away, and can't be used by the upline for VIP auctions.

    I am not sure the additional VIP bids are used for point increase in the RPP. I was part of a conversation a couple of months ago on this subject, but will need to review my notes, then ask the folks at Zeek to be sure.

    Since I have no clue on any 1.4% of anything, I can;t answer that. I know where you are coming from with the percentage, but I have never been told anything by Zeek on how they calculate their gross and net revenues and how they determine what to pay those who qualify for the RPP.

    You have a great point on the Accountants, and I will ask about that this next Red Carpet Day about accountants. I do know there have been some interviews, based on some of the new banking partners, but I do not know much about what they are doing.

    I agree fully on the need of a good accounting firm. As a matter of fact, thinking abut this line of thought for a second, I would predict that Rex Venture Group may have already headed down this road, knowing there is a good chance the N.C. AG will eventually send them a CID asking for specific internal information to determine if there are any changes they must make, and to determine the size of any administrative fine he may want to impose.

    But, then again, I could be wrong, Lord knows we sometimes think of things long before those on the inside do at times.

    I do like your train of thought, and although I am not sure how many questions would get answered to us. I do think just having audited financials would be a help. Not much maybe, since Enron had audited financials from one of the most respected accounting firms of the day. But it would be a start.

  180. I too have read the above comments with great interest.

    I joined Zeek about 7 months ago and am impressed with their integrity and business plan

    They have had huge issues with growth but have communicated with the affiliates at all times and issues are resolved as speedily as possible.

    I am a nurse in my 60's and had almost given up hope of being able to retire and do the things I'm really passionate about.

    I now draw $4000 plus every week and can dream about the possibilites in my life rather than the problems.

    I put in a lot less than $10,000 but have built a downline of 170 and all of these people are as excited as I am.

    I am very grateful to this company for the opportunities they have given me and the future that is so very different from that of just 7 months ago

  181. @e,

    Heck, I just wanted to see how it felt to be a whiner… It sucked, so back to business. 🙂

    And I don't think your an a**hole at all. Passionate for sure, but not an A**hole.

  182. I just seen a $150 gift card with a bid at $18 it got there a penny at a time it takes 100 pennys to make a dollar.

    $18 x 100 = $1800 taken in so far on a $150 gift card.

    There are free bid auctions and Premier auctions, to bid in the premier auctions you have to buy bids. this is a win win deal for the winning bidder, the affiliate, and the company. This is helping people. Thanks Zeek

  183. @e Really, REALLY! you have got to be joking i was in monvie for over a year and lost thousands of dollars.

    The funny thing was the leaders told us the failures that would happen and to just keep going. I’ve been in zeek for less that 2 months and have made money. More than what i can say for monavie. Oh unless monavie changed it was all about recruiting and most of the customers of monavie are distributors. there are black diamonds leaving monavie.

  184. (This reply was meant for the exchange with Oz but that had reached it's reply limit)

    Troy, was a key point in the BurnLounge decision centered upon the fact that the "majority" of the money being paid affiliates did not come from retail customers?

    When a free ZR affiliate purchases bids to use at the Zeekler site for personal consumption (a retail sale) does their immediate referrer not receive a number of VIP points equal to the number of bids purchased? Please do accept my thanks for correcting me if I'm wrong.

    If true this would mean that every direct retail sale of bids to people not opting to join the comp plan is coupled with a matching total of VIP points which carry with them and average rate of "value increase" of about 1.4% per day for the next 90 days.

    Think about that, every retail sale is coupled with an "expectation to reward" substantially more money than the value of each sale. How will the majority of funds used to pay the affiliates come from people who aren't part of the comp plan?

    I know you are very impressed with the attorneys and consultants that ZR has hired. But do you know what would be even more impressive, if ZR hired accountants.

    Might I ask you to make a suggestion to Paul and Dawn? Recommend they hire a respected and qualified accounting firm to take an endoscopic look at all of Zeekler's and ZR's financials.

    We both know ZR (or any company for that matter) would never just publish all their audited financial information but we don't need that. I don't care how much Paul gets paid or how much they spend on office supplies. None of that is important.

    But there are a few VERY important questions that can only be answered by someone who knows what the real numbers are. What is the ratio of revenue generated by the Zeekler auction site divided by the total VIP compensation rewarded to ZR affiliates in any given month being only one example of the type of question I'm referring to.

    Let's put our heads together and make that list of questions. Then ZR hires an accredited and independent accounting firm and gives them complete access to all of ZR's financials. Then, after a full audit has been performed the accounting firm answers all those questions and signs their names (and reputations) to that report. The auditors would also be bound by confidentiality to never reveal anything other than the answers to that list of questions.

    If the Zeekler auction platform, Shopping Daisy, FSC, NewNetMail combine to generate enough revenue to sustain payouts to ZR affiliates, congratulations they just made all their critics look like idiots.

    My not in any way bold prediction, ZR will NEVER agree to do this.

  185. Troy, I too appreciate all of the info that you give regarding Zeek Rewards.

    As a Sr. Executive and a year-long affiliate, I am befuddled by the lack of communication by ZR!

    I truly hope the new CIO (or whatever he/she is) starts to work on Monday. The silence from ZR is deafening.

    I have several people longing to sign up, but I will not extend my reputation any more until certain things clear up.

    By the way….. I'm still waiting for my 7/9 payment.


  186. I don't know how to reply to your last post…I sent you an email by the way. Ok Marine (compliment)…would you please stop whining about the attacking thing. You want to make me out to be an a**hole, fine, you've made your point. You sure are milking that for all it's worth. I wasn't attacking anyone but you and I told you why (because I was pissed off at you and in a heated mood because I didn't feel like you were being honest) and I said I'm sorry. I felt like you are weak in your interviews with Dawn and not an objective 3rd party and many agree with me on this point. (Was that another attack?) Doesn't mean I don't respect you.

    Why are you making this about me and you anyway? We're discussing zeek. Can we stop replying to each other for awhile…this whole blogging thing is wearing me out and getting annoying.

  187. Troy,

    I have not heard any information on either teh Red Carpet show form this month, neither have i heard anything more about the Global Seminar in Nashville , Tn in Nov. An update please!!!!

  188. @e,

    I was not making a point on your joining. But you seem to feel I was the only one at the ANMP who is not willing to call Zeek a ponzi, and Peter has from day one promoted Zeek, I on the other hand, do not promote Zeek, but I do present both sides of the argument.

    I do not think you have ever watched this video on my position. Although, you may still feel I am endorsing Zeek, which is your right.


    My point on the MonaVie haters, is the fact I debate them just as hard as I do Zeek. But, I have never seen you stating I endorse MonaVie, or ever even commenting on one of the editorials over the years. heck, I am not ever sure you have ever been to the front page of this community, based on some of your limited answers to things.

    You based your judgement of me endorsing Zeek on my actions, which are the same actions I take for MonaVie and others. Either I am endorsing all companies or I am reporting on the facts and offering opinions. By the way I do endorse some companies and loudly.

  189. I have read through all of the comments above and find them very interesting. The people that I come in contact with everyday are common, everyday hardworking people trying to make a living. They don't have the luxury of buying 10,000 bids at a time and being concerned about being a millionaire in 1500 days or such. Most are coming into Zeek as free, silver or gold affiliates, placing their ad everyday and excited with the increase in their points which means dollars in their future pockets. Zeek has given many HOPE again … two or three hundred dollars a month means better food on the table, clothes for their children or gas in their car. They are grateful for a home base business that they feel they can actually do and be successful at. Maybe it's naive, but most wouldn't even understand compliance laws, regulators and such. They do believe in ZEEK tho – trust in it's leadership and have faith that the company will continue to grow. Here's to Zeek!!!

  190. @e,

    When you attack people, it is seen as talking down to them. It comes across as if you are the superior person and they are clueless in their decisions. I would not want you to stop answering the questions as you see them, that is always a good thing. However, the delivery in how you answer may be something to think about.

    Yes, you could ask me "who I am to argue with Oz, Kchang and Patrick, but I do not see your point. And if you really watch my interaction, you will see I ask just about as many questions as I do giving answers. My arguments are based on years of personal experience inside of network marketing, owning, running and building. I also draw off of wisdom of reading countless court documents, and from being in the financial service arena for close to two decades both as a broker and later as a partner in a mergers and Acquisition firm. And even then I refer to other consultants and legal minds when I have questions brought up by Patrick, Oz, and kChang.

    I have never basked them personally, and make it very clear with folks I respect where they are coming from as advocates against scams.

    Delivery is what I am talking about, not in changing your beliefs.

    Again, you missed my point. I have argued and debated in favor of MonaVie with critics who have made it clear, they believe all Monavie reps promote MonaVie as I described. I am sure you do not build that way. And while we are on this topic, could it be that not all Zeek affiliates build it, like a ponzi?

    And, I am sure, your organization are consumers. But for clarity, are you saying you made Blue Diamond by attracting 80% or 90% of your organization in just customers, who buy the juice (or other products) at retail, and are not part of the compensation structure at all, and could not recruit anyone if they wanted, or at least not until they upgraded to a distributor?

    I understand your desire for me to provide names of just customers who are not a part of the compensation plan. And all you need to do is take the time to read through these threads and you will find affiliates who have talked about this. You can also go to the editorial on Zeekler and see where I do mention the fact the Zeekler traffic is at least in part different from Zeek Rewards, indicating people who go to Zeekler are not affiliates of Zeek Rewards.

    Since my role is not to prove or disprove that Zeek Rewards is perfect, but to provide a balance of information, I have not requested any names of people. Plus based on the facts we have at hand, that affiliates, critics and just about everyone else will want to talk to them live on the phone, that would not be wise on my part.

    Plus, the network marketing community got that part of the Business Opportunity Bill chopped.

    the part you left out, is the fact to qualify for all compensation at Zeek Rewards affiliate must be on autoship just like any other company. And like many network marketing companies, there are people making 10K and 15K per week.

    And I fully understand how some folks pitch Zeek, and I have never denied that. As a matter of fact, if you had been watching a couple of weeks ago, you would know I did a whole video on that very subject after listening to a recorded call from a Zeek affiliate to a national radio show host.

    Just like MonaVie and other companies have rogue reps who do not promote the business correctly so does Zeek. Seriously, we are not far off on the issues, I am just not willing to toss Zeek under the bus. Instead I am willing to fight for the affiliates by working to clean up the rogue affiliates and provide advice to Zeek leadership when I run across areas I think they should change to push out any ponzi promoters, such as those who might promote Zeek like they did ASD.

    I have always made it clear my position on the business model. It is you my soon to be new friend, who has yet gone through each video to see what I have said. Instead you jump to conclusions, thinking I am in some way endorsing Zeek and the unique bid auctions.

    I think we are getting closer, but we still have a ways to go to see were are fighting the same frustrations.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  191. @Chuck,

    Several folks have sent me the same frustrations. It seems the eWallets are going through some of their own issues as Zeek. With thousands of Zeek affiliates sending in verification documents, they are getting behind. I have asked Zeek to look into this and see what can be done. If Zeek gets the new solution up and running for commissions, I think this will stop being an issue.

  192. @Oz,

    Your points are valid, and you share a great counter point to my argument.

    I would suggest in the example of murderer, that even if someone thinks they saw the person commit the murder, and are an eyewitness, the accused is still provided their day in court, and when new evidence is presented may walk out of the court a free person, because it has been proven, what the eye witness thought they saw was not accurate.

    Which is my bottom line point. I understand you disagree and I respect that. But until all of us have all the facts on how the company is run from the math side, showing all the income streams and where they are generated. We can only make subjective propositions based on the limited information we have at hand.

    I can't say with final conclusion that I am right or you are right. I can look at your argument, and see that it has merit, and is worth sharing with the world. At the same time I am very clear with all, that I can't provide a solid conclusion that I am right and a regulatory agency and ultimately a court of law would not rule unique bid auctions in general or a specific company like Zeek, BidiFy, Bids that Give or even Dubli might not in the future be seen as a ponzi.

    My only objective and agenda is to provide open discussion.

    Thank you Oz, for adding value here in my community. You are always welcome.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  193. @Oz,

    I did answer it. I thought I was clear. I do not have the answer, at least not officially from the company.

    I do know the majority of the affiliates who have and are joining Zeek are not on any monthly subscription, and it does not look as it they are upgrading to a paying subscription, at this time, which if my understanding is correct, they do not qualify for the RPP bonus. Which would bring me to a subjective conclusion that the money they are making is coming the matrix and from the 20% on personal sales. And of the folks in the field I have talked with privately, they have confirmed the majority of their income is from the matrix, not the RPP. But, this has been a limited number of top and middle leaders, not a good sampling of the worldwide affiliate base.

    Based on the information I have, no the bulk of the commissions are not coming from the RPP.

    Maybe I can push for a new IDS, and that might tell us a little more on this issue.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  194. @e,

    Well I respect you and your friends beliefs, and I have strong beliefs of my own. But I do not go around attacking those who disagree with me. That is what terrorists and fringe-Christians seem to do to people. Well, and a few really strange political pendants this time of year. As a personally sponsored Blue Diamond of Brig, isn't this the type of leadership style he teaches… to listen and learn?

    You and tour friends feel I have done fluff pieces, while the proponents feel I have provided far more info than Zeek themselves at times. And the critics, feel I have a positive answer for all of Zeek's issues. The reality is, all of you are correct. There are a few times, when my editorials, have not come from me, but from 3rd party information such as Network Marketing News Journal, and at other times I have only responded to what a critic has written to balance the information found on the net.

    yet, when you or anyone takes the time to truly watch each video, read the editorials, and then follow through with the comments I have responded, then and only then can you get the full picture. I know you do not have time to do this kind of due diligence, you have a team to build and in some cases save, from joining Zeek. But here is what you would find….

    1. Unique Bid Auctions, Zeek and BidiFy specifically have some major red flags they must overcome to become new category creators and maintain longevity.

    2. the unique bid auction niche is young, and the biggest player in the niche is DubLi and their auctions are not their flagship product any longer, it is gift cards. Although, they auctions are very successful, they do not compare to the 6000 daily gift cards sold under face value.

    3. I have addressed each of Zeek's and BidiFy's issues and contacted the executives, attorneys and consultants to get answers. Once I have those answers I publish them, and then the debate takes place.

    4. No where have I ever endorsed Zeek or any other company. However, in the majority if not all reports, I have made it clear anyone joining the unique bid auctions, should do some deep due diligence to make sure they fully understand the business model, and the risks.

    As for your personal philosophy of attacking me to call me out and wake me up. Well you might want to rethink that philosophy. All that does is tick people off. Nobody likes to be called names and yelled at, privately or publicly. The golden Rule works so much better, and it is what I do my best to live by. It doesn't matter if it is you or a company like Zeek.

    I'll take it even deeper. My mentor taught me a rule to live by called the 101% rule. Find 1% I can agree on, with someone I am knocking heads with, than I am to give that 1%, 100% of my focus. I know we will never agree about Zeek, but we can sure agree on MonaVie. Hey, I have an idea, why don't I do a new editorial on MonaVie and use your success as the feature story. We can do a live interview on the phone and then I can place it in the editorial. it's been a couple of years since I have done a stand along report on them, and with the MonaVie 2.0 in full swing, you can share your insights. If you are game, then send me a private message at troydooly@mlmhelpdesk.com

    Everyone places so much focus on Dawn, yet she is doesn't make the decisions on any of the issues you and others want to know about. Paul Burks is the person we need an interview with or some of his right hand leaders who are all in Lexington. I am not completely clear on what I might have said that caused you to feel I was acting as an attorney. the only time I can think of where I stopped a question from being answered was when Jim Gillhouse asked a setup question from a listener on Aces Radio Live. And that was not to protect Dawn as much as it was Jim and I. Herbalife has just been asked a similar question a couple of weeks earlier by a Einhorn on their investor's call. Because the CFO did not answer it correctly their stock fell 33% overnight. If the CFO of a billion dollar business can't answer the question correctly to satisfy one of the world's most respected short-sellers, why would I want to get Jim and I wrapped up in the middle of the same issue with Zeek?

    #2. I fully respect your belief that Zeek is a Ponzi. And, although I do not feel it fits the ponzi model, I have never tried to change the mind of anyone who feels that way. All I do is present a different picture so folks can get both sides of the ponzi issue, and make an informed decision.

    But let me ask you a question. Is it really Zeek that is the issue, or do you feel the whole MLM unique Bid Auction niche is a ponzi? I personally know several of your friends in Zeek and some are also in other unique bid auction companies.

    And again, I challenge you to show me one time where I have endorsed Zeek, telling folks to join or that if I were building again I would join Zeek? And, although I can't publicly disclose names, there are hundreds if not thousands or emails, phone calls and texts where I have talked folks out of joining Zeek or any other unique bid auction company in the network marketing arena.

    And again, when I debate the critics who hate MonaVie and call it a pyramid scheme, do you feel this is my endorsement of MonaVie? maybe you should go watch the video I did on this very subject, to get a far deeper understanding of my passion instead of attacking. The top levels of network marketing are way to small for you to just go around attacking people you have never met, or taken time to get to know. Our community needs leaders who are willing to address the hard issue while collaborating together to create best practices and solid examples of what is means to be in network marketing.

    #3. Your answer does shed light on the fact you have never read my bio. Take some time to read it, then maybe you will realize in a small way why I now focus on promoting the whole profession of network marketing, and not just one company any longer. Then if you run with Onyx Cole, Orrin Woodward, Tracy Utterbach or even Dallin or Randy, you can ask them a little more about my passion for this profession, and how I have supported them individually and MonaVie over the years. I am sure you do have credibility, and if I have ever seemed to question your credibility, then please forgive me, that would never be my intent.

    #4. Not sure what your response has to do with the ANMP. Everything you just mentioned has happened at MonaVie and other companies over the years. Although, I have personally addressed the deal making that goes on, I am also well aware that all company owners have a right to invest in sales and leadership talent as they see fit. Dallin who is the #1 proponent of Free Agents fully understands, to do it right, you must disclose all deals. I top leader should be paid what they are worth. But what they should not do is rape their former downline. If they can't build a second or third time organically, then they should stay at home.

    But, either you want to be a part of the solution or you don't. You or anyone can make allegations, but unless you are willing to stand for what is right, and help make changes, then what right do you have to question anything? Seriously, the only way change takes place is for a few people to be willing to stand for what is right. You seem to want to attack, but are not willing to help.

    Since I know everyone on the Board at the ANMP, I am not sure who you are referring, but I know all of them who are distributors have all built at least two organizations from scratch, before any would have been offered what we would call a deal. I know of one who has successfully, built five organizations from scratch in different companies, in different countries, never cross recruiting. It is not dublicatable, but it does work for him.

    It is not about popularity, it is about protecting the heritage of this great profession and community. As a second generation network marketer, with two of my son's now in companies and growing them, I for one want to make sure we leave this profession better than we found it. I know the opportunity is still strong, I interview folks weekly who are brand new, never been in before, and who are now earning six figures. And in some cases while they are still in school.

    Sadly, you are placing your energies on Zeek. If you are dead set on focusing on the issue as you see it, then at least hit the whole unique bid auction niche. Zeek, is just one player. BidiFy is coming on strong, and the new company which is really strange should get your dander really flying because they lead with buy bids to save poor orphaned children.

    I accept your apology. You said things based on very limited knowledge of who I am, what I stand for, and my tenure and success at every level in network marketing. Lord knows I have made so many misjudgments over the years, I can't count. Plus my wife and kids remind me daily. Without a doubt, I am sure you are far more successful financially than I have been. But thank goodness, network marketing allows me to work from home on this island raising our six kids and three grand daughters, while serving the greatest people I have ever met.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  195. Exactly my point…no communication. Isn't it great that you have information but the average affiliate does not. What I am looking for is communication…ongoing, all the time…communication. Not some post about change your passwords, real effective communication which responds to the things that are not working, and a timeline for fixing them.

    I have read through a lot of your posts and comments. Im still waiting for bids purchased on June 23rd with STP as are a lot of others. I have yet to see a…"this is why it happened…" statement and "…this is what we are doing to fix it…and it will be done by this date…" I should also not have to come here for that kind of information. I should be getting it from Zeek not mlmhelpdesk.

    I saw today that a member did finally get there june 23rd bids…of course they missed out on the bids they would have gained during the three weeks they were waiting for them. So heres hoping next week we will all see something.

  196. What are you talking about? Who am I talking down to in network marketing? I'm answering a question the way I see it, not talking down to anyone. I could also say who are you to argue with Oz or Kchang or Patrick Petty.

    Furthermore, I never pitch MonaVie that way. You see, you must hang around people that do network marketing that way to come to that understanding. You know nothing about how I build the business. 80-90% of my organization are consumers of the product that have nothing to do with building the business. And guess what…they're real living breathing consumers that I could introduce you to. MB, OZ and Kchang have been asking people to prove they have real consumers buying bids for months now. Not to many people (if any) have come forward.

    If you know a bunch of people buying retail bids and you know Zeek distributors with lot's of paying consumers, then show us and end the debate right now and will all owe you an apology.

    Now, I have friends in Zeek earning 10K to 15K a week. This is first hand knowledge. Jimmy also has first hand knowledge so your argument is weak re: all you have to do is put money, get other investors, do your daily ad, and you'll make money. THIS IS HOW ZEEK IS PITCHED TROY, REGARDLESS OF COMPLIANCE COURSES! And you know what, until you can prove us wrong…this is exactly how the program works.

    Can you just please admit the business model seems a little fishy? Just a little bit Troy. I'm being nice now and professional and I'm not attacking you.

  197. @e,

    We could all use a little of that from time to time. I sure am glad He is willing to not judge and give folks second chances. 🙂

  198. @John,

    Without a doubt, the unique bid auctions are a controversial subject. I have done my best to show the facts and publish my opinions on each one. I must say I have learned allot on the subject since 2009 when I first started covering the niche with DubLi.

    The one thing I have learned is I am not the judge and jury of any company. I want to report everything we can find on the companies and their founders, and help balance the debate when it seems only the critical or negative info is being presented. I do this for traditional network marketing companies and leaders as well, but what seems to be the topic of the day is the Zeek story.

    Even here, I do not see many folks talking or questioning what I write on BidiFy, DubLi or Bids That Give. But they sure get heated on both sides when it comes to Zeek.

    Lord knows I have no clue where the unique bid auctions will go, or even what might happen to the companies involved today. I just know the facts, subjective conclusions and opinions from both sides must be allowed to continue.

    And John… When you disagree with me, feel free to tell me privately or publicly. I have no problem, learning and changing my mind when I realize I have not had all the facts, or I was viewing the facts incorrectly.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  199. Ok. My reply back to you re ANMP is the main issue. Once you pull it out of moderation you can read it. Peter Mingles being the trainer for Zeek…ha ha…not a big selling point on me joining.

    Maybe you haven't officially came out and said "I endorse Zeek", but it just really, really appears so…which is your right.

    As far as people hating MonaVie and their bad press…what does that have to do with Zeek issues. Lot's of people hate NWM in general. For the record, MonaVie has it's own set of issues and challenges and I'm just as vocal about them to members of corporate as I am re: zeek.

  200. Troy you are awesome! And for all of you critics who are going to say I'm drinking Zeeks cool-aid, I am NOT a Zeek affiliate, but I do love what Troy is trying to accomplish here!

    Go build your businesses and quit whining about your down-line leaving for Zeek it's like a guy who abuses his wife complaining that she divorced him…Duh. Some MLM companies have been abusing the little guy for years and the only reason the big guys are complaining is because there income is Dropping like mad.It's not about your affiliates and protecting them.

    It's not about zeek its about you.It's your income that you are concerned about. Because if it was about your little people you would never allow them to be a part of a comp-plan with a binary. BInary? Huh? little guy?

    That's suicide and all of you know it. Here is a fact,if they were making the type of money that they need to survive, no company would be able to attract them away from you.

    Do the math, traditional MLM is gone by way of the dinosaur. Get with the new or DIE with the old….:-)

    Keep up the great work Troy!!! And all you ZEEKERS out there keep doing it big!:-)

  201. @e,

    Not sure why you few the ANMP is confused at all. We are there to educate, protect and support the network marketing profession.

    Rod is not a fan of unique bid auctions at all. Ruth is a wonderful lady, and I was sadden to her she was pulling back due to health issues. I am keeping her in my prayers. Love that lady.

    You seem so informed, but you do not seem to realize the former President of the ANMP (5 years) and current V.P. of the ANMP is Peter Mingles, the person who does all the training for Zeek Rewards. It would seem to me, someone who has done their due diligence on Zeek and the ANMP would know this important fact.

    I would hate to be a part of any association or organization that did not allow for more than one opinion on an issue. It does make up for some great conversation, but at least we do not act like a cult, where everyone always votes based on the majorities opinion. Instead we all vote our minds, then follow the majority rule.

    Again, seems to me, if you feel there is confusion, then you should join and help clear it up. What's $50 to a Blue Diamond in MonaVie. heck, I will gladly nominate you to the Board so you can help lead the association and help all distributors worldwide.

    I do have a question for you. I had the team run a scan to see where I endorsed Zeek. They could not find anything that resembles an endorsement. They found where I endorsed, Rastelli Direct, 21Ten, Youngevity, VEMMA and even MonaVie, but I have never endorsed the unique bid auctions. Can you please provide me the link where you saw me endorsing Zeek or any other unique bid auction?

    What is a little funny to me, is when you go to critics sites like http://amthrax.wordpress.com/ who hate MonaVie and some of the leaders there, they have called me out like you have for endorsing MonaVie and some of its leaders. Why is it when people bring up a side of a debate or argument, that you feel they are endorsing the company instead of trying to just get all the facts and issues on the table?

  202. I don't really know Troy. I see the auction now with a lot more items. I only saw a vacuum cleaner and a couple gift cards before. Maybe it was a server glitch.

  203. @Lucas,

    Not sure why you feel nothing happened at Zeek this week. Many things took place all week long. A new CTO was hired, a new communications director was hired. Someone got a promotion to President and CMO, and much more. Now, I will agree, Zeek has yet to make those announcements, so I can't drop the names of all these folks, but to say nothing happened is not correct. Saying you did not know any of this, or had heard of it, would be more accurate.

    Now, if you are looking for some specific answers to your individual issues, then please send me an email and I will get your issues straight to the top.

    Not sure where you have been, but we have addressed the STP issues and the late commissions so many times here in this community, that I am not sure how you missed it. Take some time and read through the comment threads if you are seriously needing answers.

    Talked to Dawn daily, and yep new video will be coming, after Zeek is ready to announce some of the new changes 🙂

    Agian, if you have some specific issues send them to me. Include your Zeek ID.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  204. @e,

    Again I must clarify and correct just a couple of items, you did not fully explain or disclose. But you may not have the answers.

    1. There is a huge customer service team, based in Atlanta and overseas. they receive 3000 contacts per day, and since the average connection takes close to an hour to answer, there is no way to handle them all. But with over 100 reps and still growing, and some new technology to help out they will get a handle on it soon.

    2. Do you have a specific ticket that did not get answered? I know several affiliates have sent me tickets, and I have sent them directly to the top for action. If you know of one have the affiliate contact me.

    3. I fully disagree with you here. Zeek loves to get feedback form the affiliates. I watch this happen every month at the Red Carpet Day and online both. Where do you get this belief from?

    4. You just do not understand the e-Wallet situation, or just don't want to admit it. Zeek clarified the situation in detail at Zeek Rewards News. Now I do admit the e-Wallets suck, and I would never use one. And thank goodness Rex Venture Group is working on a solid solution for this issue.

    5. the Auctions are NOT the entire reason behind the Zeek business model, but it is the flagship program at the moment, replacing the Free Shopping Stores as the flagship product. And from what we have all seen, the new shopping mall may very well replace the auctions as the flagship program, just like they did at DubLi.

    6. Where do you get your facts on no retail customers bidding on the auctions? Your comment is like saying MonaVie has enough retail customers buying the flagship juice at retail to sustain the compensation structure. When the reality is that folks would rather pay wholesale by joining the compensation structure and getting it at a discount, even it they never sponsor anyone in the binary.

    You did not get the positive side right either. Affiliates can't just put in a lump sum of money, get others to do the same, place one ad a day, and you get rich. You are close, but not correct. 🙂

    But, it does sound a little like MonaVie… All you have to do is get people to join the binary, buy one or two cases of the Juice at a discount instead of retail, and then get others to do the same, and Bam! you will become rich! It doesn't matter of you drink it all or give it away, just stay on the $100 to $200 autoship and keep the rest of your team on autoship and Bam! you will be rich. By the way, if you are really good, and get a lot of folks to do it, then you can qualify for a higher rank, and qualify for an additional spot in the binary and do it again.

    If you are looking to promote a $100,000 ponzi there is one called Banner Brokers!

    I really think your heart is in the right place with out a doubt, but your delivery is a little lacking in diplomacy. Attacking and talking down to people, some who have been far more successful than you in traditional network marketing, may not be the best way to deliver your message.

  205. @e,

    I am not sure if you realize there are more than just the penny auctions. Not sure how much additional volume is generated, but from what I have seen and heard from affiliates the Free Shopping Stores are generating some solid revenue for some affiliates. Plus, yuo may not realize but the majority of Zeek Rewards affiliates are free affiliates and do not qualify for the Retail Profit Pool, they get their commissions like you do in MonaVie, though the standard compensation plan. In this case a matrix, instead of the binary.

    Again, where are you getting your active auction number? I just checked and there are 138 active auctions at Zeekler. And this is at 12:34 pm July 14, 2012.

  206. @e,

    You must be selling a boatload of stuff. 🙂

    Seriously, exactly how much sales volume do you calculate will be generated from the sale of bids and the final auction price of the 138 active auctions rolling right now?

    Second question, where do you get the figure "millions in commissions" today? I have not seen anything close to that, and based on the current IDS, it does not seem to be millions daily.

    I am not sure what you are reviewing to get to your number of 4. There are currently 138 auctions running, and the average has been 300 daily over the last few months. I know when they shut down the credit cards on Zeekler then number did go down, but once they opened it back up, the numbers went up to around an average of 1200 auctions per week.

    I would not say common sense is bad, but it is not what the regulators look at, they just want the cold hard facts. Which as you and I both know can be hard to come by in any company. Let's say your company as an example. I have never seen them break out their numbers or retail volume vs. internal volume. As a matter of fact not even the public companies do it. Lord knows if we can just get everyone to finally stop playing the gray area game, we might get through some of this crap.

  207. @e,

    Value is always added when two people debate all sides of an issue. But, for clarity sake I do need to address just a couple of things.

    2. I am not sure where you get your math from… On average over the last few months there have been 300 auctions rolling per day. Right now July 14th, 2012 there are 138 auctions running. So I am not sure where you get the #3 from. And with QuiBids running 8000 daily auctions on average Zeekler does have a ways to go get #1.

    3. the daily average of CS connections is 3000. So any company having 3000 CS calls per days, will have issues. As a matter of fact ViSalus's biggest issue right now is CS. Any company growing is going to have CS issues, but it is the one areas that must be addressed in any company if they want to maintain growth.

    4. It looks far less like ASD today, than it did in Dec. 2011, before they took some solid advice and made changes.

  208. I believe we add value to the discussion, unless these points aren't of any value to anyone:

    1. e-wallet problems, people not getting paid.

    2. lousy penny auction that's supposed to generate millions in sales volume (4 items are listed right now, around the $100 price point).

    3. zeek distributors constantly crying no customer support

    4. it's resemblance to Ad Surf Daily a ponzi scheme

    Do I really need to continue? Which of these points, Kevin, are of no value to you?

  209. Troy, my garage sale will do more in sales volume today than the Zeekler penny auction. How is it that millions of dollars in commissions will get paid out today (or e-wallet funded)? Please help with the math. They want to be the next QuiBids right? 4 lousy items are listed all around the $100 price point? Is that formula proprietary also…turning a few hundred bucks into millions?

    I guess I shouldn't try to use common sense to figure this stuff out.

  210. And Morten, all of that volume comes from the penny auction products! Amazing! Right now as we speak there are 4 items…$100 Sephora Gift Card, A hoover vacuum, 100 bid pack, and a $200 best buy gift card.

    There's got to be at least 2 million people trying to win those 4 items! Go Zeek!!!

  211. I am happy that Oz provided the definition of Ponzi scheme, because it has helped me decide that Zeek Rewards is clearly NOT a Ponzi.

    My brother got into a Ponzi. He went to a big dinner in Vegas. Doctors and lawyers and lots of rich folks were among those who were sucked into the scheme. As specified in definition, there was no "enterprise". All of the money being paid out was coming from the investors. Clearly a Ponzi!

    It is clear to me that there is an existing enterprise here (as a matter of fact several existing enterprises). And it is clear that there aren't "quick returns" :). I'm no lawyer, but if that's the definition, I think I could win this case!

    I know that ZR will not be able to support the affiliates indefinitely with the current growth. At some point the money will slow down and quit flowing, even if 100% of the commission is coming from the auction. So why does it matter? You have to go into any business with your eyes wide open and prepared for the day when you have to move on. You just hope to make a few bucks before you close the doors.

  212. Oh Mila…all you'll get here is the "growing pains" answer.

    1. there is no customer support

    2. help tickets go unanswered for months

    3. if you have a problem in zeek, you're labeled as a negative loser and your concerns are omitted.

    4. the 3 e-wallet fiasco is a complex game of 3 card monte, good luck getting paid.

    5. the company's auction's (which is supposed to be the entire reason behind the zeek business model) are pathetic and have in no way improved in the last year.

    6. nobody has any real customers buying bids, unless Troy has located the one or two distributors in the entire company that do.

    On the positive side (see everyone, I'm not such a negative a-hole)…all you have to do is put in a lump some of money, get others to do the same, place your 1 ad a day and you'll be rich! It really is magical!!! I've never seen a better performing investment in my life….you don't even have to work! Hell…you don't even have to use the product!!! I mean, little old ladies putting there 10K from their retirement accounts so they can hope for a big return…what a deal!!! Praise God! I just wish people could come in for $100,000…could you imagine how many people you could drive to the penny auction with an internet ad campaign like that! And you know what….they even have mlm attorneys!!!

  213. NO you didn't come on dude…

    July 11 – I can tell you right now, there are NOT any specifics revealed because Zeek will be reporting on Zeek Rewards News all the details in the next day or so.

    those are your words…NOTHING happened this week from zeek…nothing on the news site…no answers to the June 23-25th STP bids debacle, no answers to Why they can't fund their nxpay ewallet to pay people, no answers to why subscriptions are not working, no answers on why commission payouts are so late…notta. In your video you say your gonna talk to Dawn and then do another video give more information…where is it.

    So again…another DARK week from Zeek. Sorry dude but smoke and mirrors…

  214. I also believe the Association Of NWM Professionals is confused. The majority of the people I know involved with that group believe Zeek to be a ponzi. Not sure where Rod Cook stands but he has them on mlm watchdog. My friend Ruth is on the board and she believes it's a scam 100%. And then we have you, a Zeek endorser. Doesn't seem congruent to me.

  215. @Troy,

    I understand Kevin's point and agree to an extent. But I must say that I have appreciated the exchanges here. These exchanges reveal a lot about the people involved in both sides of this debate. Your willingness to face the critics head on and the professional manner in which you approached them have been remarkable. I have learned so much about you in these exchanges that I I am torn with agreeing that you don't have time to do them while wanting to continue to gain an appreciation for the way we should conduct ourselves when dealing with the critics. You are an incredible leader and I am so happy that you share my point of view on most things 🙂



  216. Yes, Troy, I was attacking you personally because myself and many others think you do fluff pieces on Zeek Rewards. I feel like you keep cycling the same crap and the same answers and excuses. So my attacks are to call you out and say wake up. Unprofessional…maybe. I could respect you a whole lot more if you would get to the bottom line in your interviews with Dawn instead acting like her attorney.

    #2 I do believe Zeek is a ponzi and will hurt a lot of my close friends. I'm 100% positive on this. You endorse Zeek. You play a part in hurting some good people…yeah makes me want to attack you.

    #3 Why do i say networking for 17 years…to let you know I've been around the block and some of us more mature networkers see patterns that you may not. I have credibility.

    #4 Joining Association of Network Marketing Professionals. Well, I guess you have to look at some of the leadership…buying and selling spot's in companies, doing multiple deals, having multiple positions, getting slotted in on top of volume. Sounds pretty professional to me Troy…then run around and tell the brand new distributor "you can do it just like we did!" Don't agree with that circle of network marketing.

    Troy, I have no desire to be popular or be on any boards. Just not a supporter of the Ponzi movement and Zeek is in my targets. A company that tells lies everyday. Only time will tell.

    I apologize for attacking you personally. I've called you a liar, a but kisser (to Dawn), a spin doctor and I've said you have no backbone. I also said I don't believe you're an expert in mlm (not yet anyway).



  217. Oh and one more thing:

    “Does Zeek Rewards pay out the bulk of their 90 day ROI with affiliate money?”

    is a simple enough question that commands a simple enough answer.

    I don't see how answering it could break any NDA you have with Zeek Rewards but I can see that answering it practically defines Zeek Rewards conclusively as a Ponzi scheme using the practical definition of one.

    This however is not an acceptable justification to simply deflect the question as you did with another qeustion of your own.

    So respectfully I put it forward to you again:

    Does Zeek Rewards pay out the bulk of their 90 day ROI with affiliate money?

    If you're going to tell me you don't know because you don't have the data, given what you do know and your much touted personal experiences and discussions with ZR management, their legal teams and the affiliates themselves – make aneducated guess.

    Again, I remind you it's a simple question that commands a simple answer. Please don't spin it.

  218. @Brad

    Oops, I have forgot one thing: CUSTOMERS.

    You will gradually have to sign up some PRC customers, SILVER GOLD or DIAMOND.

    You will probably have to buy a few email-customers too, but that's all. So you'll have to reduce the net income with a few thousands for the 2000 day period.

    20,000,000,000 = estimated VIP balance after 2000 days.

    – $10,000 // initial purchase.

    – $10,000 // estimated costs for 2000 days

    = #ERROR // (we can't withdraw apples from bananas)

    But you will still have some money left when the points are converted to money each day. If the $20,000 estimated costs seems too expensive to you, you can divide them by 5.5 years = slightly over $3,600 per year, or $300 per month. And I'm sure you can afford $300 – $310 per month, for only a short period of your life?


    No, it's not that important having paying customers. The secret Profit Sharing Formula will automatically generate Reward Points, which can be used to repurchase bids, which will generate VIP points, which in turn will generat6e reward points, which can be reinvested, which will create VIP points, which will pay reward points, and so on and so forth.

    So neither you nor anyone else will need to have paying customers, other than those I have mentioned earlier. Paying customers will only create confusion among the other affiliates, as some sort of "alien elements" in the system. If you like to "blend in" in the system, try to avoid such extraordinary things as paying customers, and focus on creating a huge downline instead.

    Sounds too good to be true?

    It can be backed up by Gaming Theories and psychological Gaming Addiction Theories. But you will need to study the theories deeply, so your normal common sense won't interfere with the conclusions.

  219. Troy for some reason I can't reply directly to your last comment so here it is down here.

    First and foremost the comparison to a murderer is incorrect because this is a label we put on someone who has committed the crime of murder. You're right a murderer is innocent until proven guilty, but that doesn't change the fact that someone was murdered and you don't need a court of law to establish that.

    'A court of law needs to rule something is a Ponzi before it is one' is a common argument' scam defenders use and it falls apart on the basic principle that a business model defines whether something is a Ponzi in the practical sense, long before a court of law gets involved.

    As mentioned before, Ponzi scheme is not solely a legal definition, it's a practical one too.

    The definition for Ponzi I gave was not a legal one, it wa sa practical one (although they might be one and the same when applied in a court of law). Regardless, the practicial definition of a Ponzi scheme can be found in any dictionary across the globe in multiple languages, irrespective of national legal jurisdiction.

    A practical definition is given based on how something works. In this case the giant proprietary mystery of whether or not affilite money makes up the bulk of the daily ROI Zeek pays out.

    Logically as it stands this is the case. You might want to insist this is a phase and the legit side of the business (retail customers in the penny auctions") will someday contribute more than affiliate money, but consider that this is what all schemes claim when they launch with a sham product upfront and simply recycle affiliate money amongst affiliates behind the scenes (the model they use to do this is irrelevant).

    In Zeek's case how much is earnt is directly related to how much money was either directly upfront invested by an affiliate, or how much they convinced others to invest.

    Long-term their earnings are dependent on how much of their daily ROI they re-invest back into the system, or how much their downline does.

    You and I both know this mechanic (change the terminology and call it what you want, the above is the simplest and most accurate definition of how the daily profit share works), is nothing like your standard bonus pool offered by genuine customer generated product sales orientated MLM companies to their top distributors.

    Furthermore this will never attract retail customers in any great number (affiliate purchased bid inflation is horrendous over at Zeekler). As long as affiliates can join and fund the scheme – primarily this is how it's going to function.

    ASD tried to hide behind advertising and ZR are trying to hide behind retail bids when they have no genuine retail customers (who purchase retail bids on a regular basis with non-affiliate money). Offering a service and hiding behind a business model that recycles affiliate money is no different to offering a product for sale nobody is buying other than your affiliates.

    That said I'll readily conceed a few legit retail customers might exist out there. One or two sure – ten even maybe, but not enough to pay out millions a day. That money's coming from the affiliates and whether you have the figures or not infront of you common-sense dictates you'd have to be a gullible moron to suggest otherwise.

    This is based on observation of the amount of auctions Zeekler run a day, the amount of bids spent in each auction and the near-universal response you get from Zeek Rewards affiliates when asked how many genuine retail customers do they have that actually spend their own money on a regular basis as "none".

    In this very thread you can see 'Greg' harping on about his affiliate downline and then repeatedly dodging Morten's 'do you have any genuine retail customers' question.

    This is not a once off and on my own blog we've seen it play out time and time again. Others with hundreds, some having thousands, of affiliates in their downlines have confirmed not one affiliate has a genuine retail customer.

    (before you trot out 25:1 affiliate to customer ratios, I said genuine retail customers who purchase retail bids with their own non-affiliate money on a regular basis, not dummy customer accounts set up by affiliates to dump their bids onto).

    Finally please don't dismiss these observations and analysis as being 'personal' (implying some sort of immature vendetta against Zeek Rewards) or equate it to people considering "legit companies" as pyramid schemes.

    I've reviewed god knows how many companies and business models now and am as objective as they come. My opinons, critical analysis and commentary on Zeek Rewards is solely based on their business model.

    I believe MLM is solely rooted in the sales of products or services to genuine retal customers. Where retail demand across an affiliates personal customers and that of their downline dictates how much commissions an affiliate earns.

    Anything else is just legal engineering to dress up tired old schemes in new clothing and skirt the laws of the countries they operate in. Ponzi schemes are nothing new.

  220. Hi Troy

    I got paid on 7/2 by zeek into Payza(alert pay) The problem is they have not paid me. I can not get bank account verified,their phones do not work, and I requested payment by check and it still has not arrived in two weeks although it shows complete. NXpay is also still not working after a month. I have sent support tickets and am still wailting for a solution. So looks like Zeek is just passing off their payment problems to 3rd party companies that also can not handle the volume of payments. So who knows where the monety is? I am in the insurance business and if we handled claims like this we would be shut down in a hurry.

  221. @Mila,

    All of your questions have been answered in several different editorials here in the community. More detailed answers can be found at Zeek Rewards News

  222. @Brad,

    I would say this video is completely out of compliance. Zeek does provide the marketing platform for the affiliates. Zeek is very clear and have made several statements on the fact NO outside videos.

    Here is where you can learn more http://yougetpaidtoadvertise.com/zeek101 This company is the only approved company to do any videos, and each video is run through the compliance and legal team first.

    Here are the three pages of explanation from the website.

    1. https://www.zeekrewards.com/getpaid.asp?username=

    2. https://www.zeekrewards.com/getpaid_qualification

    3. <a href="https://www.zeekrewards.com/getpaid_Matrix.asp?Username=Master” target=”_blank”> https://www.zeekrewards.com/getpaid_Matrix.asp?Us

    And, all affiliates enter into an agreement and must accept the P&Ps before joining. Click Here to Review

  223. Oz,

    Always good to hear from you, and see the information and comments.

    I fully agree there is a legal definition for Ponzi, Pyramids, direct sales, gambling, lotteries, auctions, raffles, business opportunity and the list goes on. And on the surface many times depending on how ones sees the business model, they will call it one of the above names, placing it in a specific category. But it is not until a regulatory organization decided to initiate some form of civil or criminal action, that a true definition will be challenged or recognized by the Courts. And even then, it doesn't mean the masses will agree.

    Case in point… Burn Lounge was defined as a network marketing income opportunity and was one of the first totally internet based companies. However, when the FTC decided to investigate, and the company refused to listen to their legal and compliance team, charges were filed, and a Judge ruled after seeing the evidence that, yet Burn Lounge was a ponzi. the case is up for appeal, but it does provide evidence to my case.

    A.L. Williams in the 1980s was alleged to be a pyramid scheme by the Life Insurance Association, and several State insurance Commissioners, opened cases against the company, including Georgia, the home state of the company. A.L. Williams now Primerica was proven to be a legit Life Insurance Agency with a multi-level compensation structure doing business using the Agency system.

    Again, regulatory bodies and/or the courts were involved. yet today, there are still some who will say Primerica is a pyramid scheme.

    I respect your opinion, but in the U.S.A. under our legal system, companies and people are Innocent of a crime or purported crime until they have tried in a Court of Law on civil or criminal charges. And even then, they have a Right to Appeal the conviction all the way to the Supreme Court.

    Your example is apples and oranges and does not work. However, if you had used the purported murderer in your example it would have proved my point making it a positive conclusion. Only a court of law can make the final outcome.

    This those not mean we are to throw caution to the wind, and not use common sense by any means. It doesn't matter if it is Zeek or MonaVie people need to dig deep and see if any company or business model is right for them, and seems to be legal. They also has you and Patrick have pointed out, need to realize that people will make forgone conclusions based on the people who are affiliated with the company.

    The question you ask and all of us have asked "Does Zeek Rewards pay out the bulk of their 90 day ROI with affiliate money?" is a strong one. I will strongly disagree with your use of ROI, although I fully understand your case in point.

    Indulge me for a second. Let me ask a question back "Do Network Marketing Companies pay out the bulk of their Profit Pool Bonuses with affiliate money?"

    I am pretty sure we are on the same page Oz, just seeing it from two different worldviews.

    In seeing how most companies payout bonuses (especially in the start-up phase) the majority of the bonus money paid is from internal consumption of the product (outside of service companies). And based on the fact Zeek Rewards has been working on the customer qualifiers for months, I would say this is a similar situation they are facing also.

    I personally do not believe that Zeek is a ponzi or is being run as such. I do conclude that without all the facts and proprietary information, someone could see it as a ponzi, just like folks see legit network marketing companies like MonaVie as a pyramid scheme.

    I also conclude, that public opinion, majority or manority doesn't conclusively defend any company, but only a judicial body can decide.

    Oz, thank you for coming over and sharing. I value your insights and opinions, even when we disagree. 🙂 I pray you are wrong on this one for the good of those affiliates who do not have a history of playing in the HYIPs and Poni arenas. I know association is strong with that crowd in Zeek and I hope the new qualifiers will weed even more of those folks out.

    Maybe they will turn over a new leaf and decide Bids that Give is a more honorable way to do penny auctions 😉

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  224. @Brad

    You can check it with a spreadsheet?


    I used a fixed 1.5% per day in daily ROI. The VIP balance after 90 days was around 28,000 AFTER the initial 10,000 points had expired. Before that, no points had expired, but now they starts to expire each day. So I started from here to see how fast the points doubled and redobled, and the average was around 100 days before the points had doubled each time.

    Then I checked the result after 365 days. Here I used the formulas in the spreadsheet, and the result after 365 days was 200-210,00 VIP points, well within the range the other affiliates have told you (between 100,000 and 1 million).

    And then I looked for the nearest 100 days where my spreadsheet plus my calculations would come close to 1 million points, but where days would be a round 100 number. The points after 600 days was around 900,000. And then I doubled the points several times, up to 1000 days, up to 1500 days and up to 2000 days — doubling the points for each 100 days.

    I did NOT bother to create a spreadsheet with 2000 days in the first place, because a spreadsheet will only show an estimate anyway. I extended my spreadsheet today to 600 days, and it actually showed over 1 million points after 600 days. So my estimated 900,000 points yesterday was LOW.

    The calculation may have been "quick and dirty", but I don't think anyone will show much reactions if someone corrects me with "The amount after 2000 days will NOT be between 14 and 16 billion, it will be closer to 10 billion!", or "closer to 20 billion", "closer to 30 billion" or whatever

    By the way, you HAVE already got my calculations partly confirmed from the other affiliates, in the statement "between 100,000 and 1 million". My calculation "double each 100 day or so, after the first 90 days" is well within that range.

    The business model "MLM + Penny auctions" can clearly get rid of all the poverty in the world, because it creates points out of thin air. People will only have to put in some money first, so the old "bid purchasers" can be paid first. Your $10,000 will be highly welcomed by affiliates with huge VIP balances, and in exchange you will get VIP points that can grow forever.

    If you're in doubt about this, try to imagine yourself 10 years from now, when you have bought Apple, ExxonMobile, all the farmland in the U.S., and all the other stuff you have bought. 🙂

    It REALLY starts to get interesting after 1800-2000 days, when you have rounded your first billion.

  225. All i want to know is this:

    1 where are the profits coming from? 12 little auctions at a time is all i can see

    2. Is anyone actually earning a income ie: money in the bank or is it all just unrealized income – purchase bids with imaginary money?

    3 Why is ZeekRewards set up so you can't contact them. You can't get through to support. Why is it so deliberately difficult?

    4. What is the longevity of this company?

  226. @e You can challenge Troy without the name calling.I do not believe Troy has never said this kind of niche could not be shutdown by the regulators he has always said its high risk. I am a zeek affiliate and have been wondering about them my self but if they dont get shutdown i will make some money. If they do the one person I have in my downline I have told them i will give them there money back so noone will get hurt. I am not going to recruit anymore until zeek improves alot.

  227. @ e, I don't care if you are a Blue Diamond, Purple Horseshoe, Green Clover,or a Total Jackass, I believe the latter would be accurate. The disrespectful tone you have exhibited here towards Troy, I would not want to be involved in anything that you represent.

    Sounds like there's something more in your bottle of Monavie, perhaps a little Jesus Juice?

  228. @e,

    I will agree you are not emotionally detached at all, which is more than likely why you have attacked me personally, instead of doing some really deep do diligence to understand the business model and my background in network marketing.

    You mentioned that in 17 years you have never gotten it wrong about a company being shut down. Well I am not as good as you are. In 2009 I hit a company and said they were a scam, and would be shut down within the year. They had all internal consumption, they were paying commissions based on some virtual currency that could be used to buy bids, but could not be used by the general public, and had no real office, just a drop box in the back of the Empire State Building. And then I forgot about them, because they just seemed to dry up.

    Fast forward to 2012… Today the company has 3 million customers worldwide, 150 thousand affiliates, is part of a public US company doing millions in revenues, and supports some major network marketing companies. The company is DubLi and the DubLi Network, the parent company is the MediaNet group. Most of us worldwide had blown them off. We hit them as a ponzi, and all the while they were correcting them business model and had quietly gone on to become the largest shopping and entertainment mall in the world serving the network marketing community. Their unique bid auctions went from being the flagship product to just part of the larger scheme of things.

    Unlike you, as an emotionally detached observer to the Unique Bid Auction niche, Zeek, BidiFy, Bids that Pay, and DubLi, I have gone deep in doing the due diligence on all the companies and deeper yet to understand the philology and math behind the auctions themselves so I could report fully on the situation. In reporting I have done the following…

    1. Shown the red flags, and brought to the surface the five major areas where the MLM unique bid auctions fall and how any one of those five areas could cause issues, if the companies do not have good legal and compliance counsel.

    2. Did the investigative background on all the owners and executives in Lexington to see if there was something in their background which might show criminal intent.

    3. Talked with the former AG investigators to get a feel from their perspective what they would look for in investigating a company like Zeek, and how they decide to hit a company and its owners with criminal intent or just a CID (Civil Investigative Demand).

    4. Interviewed the 3rd party legal team on specific questions, and questioned the outside and inside compliance team to better understand the changes being implemented at Zeek Rewards to make it a fully complaint company inside of all five major areas they operate inside of.

    5. Compared Zeek Rewards business model to other companies who are 100% virtual like ASD, HYIPSs,and specifically the DubLi Network to help get a better understanding of where they might be hit from a regulatory side or from internal issues.

    As I continued to report, I also made it clear where my concerns still lay through all of the issues. Each time an issue has come up such as…

    1. Credit card processing

    2. Cyber fraud

    3. Credit card fraud

    4. Certified funds fraud

    5. Check fraud

    6. eWallet issues

    7. Customer service issues

    8. Banking issues

    I have covered these and helped to provide logical conclusions to each situation by investigating and asking questions about each issue. I have gone to Lexington three times and each time was given time to ask more questions and watched as Paul Burks and his team took the same hard questions asked in this community and answered them. I then came back and would provide those answers to folks who have not been able to go to Red Carpet Days.

    Sadly, you do not seem to not give any merit to my investigative background or knowledge into this subject, and believe deep in your heart that all I am doing is endorsing Zeek. It seems on the surface that you have not gone through each editorial, video and comment thread to better educate yourself on my stance on the unique bid auctions, and in not doing so, have decided I and I alone must be the reason your friends and family have joined Zeek.

    Erik, it is finally good to meet you. I better understand your concerns, knowing how many great leaders in MonaVie have joined Zeek. I found it sad that Randy had to sen out a letter to the field warning them they would soon lose some of their income if they were caught promoting a different network marketing business. I received many phone calls on the issue and even did an editorial.

    I have many friends and even clients inside of MonaVies top ranks, and classify Dallin a friend. I have covered MonaVie, the field and even the controversy surrounding MonaVie over the years, and I have never seen you comment negatively or posatively on any of my reporting. As a matter of fact, just like ith Zeek I have covered the hard issues. And if you are on some MonaVie critics websites you can find where I talked about MonaVie and its leaders supporting the company and discussing, as we do here, and at BehindMLM on the pros and cons of MonaVie and their field team who has been out of compliance and caused the company issues with regulators.

    Erik, I do have a question that I just don't understand. Why do you feel it is important to continually share with folks how much time you have in the network marketing community, and how many people you have helped, while trying to tell folks I do not help folks, and have not been in the trenches? I understand that we do not run in the same circles of friends, but does that mean my field success and the service I have provided to others is any less important than yours? For someone who has been personally sponsored by Brig, I would think you would have been far more professional and less judgmental.

    I do see where you are coming from on not understanding Unique Bid Auctions, and like you I was in the same boat. I have concluded that Internet based companies do not fit the legal definition of a direct sales company aka network marketing, and should be classified direct marketing companies, because their business model is far more inline with the legal definition.

    Erik, I do appreciate the fact you finally decided to come clean on who you really are. And I do hope that in the future, you give some thought on finding out who are you throwing mud at, before you just go throw mud at them personally.

    By the way, you did get something wrong… It is personal to Oz, Kchang and Patrick, they are advocates for their cause and have done fantastic jobs over the years at protecting and providing information to millions of people.

    I am emotionally attached to the people inside the network marketing community, not the companies themselves. From founders and CEOs (including yours) to the newest grass roots distributor, we fight everyday to create collaboration so we can make this community the best in the world. If you are such a fighter, then why haven;t you joined the Association of Network Marketing Professionals, and become a part of the solution to helping educate and protect the network marketing community?

    You would make a great Board Member with your passion and drive. We might need to work on the people skills when you are emotionally attached, but we all have our days without a doubt.

    Living An Epic Adventure,


  229. @Brad

    Oops, I forgot to mention the taxes (if you're an US citizen).

    The taxable income after one year will be $400-410,000 from all the RPP paid to your backoffice. But the IRS can probably accept a similar amount as deductions, from all the repurchased bids. Or they can accept half of the amount as deductions, or nothing at all.

    So it can probably be wise of you to build up a huge fortune BEFORE you make your first purchase of bids, to be able to pay potential taxes in the first 5.5 years when your VIP point balance grows to several billions.

    You have probably some questions about how a penny auction can be able to support all the payouts?

    There you will have to trust the company and the secret formula they use to calculate the daily RPP. But all people knows that penny auctions can generate trillions in revenue per day. They are the new answer to financial crisis, national debt crisis and unemployment — all in one solution.

  230. Well done, Steve. You got he ones I was thinking of. Note: Steve was responding to MB's question to me about Oz and mschang's wrong conclusions.

    I'd not have such a hard time with them if they were more up front with the fact that they have a bias going in. Chang says he's "not going to tell anyone what to think" then he proceeds to do just that.

    As far as the "drinking the kool-aid" statement, the reality is we are all drinking someone's kool-aid. We have a set of beliefs. When someone says something that resonates with our beliefs, we tend to believe them. We don't have the time or the means to verify everything people tell us. When it comes to the list Steve gives above, I'm drinkin' Troy's Kool-aid (see Troy's response below). And I'm lovin' it 🙂

  231. Hey Troy,

    I have followed your reviews on Zeek Rewards and other MLM Companies over the last several months and I thank you for your pursuit to bring both fact and your professional opinion into every report that you deliver.

    Your reviews are still first rate as they point out both the pros and the cons of different mlm companies across the globe.

    Unfortunately your reviews on Zeek are also attracting such famous names as MB, E, OZ, and of course KChang that add little value to the discussion and I see that they are taking up a lot of your time as you feel that you need to constantly defend your opinion and clarify your words as they are seen in the eyes of the beholder.

    My personal opinion is that you should continue to report on Zeek Rewards of course as the affiliates really do appreciate the information that you provide whether it be fact and/or opinion. What I would like to see less of are your defending comments to the same nameless visitors repeating the same questions and opinions over and over again.

    Your time is better spent elsewhere is it not?

    Again Troy, thanks for all you do.


  232. MB,

    I appreciate your response to mine WAY back in the comments…a lot of people have had a lot of time on Friday night it looks like:) I wanted to clarify one thing to you: I was NOT comparing ZR to a securities investment, but I can see how that would be construed in my comment. I completely understand the compliance issues surrounding that.

    My point had to do with trusting leadership. If you don't trust the leaders, you need to realign yourself. I don't care whether it's a business opportunity, job, organization, stock, you name it. When you have a choice, only put your time, money, energy where you're comfortable with those you're trusting with all of those things. So I apologize for even putting those analogies together, it was not my intention beyond the point about leadership.

  233. Pon·zi scheme

    noun /ˈpänzē/

    Ponzi schemes, plural

    A form of fraud in which belief in the success of a nonexistent enterprise is fostered by the payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors.

    The business model alone defines whether or not something is a ponzi scheme, as per the very definition of a Ponzi scheme above.

    The false assumption that something is only a Ponzi scheme after a court trial is as ridiculous as claiming somebody is still alive and well, despite being murdered until the conclusion of a court trial.

    And that if no court trial occured, that person was never murdered.

    There's a practical component to Ponzi schemes and a legal component. They are not mutually inclusive of eachother.

    The legal component is indeed goverend by the judicial process, the practical component is solely determined by the business model.

    Does Zeek Rewards pay out the bulk of their 90 day ROI with affiliate money?

    This is a yes or no question and does not reveal any specific numbers (other than a 50% majority) about the business model. There's only one reason to date that Zeek Rewards have not responded to this question openly and honestly.

    Don't give me that proprietary information crap either, there's nothing proprietary about clarifying definitively whether or not your business model fits the very definition of a Ponzi scheme.

  234. Jack, I don't think any of us are hiding behind any names. I'm e and believe me…I don't deserve to be mentioned with oz or kchang. They are very smart expert bloggers and journalists. I'm not emotionally detached and objective as they are. I'm a scrapper and a fighter for my industry. My name is Erik Cloud. I'm a blue diamond in monavie. I've been a full time top income earner for a long time. I've been free for over 17 years and I've helped a lot of people succeed in NWM, unlike Troy. Is there a place for Troy…yes, as an mlm gossip columnist, not as an expert or someone who can "help you". You have to be in the trenches to help someone. You don't have to be in the trenches to inform someone, which is where Mr. Dooly comes in. Regarding zeek, to the rest of you…I won't be proven right until zeek is proven wrong, which I'm confident will happen in the next few months. In the mean time, I'm willing to look like the a**hole raining on everyones Zeek parade and eventually you'll all have to apologize or just flat out deny the governments ruling when Zeek is shut down. Ponzi's like Zeek aren't new, they've been around forever with different disguises and they give our industry a bad name, which makes my job even more difficult in legitimate network marketing. The purpose of network marketing is to move a product to an end user that they need and want to consume. Earning money is the by-product of that action. Penny auction bids do not meet that standard, and for whatever reason, Troy doesn't recognize it. Oz and Kchang will give Troy more grace because this is an outside issue for them. For me it's personal.

  235. @e,

    Interesting, Oz is known to come here personally when he wants to address something I write, just like I go to BehindMLM when I want to address something.

    Well, again if you have started from December to current you would know I have addressed this very subject. And I addressed is again in my comment here.

    The one thing I can disagree on, is this statement… "A court of law might establish the legality of a business model, but you don’t need a court of law to define a Ponzi scheme. "

    If that statement was true, and not subjective, then Stanford Financial Group and Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities would not have been around for decades. It does take a Court of Law to determine, outside of public opinion what a legit company is and a ponzi scheme once a regulatory body decides to charge a company with criminal intent.

    Again, I respect where you are coming from, and really respect Oz on his passion for protecting people from scams.

    In the case of Zeek Rewards, I am willing to stand on the fact, they are not operating or endorsing a ponzi scheme, and are aggressively going after any offenders they find who are promoting Zeek in such a manner. And I am pretty sure ASD did not have in-house investigators who to track down and terminate or turn over to law enforcement anyone found propagating fraud.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  236. Troy, do you agree with the above explanation? Withdrawing $1.4 million A DAY after 1500 days?

  237. @e,

    You still don't get it. Had you taken time to review this site, and not just focus on Zeek, then you might get our mission here at MLM Help Desk. This has never been "endorse Zeek" and if you had watched all the videos you would know that. It is support the people in Zeek and ALL network marketing companies. It amazes me how strong folks will hit me for Zeek, and blow off BidiFy and DubLi. This is not about me at all. But no matter what might happen in the future, I can rest at night knowing what I have said publicly and privately comes from the heart.

    But let's take a look at some facts.

    1. I have been very clear form day one the unique Bid Auctions are a higher risk because this business model is new to network marketing.

    2. I have been very straightforward that Zeek needs to communicate better with their affiliates.

    3. I have made it very clear, if the affiliates do not operate their independent businesses within the compliance criteria, they will not only cause themselves issues, they could cause the company issues.

    4. I have made it very clear, the regulators can still decide unique bid auctions are to high of a risk for the consumer and regulate them or shut them down at a federal or state level.

    5. I have NOT been willing to just report on the negative and critical issues, but have gone deeper to find out why specific issues take place before reporting.

    So if that is what you call "endorsing zeek" then you need to add in their BidiFy and DubLi, and thousands of other network marketing companies while you are at it.

    And, let's not forget, all those who have come to this community seeking answers and help in specific issues and they got their answers and their situations taken care of, because our team was able to push above the noise to the powers to be, to get answers.

    If that is "endorsing zeek" then I will gladly do it again. But outside of that, you will not find where I have endorsed any unique bid auction, although I do come close in one video where I am clear that if I had to decide between Zeek, BidiFy and DubLi, I would go with DubLi because they are through the growing pains and are well funded.

    So, now that we know we will never see eye to eye on the Unique Bid Auction companies in MLM, we can agree to disagree.

    Living An Epic Adventure,


  238. from Oz:

    Dooly seems to be missing the importance of the email. It’s not about supporting your friends in jail, asking downlines to send Bowdoin money, or guilt by association (Bowdoin has admitted ASD was nothing more than a Ponzi scheme).

    The importance of the email is that it spells out what attracted top Ad Surf Daily earners to the company, in that they found it strikingly similar to Ad Surf Daily. Similar enough that they credit Zeek Rewards’ business model as being built upon ASD before it.

    When you factor in that these are the same people who were attracted to the passive investment nature of ASD, and that the creator of ASD has confessed no less that ASD was nothing more than a Ponzi scheme funded my member money, it should be cause for alarm in itself.

    The attraction and why these ex-ASD top earners joined Zeek Rewards is what’s important here. Through all the compliance winking a nudging at the end of the day you invest $x, buy customers for peanuts (customers don’t even know they are being signed up), automate your daily ad posting and sit back and earn a passive ROI over 90 days.

    Where does this ROI come from? New member investments, either in the form of direct investment in VIP bids or indirectly through fake customer accounts purchasing retail bids.

    A court of law might establish the legality of a business model, but you don’t need a court of law to define a Ponzi scheme. Anymore so than you need a court of law to establish that somebody is indeed dead after they were murdered.

  239. Troy, Zeek is selling an investment program. When it goes down, your honor and integrity will be in question because you're clearly a zeek supporter. Plenty of people told you so. You will come out looking like a fool. People will believe your spin about zeek, invest, and lose money.

    I make a living in the network marketing industry. If I'm heated at you, you can discern why. I have strong feelings about what is legit and what isn't and I've never been wrong in 17 years about what companies will be shut down. You position your self as an MLM expert. You endorse zeek. People i know and care about listen to you (although I think you're totally full of it and a complete poser) and get involved. Now, you and I have problems.

    You'll play dumb like everyone else and issue a weak apology when they're shut down. Par for the course.

    Troy, Zeek Rewards will be shut down before 12 months. If you're an expert, bet against me and I'll take it.

  240. @Brad

    The word "potential" can mean alot when people tries to make you put money into something.

    You put $10,000 in, and gets VIP points in return.

    * The VIP points is used to calculate your share of the daily profit pool, RPP.

    * The RPP will be paid to your backoffice each day, and can be withdrawn as cash (weekly) or be used to repurchase bids (grow the VIP point balance, grow the daily RPP payout).

    After 90 days with 100% repurchase your VIP balance will be around 28,000, counted AFTER your initial 10,000 points have expired. Then the VIP balance will double each 100 day or so if you continue with 100% repurchase.

    * After 1 year: 200-210,000 VIP points

    * After 600 days 900,000 – 1 million VIP points

    * After 1000 days: 14-16 million VIP points

    * After 1200 days: 56-64 million VIP points

    * After 1500 days: 450-512 million VIP points

    If you start to withdraw money then, following an 80/20 plan (80% repurchase, 20% withdrawal), your VIP point balance will continue to grow slowly, and you can withdraw $1.4 million per day as cash. Or you can of course continue to double the VIP points each 100 day if you prefer a huge VIP point fortune. Day 2000 it will have reached 14-16 billion VIP points if you continue to repurchase bids 100% each day. 2000 days is appr. 5.5 years.

    A small problem is all the others who have joined before you, and have followed a similar plan for a long time. They will have earned enough money to buy up all the stuff you're interested in, like Apple, Exxon/Mobile, all the farmland in the U.S., all the gold in the world, etc., long time before you have earned enough.


    My calculation isn't 100% correct, since my spreadsheet only covered 365 days. The "doubling each 100 day" can be 5-10% off target, so you may need some days more or less before you have become a multi billionaire.

    You can speed up the process if you recruit other people, and earn commissions from their purchases.

    Don't recruit family members, since you will need a couple of PRC customers (customers paying for membership). It's better if you recruit friends to your downline, and use family members as customers. After the first 1000 days, you can probably afford to hire some professional recruiters doing the job for you (unless the members who have joined before you have hired all the professional recruiters already).

  241. For clarification purposes, the first four paragraphs I cut and pasted from e-mails I have received from four different affiliates. The fifth and final paragraph was me trying to pull it all together to try and make sense of it. The three easy steps were taken directly from the Zeek Rewards website.

    Two different affiliates confirmed my understanding of the growth opportunity. Of course that does not mean they are right.

  242. Troy thanks for all you do to get word out good or bad about Zeek.You are out there putting up videos people know who you are.While most of the critic's hide behind names (e,oz,kchang no one really knows who they are.By the way any marine is a hero of mine

  243. @e,

    Interesting to say the least.

    1. Yes, I am saying as I have for several months that Zeek is NOT selling an investment program! I am a little concerned you have not realized that before now. This is why Zeek would not be a good network marketing company for you personally, because you like some of the affiliates and prospects who do not understand unique bid auctions, do not realize what the business model is all about.

    2. Now as to the personal attack and name calling, very unprofessional. Although, this is what you have done in the past, I really thought, you were looking for due diligence. But it seems you just want folks to start believing your reality. And if we don't then you call use names.

    3. I have nothing to be ashamed of. Why do you feel I should be ashamed? I have written on the whole niche for months. I am not alone in my thoughts on this. Some folks way smarter than I am, have written some great papers on all the facts, covering both the pros and cons.

    4. I do more than call myself a Marine. You can;t just call yourself one, you have to be one!

    5. Why do you feel I have no honor or integrity? I run a blog community, write under my own name, stand by what I write, and gladly accept the fact that you have the right to call me anything you desire, and to tell the world your personal opinion. I also gladly correct info when I get it wrong and tell folks loudly "I am sorry" when I get something wrong. Exactly, where is the lack of honor and integrity?

    6. Not sure of your last statement, it didn;t make a lot of sense to me based on the topic at hand.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  244. Oh, you mean Zeek doesn't offer an investment program? You're a liar and you know it! You're a dirty liar. You should be ashamed of yourself. You call yourself a Marine? Shame on you! You have no honor or no integrity and you're fine lying to yourself and others. Do you sell the (crap – edited by Troy) you're full of by the ounce or by the ton?

  245. @e,

    1. No what he is saying the affiliates may have told is could be accurate. Since I was not there I have no way of saying they did or did not say it.

    2. What the affiliates stated is not accurate. Without a doubt, it may be their personal reality, but it is not true company wide.

    3. Just because someone states something is a reality, does not mean it is so. Hitler told the masses and they believed him, that the Jews could not be trusted and must die. Although Jews were killed in the millions, Hitler's reality and subsequently the German people's did not make it true. A harsh contrast I understand, but from a logical conclusion it fits.

    4. You call it wordsmithing, I call it regulatory compliance. Having built most of my network marketing success in the financial service side of the profession, the words you use or do not use, is not some form of wordsmithing, it is in most cases about the laws at a federal or state level. Zeek is no different. Just because a small or large group of people decide to go around the compliance of the company and the laws does not mean it is reality. It means, they are out of compliance, which can cause the company issues and all the other affiliates. We see this happen on Wall Street on a regular basis, and the same rings true here.

    Or if we go to the health and nutrition side of the profession. When specific words are used in the field or at a corporate level, then the company and or the affiliates are out of legal compliance. Just because someone believes they have been "cured" by some fruit juice, doesn't mean they can tell folks they have been cured. Just because someone says "I have a great business opportunity" doesn't mean it is legal or right. Based on the current FTC rules, and some state laws, a business opportunity, is completely different than a "network marketing income opportunity."

    5. Sadly, you just don't get it. This is not about spin, it is about right and wrong. What is legal or illegal. Any company when they allow their field force to create their own reality by stating what they want, will sooner or later get hit with regulator fines or shut down all together.

    6. As for the word "sport" I will accept that proudly. the term is not a derogatory term in the slightest.

  246. Troy, regardless of whether Brad's "lingo" tow's the company line, is what he's saying accurate? Doesn't the way it's actually presented by the masses make it a reality, or do you need to help Zeek wordsmith their way further out of the trenches? Troy, you are a truly great spin doctor…one of the best I've seen. Good for you sport (isn't that what you called me?).

  247. @Brad,

    Well to make it short and sweet, those folks you have been talking with are presenting you something completely different than what Zeek Rewards promotes as a company, and if they are caught, they will be terminated.

  248. @e,

    Not sure where you got that I am the world's leading expert on anything. But at the end of the day it is the algorithms in every compensation plan that must pass the regulators. I sat last week with one of the world's leading compensation plan experts for a day and a half while he helped a client of mind create a new compensation structure, and everything which seemed like common sense, had little to do with what the real math had to do.

    Now sure what you are referring to #8. I know what I wrote, I just do not get your response. But, based on your statement "or maybe I’m really just doing my due-dilligence so I can “invest” in the program." I would suggest you pass on this one, because what it seems you are looking for is not what Zeek offers. 🙂

  249. @ MB,

    I apologize for the way I worded the above comment. I would suggest that you go to a red carpet event and ask to talk to Paul Burks face to face and tell him your concerns. I do however think you will be hard pressed to find any MLM that will reveal there customer affiliate ratios because if they did it may not be very rosy (Just ask Herbal-life);-).

    My only issue is that you seem to be unsure if the company is stable or you think it COULD be a scam. I suggest if you think it COULD be, follow your heart and deactivate. And if you have those feeling and they are sincere can you with a good conscious spend another dime of that money?

    In the future it may be a good idea to be sure that you are comfortable with a companies business model (Before) joining.

    Having the type of points that you have , you must have been around a long time with this company, and if so, I can assure you there were MUCH more red flags 8 months ago than there are currently, and they are constantly TRYING to improve. Heck even regulators will give companies some time to get compliant. I don't mean to offend you however.

    Ok i'm off my soapbox LOL! 🙂

    Sincerely again Mike

  250. Hey Morten,,, CONGRATS..your on FIRE..I have been in Zeeks for 1 month today, I have placed daily ads and over 60 people viewed my ads but still no one joining…Any Tips so I can sponsor people?..

  251. Hey Troy, I'm not really an algorithm dude…just a simple network marketer looking for some straight answers…you're the worlds leading expert on mlm so I thought you could shed some light?

    More interested in a response to my previous 8 items…I know I'm just a simpleton painted as someone spreading appallingly negative zeek bad press…or maybe I'm really just doing my due-dilligence so I can "invest" in the program.

  252. @e,

    It is so easy to present subjective equations to make them work pro or con. Since the only folks who have all the figures in the mathematical algorithms, the rest of us, can just guess.

  253. @e,

    1. Andy is not the father of this business model Heck he didn't even conger up auto surfing, he just happened to not learn from everyone else and they finally decided to put him where he could not cause any more trouble for a while.

    2. Since you had to ask this question, it is clear you never watched my first video or read the editorial.

    3. What tough question are you wanting to ask? I don't think I have ever backed off a tough question. There are some questions, that I just don;t have answers because I am not inside of Zeek corporate. And at other times, due to the proprietary nature of the info, I can't share specifics due to the NDA I signed. But the majority of the time I do give the answers to the tough questions.

    4. Never mailed my Social network, but did contact some very close friends on the issue. And if reviewing the email Patrick shared, it would seem that is what Todd and Barb did. They contacted folks who were all part of ASD (well except for Patrick) to see who might want to provide Andy with some cash. I will agree that there is at least one very strong leg of Zeek (not the majority, just a leg) where the majority of the early affiliated did come from ASD. That is not a secret, nor is it illegal. And I fully understand the "Friends of a Feather." But as you stated "this isn't indicative of the majority." And since this is America we are talking about, I will stand by the Right's of all Americans "They are Innocent until proven guilty." Just because their friend Andy went to prison, doesn't mean they are guilty of the same crimes.

    5. Why do you feel I am blind, and blind to what? Could it be I just happen to have more facts so see things from a different worldview? The penny auctions do not have to support all the commission payouts. Although, they do need to make up a good portion of the commissions. Now as to the size of the commissions, I have not seen any official documentation outside of the 2011 IDS, which doesn't show near the HUGE checks as some folks want to claim they receive.

    And as someone who has been around this rodeo more than once, folks talking about how much money they earn, is like the boys in the school yard trying to out do each other on which base they got to the night before with their dates. Or those fish stories I hear every day from the tourist who come fishing in the Gulf. Don't believe everything you hear. 🙂

    I have been one of the largest voices making it clear, there needs to be some balance coming in customers outside the compensation structure, to maintain longevity to the penny auction business model. Not just Zeek but the whole MLM unique bid auction niche. And from what we have heard coming from Zeek, they are moving forward with their business plans to make sure this happens. And like most network marketing companies I have tracked over the years, the network is built before the retail customers start to come.

    And, they are not yes and no answers. And as a professional witness, I would not answer with yes or no answers either 🙂

    6. You can take Dawn's words out of context, but when you place them back inside the question, and read the complete explanation, you quickly see, she what she was referring. As for the Retail Point Pool, that is such a small part of the overall commission structure. There are bids being sold retail and their are customers. I would say there needs to be more if they want to take over #1 from QuiBids. 🙂

    7. I am sure some will say I endorse Zeek. But they could also say that about BidiFy and DubLi if they so desire. I do endorse the network marketing business model, and I endorse the Right for folks to create new business models. I have been very straightforward on all Unique Bid Auctions, so if a regulator were to charge the founders of Zeek with criminal intent, I would still be covering the story under my real name, and we all will learn from the prosecutors evidence why they feel it is illegal. And I would continue the coverage all the way through the appeal.

    But if I were a betting man, I would bet, that the North Carolina AG will be the first to respond to Zeek and like Duke Energy will issue a CID, not any criminal charges. And if it is uncovered that there are parts of the business model, which need to be changed, then the powers to be, will make those changes based on the AGs direction. And although folks never want to talk about it, ASD did not get any CIDs because Andy was a known criminal, and the Secret Service in Washington was tired of his actions. Many folks have investigated Paul Burks, and he and Andy are two totally different people.

    I do find it interesting that you ask this question. I am proud of the role I have in network marketing to provide the facts and allow others to comment based on their own personal worldview and opinions. Just because a company doesn't make it, or does make it, doesn't mean I will change my opinion of the founders nor support them in keeping the facts rolling.

    8. Why is it folks always want to be in control and tell me how to respond or not respond? Why ask me a question, if you want me to respond a specific way?

  254. Troy, pls spare all of us who visit here for balanced opinion from parrots without original ideas. You talk to a deaf with sign language.You can burst your vocal cord, it will be to no avail.Pls just put him on ignore list because it did not show he read your response before he copied and pasted another one.

    Pls spare us the pains of reading his rants. Pls use the time to rest or respond to better requests.You do not need to attend to someone that knows it all when others are here to learn from the stable of the meek and resourceful person as you.

  255. Here are some quotes I have read from affiliates:

    You can start with a smaller amount and build it up fairly quickly since it works out to 2% on weekdays and 1-2% on weekends. That's what I've been making on a steady bases. I keep all my money in there until I get to my number to do the 80/20 split and make a weekly cash out which should be in 3-4 months for me. When you do the math on 1-2% daily..more days at 2% than 1% it is very powerful which is why some folks start with 10,000 which gets you a nice full time income right out of the gate.

    Here’s how it breaks down. Penny auctions run at huge profit margins, and in Zeek’s case, the company is just steering the massive dollars it would normally spend with fancy ad networks to you. All you need to do is place your daily ad. Do that and you’ve done your part to earn that day’s percentage of profit! At the moment that percentage averages between 1.5 – 1.75%. These figures are not promised in any way, and you are in no way guaranteed to receive these specific percentage payouts.

    Let's use a 1.4% daily reward figure in this example (Please note: This is only an example and the actual amount will vary day to day). When you reach 50,000 points in your account, then you could start doing an 80/20 cash-out plan. Pay close attention… When you hit 50,000 points in your account, if the daily reward percentage is 1.4%, ZeekRewards will be awarding you with $700.00 each day.

    I also have been told once an affiliate hits the 90th day, then the 91st day, etc., he or she has some VIP points retiring from their account EVERY DAY, provided they repurchased more bids with their daily profits from day one forward. In other words, on any given day, whatever additional money an affiliate chose to repurchase additional bids, that exact amount is "retired" exactly 90 days later.

    With the daily reward of 1% to 2% and VIP points retiring on 90 rolling periods, an affiliate can turn $10,000 into $100,000 to $1,000,000 in 365 days. Troy is this right? Is this the kind of money we are talking about? It does not line up with the 2011 income disclose statement. I just need to know if a person can sign up for a diamond or gold business, purchase $10,000 in VIP Bids, take approximately 3-5 minutes a day to copy and paste an ad on the internet, and have the potential to turn $10,000 into $100,000 to $1,000,000 in 365 days. This is what an affiliate and his up stream partner is telling me. Your assistance and insight is greatly appreciated.

  256. @MB

    You seem to be dedicating a lot of time advocating that zeek rewards is some sort of scam or ponzi yet you are content for yourself and your wife to make bucket loads of money from it. Does that mean that you are knowingly participating in something that you believe to be illegal? Interesting set of standards you seem to have.

  257. Also, not an investment scheme? I come into Zeek with $10,000 and get 20 of my friends to put in $10,000 and we all place our one ad a day…I'm set for life aren't I? Why wouldn't I be Troy according to how you plug the numbers in the spread sheet. Am I off on this? Does that sound like a legit business model to you?

    Wow, I would be paid a lot to "drive traffic" to a penny auction that has 30 lousy auctions a day. I guess some of those guys are really earning their million a month incomes.

    What happened to common sense?

  258. #1 Troy, do you recognize Andy as the father of this business model as those zeek leaders state (yes, I do believe they are Zeek leaders).

    #2 Do you see the similarities in ASD and Zeek?

    #3 How come whenever someone ask's you a tough question you always have to "get back to them" on it.

    #4 Friends in prison?…stupid point. Did you email your social network asking your friends for funds to help your son and so many other of your friends and family members who are felons? I realize this isn't indicative of the majority of zeek members, but you have to admit the relationship with Andy does indeed have strong ties to Zeek. Friends of a feather flock together.

    #5 Why are you so blind? Do you believe the penny auctions are generating the revenue to pay these large weekly commissions? Do you believe the majority of Zeek members have retail customers purchasing bids? Do you really believe these are growing pains issues? (these are yes or no answers by the way, no need to get back to me).

    #6 Why can't you see the simple truth…people put in money, wait 90 days, and start their 80/20 investment model. Dawn said "we can't pay you until new members fund the e-walletts". Nobody's selling bids retail and there are no customers.

    #7 What will your spin be when the company you endorse collapses and proves to be illegal just as ASD was.

    #8 Please don't compliment me and say "wow, those are good point's, I'll have to make some calls and get back to you".

  259. Quote from MB: I have made some weekly withdrawals over $5000 myself, but this does not make the company legal, viable, or sustainable.

    Because of the post above, I came to the conclusion that it appeared as though from what you have posted up until now, that you were criticizing the Chef while sneaking the Chefs food into your lunch box.

    If you are in fact drawing your money out and closing your accounts, then I applaud you for standing by your conviction. I would think most people would agree that if they were not comfortable with something they should not be involved in it.

    You are correct that Zeek is not an investment, stock or anything close to it. It should never be compared to or presented as anything close to a stock or any other financial asset. It is a business opportunity.

    I believe Troy has offered to help others with their Zeek issues, maybe he can help you with getting your checks and closing your Zeek accounts?

    I do wish you the best of luck with your future endeavors.

  260. @e,

    🙂 This did bring a small to my face. Let's look at what Patrick wrote, compared to what you suggest.

    Patrick calls the author of the email "a former promoter of ASD, and current promoter of Zeek." Nowhere does he suggest these are leaders in Zeek who sent the email. And what criteria do you use to call someone a leader? Without a doubt Todd and Barb are in Zeek, but I have never heard anyone from Rex Venture Group refer to them as "leaders". So please explain?

    It is one thing to bring up the concern like a large group of former ASD folks are in Zeek and may not be promoting the business from a complaint manner. But to propagate crap, is what causes folks not to take you and others seriously when you speak.

    Patrick is a respected advocate for the anti-ponzi movement, and although I do not always agree with his opinions, or how he tries to lump companies together because the promoters have been in more than one company, (some proven ponzis), I do understand why he does it and respect him for it.

    But, all you seem to do see your comment go live and stir up dust. I have yet to see where you have provided solid debate to anyone who has engaged in conversation with you.

    Well, although Andy, has plead guilty, and is serving time in prison, I do not see where those who are his friends, can't shoot out an email to raise some funds for him. This is America, and we are free to be friends with whoever we desire. As someone who has had several friends and family members go to prison over the years for different things, I can assure you I did not stop loving them. I did not approve of their actions prior to getting busted, but I continued to love them. Didn't associate very often, but continued to talk when they called and support them as much as I could (which when they were on the run was not at all.)

    As a father who watched his son go to prison for several years on felony charges, maybe I just happen to see things differently than you do. Based on how fast you posted your comment, it is easy to see, if you have any friends who go to prison, they will not be able to count on you being there for them.

    Now back to Patrick's post. He does mention that Zeek is posting some percentage of return, I did go back to the Zeek Rewards website to make sure I had not missed something, and nowhere does Zeek promote any rate of return. And those in the field (maybe former ASD members) are 100% out of compliance if they are, and when caught will be added to the rolls of those already terminated. (And from my understanding those who are promoting fraud, their information has been made available to law enforcement and regulators to review and monitor.)

    For some reason, the critics have never picked up on how I have mentioned over the months about investigators working inside at Zeek to catch some of these folks… But, that would not make for a good headline would it? Might be interesting in the future to see how many of the terminated out of compliance former Zeek promoters get busted themselves down the road.

    My hat is off to Patrick for keeping it real, but you sport, should take a page out of his book to at least add some value to your comments.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  261. Here's a really good article. Zeek Rewards members, your leaders are asking you to cough up your dough to help fellow ponzie schemer of Ad Surf Daily by some needed sundries while in jail. As said by Zeek leaders, Zeek wouldn't be possible if it wasn't for him because Zeek copied his business model and "paved the way" (paved the way to an orange jump suit).

    Troy, will you visit Dawn and Paul in jail or send them money to by a tooth brush?


  262. I continue to love your stuff Troy! Thanks a million for your great reporting on your many issues, including Zeek Rewards.


    James Wehner

  263. Continued… One can over analyze and become a weakness.

    Greg, you said, "Yes, trust the leadership, or not. This is their business and it’s no different than owning a stock in a company you trust or you don’t"

    And this is where we just have to politely disagree. There are just too many red flags, and a lack of evidence from the company and the affiliate community to ease my skepticism. Comparing Zeek to a securIties investment would make them cringe. Zeek is Very different than owning a stock because remember, Zeek is not an investment. In a stock investment all I can do is sell my stock or buy more if I believe in it or not. I do not have relations with stocks. In Zeek I am an advertiser so I should at least be able to have confidence in my product.

    And I do not.

  264. @Gen3Benz,

    This has been in the works for months, and Zeek Rewards News announced that sometime in July they would become active.

  265. @livingthebeachlife and Mike

    Both of you determined that I came to the conclusion Zeek is a scam. If you look at my comments, and previous comments on other articles, you will see that I have tried to ask for evidence that affirms Zeek as viable. I have struggled because no one offers it,but I persist because I want someone to stand up with solid evidence because I want my skepticism to be shut down so I can recruit again. Greg above gave a very well written and polite response to my comments, but he did not attempt to address the "customer" issue. I can only speculate because he cannot honestly say he has customers in a reasonable amount who bought anything, just like most everyone else.

    To answer each of you, I never concluded Zeek was a scam. I'm too analytical to conclude it is a scam in my heart. Evidence says it is, however there is no conclusive evidence it is a scam, and I consider anything positive i can find.

    However, I am attempting to withdraw 10k I put in, and 10k in my wife's account. I have made three requests over 5k. I have two more requests to do.We have been unable to get it back any money yet due to ewallet issues. Only one has reached ewallet, and still waiting for check. I have been unable to get other two from Payza

    and have tickets in for two weeks now with no answer. I

    have informed my downline of my reservations. I intend to

    get back the 20k and walk. I am not willing to lose the 20k. One could fairly question my ethics for taking my initial injection, but I have my own rationalization.

    Greg makes a valid point. One can over analyze and

  266. @Steve,

    Although, you wrote to MB, I would like to make clear for those who might read and not fully understand what you are referring some of the facts (not the myth's you so graciously pointed out.) 🙂

    1. Only a court of law can determine a company they are a scheme, scam, ponzi or pyramid, not a blogger.

    2. To say any company is "in trouble with the AG's office" is at best ambiguous. If we look at the N.C. AG's office Duke Energy is in trouble with them. Duke is a $60 Billion dollar company and the North Carolina AG just hit them with an investigation. Does that make them a scheme, ponzi, scam, pyarmid?

    For whatever reason most critics do not seem to understand, then best thing to happen to any company is for the state AG where they are domiciled to come investigate their business model. Once the AG has determined the company is doing things correctly, or suggests they fix specific areas, then distributors aka affiliates can rest easier they are with a company with some longevity, at least where the regulators are concerned.

    3. the facts are completely off where Dawn is concerned. Dawn is neither the head of anything, or an equity member in Rex Venture Group, LLC. Paul Burks and his top leaders in Lexington are in control. Dawn has never been located in Lexington, nor is her staff. Nor has she ever held any equity in the company.

    4. Zeek has NEVER used off shore banks period! I believe what the critics are trying to point at is that Zeek used an international credit card processor to process specific credit cards. But what they did not report on was the funds processed were deposited and/or transferred into US Banks or the eWallets used by affiliates for commissions. So there has never been, nor is there now any Rex Venture Group, LLC funds in any offshore location.

    5. The two bloggers, do not have any proof, at all. And if they did, they would gladly produce the proof, because they have made it clear they are for protecting the people.

    Steve, great way to shed light on the facts. And from a personal note, thanks for not agreeing with me on everything. If you did, our friendship would suck 🙂

  267. Mb

    Here are some for you. " Zeek is a scheme " Zeek is in trouble with the ag,s office" Zeek is a ponzi" " Dawn is the head of the scheme" " Zeek is using offshore banks, the first sign of a ponzi" and on and on. These were written by the two bloggers at bmlm. Do they have proof to back any of this up? These are very strong words to say about any companywithout proof. Could Zeek be quilty of one or all of these statements? Yes, but until you have some facts be profesional about your reporting and who are these people? How could you possibly take anything they say seriously when they hide behind curtain not identifying themselves. Troy runs an honest site and has the integrity to identify himself. Do i agree with everything he says? No, but atleast he provides an up front honest forum.


  268. Troy , we love Zeek rewards but would like to know when the nexppay check that was not paid for7/2 will be sent. we are currently using alert pay and those checks are being posted ok.. the 7/2 check is caught up in a snag tho.l I am happy to hear some of the next pay checks have started being posted. Can you tell us how long it will be for that back check?

  269. @MB

    I respect what you say here and I understand your concern. I must ask though if you truly feel in your heart that Zeek is a scam , unsustainable,paying rewards off of new affiliates coming into the company.

    Why not just close your account, and walk away? Now you may say because you have X amount of points and you want to get your money out. But points are not money and even if they were, why would you want to collect "illegal" money?

    Or you may say I have introduced people and I want them to get their money. But again points are not dollars, and again even if they were dollars why would you want people to receive (Dirty Money)?

    Sincerely Mike

  270. MB,

    I'm not in total disagreement with you, but I have a tempered viewpoint. When you're splitting hairs about not attacking Steve for being "simple-minded" versus his statement being such, I know you are extremely analytical and that's probably one of your strengths. It also can become a weakness, although my rebuttal is primarily aimed at OZ and others who spend huge chunks of their lives in a negative vibe being professional critics with one point of view. When there are reports of them deleting posts that don't agree with them, the mission becomes clearly rigid and slanted in it's own agenda.

    But "simple-minded" is an insult however you want to tie it to an individual, and it's mildly insulting to those of us who have a different perspective than you do, although I'm not trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. I don't care that much, my skin is thicker than that. I'm a big picture, vision guy frankly, although details matter as I run all aspects of my own 14 employee business. I believe "Zeek is awesome" isn't cult-like babble, although I choose not to make such blanket statements without more behind it. But It's their succinct perspective, and it doesn't mean they don't have their own concerns or are cult-like.

    Have you read StandOut by Marcus Buckingham? I highly recommend it. It speaks of identifying your top 2 strengths and developing them, and basically leave the weaknesses alone. In the process you find leaders are very different one from another, yet very effective. Advisor, teacher, connector, influencer, pioneer, etc. My digression point is that not everyone has to analyze every last detail or look at everything the way you do to be effective or valid in their perspective. Analogies to grasshoppers and horse manure may be the way some people look at situations, and that may be a strength if you could sit down and talk to them as they may help you see things differently. As detail/analytical types, a critic can also become dangerous as they are often drawing conclusions based on the limited information they have, which is incomplete. I don't care what you believe is happening, none of us really do without being able to look at proprietary data, and conclusions about sustainability based on the very limited data you see is potentially creating an inaccurate point of view. "Just the facts" is fine, if you have all the facts. And I know it drives you crazy you don't have all the facts, but no one sees 5% of the numbers in my business and if they did, there would be lots of surprises!

    I deal with lots of product reps, who hand out thousands of samples. I've discussed the conversion ratio with them of samples to sales, out of curiosity. They tell me it's all over the board, but it's generally a very low percentage. But they know that the small percentage converted will tend to be loyal for an extended period of time. Samples to sales is a numbers game, and it's very different for every industry. How do you know what conversion ratio exists in Zeek, and what MUST exist to be sustainable? How many repeat customers do they need, and are there large regional differences in conversions, US vs. Romania, for example?

    Case reports are insignificant, but I have a cousin in Australia who first told me about penny auctions, as a user. She does it all the time. She buys dozens of bids and it's entertainment to her but she's won some cool stuff. 2 years later, she still buys them. How many of those people exist, and how many does Zeek need? How much profit exists in a Ford Mustang that requires purchased, not free bids, and sells for over $4000? Isn't that 400,000 bids on one product? What is the profit margin there with low overhead? There are so many proprietary questions that the critics can't answer. So I find the authoritarian stance a little repulsive, when it starts to sound like everyone else is simple-minded or borderline idiotic.

    I have said it before and been criticized but it's true: If you don't like it, if you don't believe in it, if you're uncomfortable with sustainability, then get out. And I mean it for your own health and sanity. If something is causing too much stress, anxiety or negativity, then cut it off! That's personal advice from my own cardiologist and it's saving years of my life. Yes, trust the leadership, or not. This is their business and it's no different than owning a stock in a company you trust or you don't. I think the key is to find a reasonable balance between trusting the company and seeking answers based on limited data, trends, and subjective analysis.

  271. @Victor R.

    Here's some of your "hard to refute facts":

    * I have been in Zeek for about 8 months now

    * weekly withdrawals

    * surpass $5,000

    * have 15 direct referals of which ALL but ONE are making thousands a week

    * have over 320 people on the overall team of which EVERYONE of them is making money, anywhere from $50 a day to 1000 a day (this are our withdrawals)

    * we are not special, we do not belong to some special team in Zeek we are just comonsense marketers that now how to wrok the business.

    * I run a successful MLM company

    * and completely understand some of the problems zeek is facing

    * as I have faced them myself in our business.

    You can't expect other people to answer comments like that? Most of it revolves around your own personal experience and your own situation. Nobody except you yourself will be able to decide whether it's fact or not, and I don't think anyone really cares, either.

    Factual information is usually "Zeek is facing …" plus a list of the problems Zeek is facing, not "I do completely understand some of the problems Zeek is facing". The last statement is only about your ability to understand something, not about the topic itself.

    In a discussion about Zeek's business model, your statements about your own experience will be exactly that, statements about your own experience rather than some factual information about the business model. People's own experience with something will of course be very difficult to refute, but it will also have very little meaning for other people.

    You, yourself, your downline and your income are obvisously your OWN favourite topics in discussions, but it doesn't make much meaning when it's mixed in with discussions about other topics.

    Your comment was probably not deleted because of "hard to refute facts", but because of an overall lack of meaningful content for other readers. It would have had some meaning if the discussion had been about "Victor R's downline, income and ability to understand Zeek's business problems".

  272. @Joseph,

    Thank you for reaching out and sharing. I do want to clear up a few things, and do it respectfully.

    1. There has never been a 97% failure rate in network marketing. This is a myth that was created by who knows, years ago. It is kind of like the myth that some study was done at Harvard or Yale about goal setting. For the last two decades we have seen a net increase in both sales of products/services and in the net growth of distributors.

    And, I always wonder what criteria is used for the 95% to 95% failure rate. Any industry or niche with that high of failure rate would never sustain itself. But, I do understand where Paul is coming from and support his passion to make it so the average person joining network marketing can earn a nice part-time income.

    2. Qualifiers are established not to penalize affiliates, but too make sure the business model can sustain itself over time. In most companies qualifiers will be more focused on recruiting new business partners, which in turn drives more income into the pockets of the top leaders. However, Paul has realized that for any business to sustain as an income stream for the average network marketing independent business owner, then customers must find value in what the affiliate is marketing. With the high payout in the compensation plan, plus the retail point pool bonus, the more customers using the services of Rex Venture Group, the more money the average affiliate will make.

    So, knowing Paul Burks as I do, and the passion he has for the average person worldwide, I am pretty confident these new qualifiers will benefit the masses, and may frustrate a few of the "top dos" who might have to go back to work 🙂

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  273. @ MB

    Quote from MB: I’ve also placed an ad everyday, recruited, and analyzed. I have over 70,000 points, plus my spouse has over 40,000 points. I have over 200 “customers” but I have never had a singe “customer” buy a single bid, nor my wife,nor my downline, nor upline. Zilch. Nada. This is just one Red flag that begs the reasonable question of Oz and Chang, that I can’t answer, and no affiliate has offered reasonable proof that retail sales are anything more than a rarity .

    Quote from MB: I have made some weekly withdrawals over $5000 myself, but this does not make the company legal, viable, or sustainable.

    Quote from MB: This is what the “drink the Kool Aid” reference means. And how about when there is evidence of red flags that warn the model is possibly illegal. Does one turn his head and pretend that the emperor’s clothes are beautiful?

    @ MB A person of such high ethical standards and such conviction, then I'm sure that the money you have withdrawn thus far you are setting aside to reimburse those people in your down line that are surely going to be hurt by your reckless recruitment of them into a business that may not be legal, viable, or sustainable ( you words ). If this is not the case then I would think that you will refuse to take any more withdrawals or that you are at least in the process of deactivating your zeek rewards business?

    If all that you have said you truly believe, then if you continue to take money every week from Zeek before you know for sure that the company is legal, viable, and sustainable, would this not make you a hypocrite or worse?

  274. @Brent,

    You hit it. All business runs in cycles and network marketing is no different. Through it all I think we learn some great things, find things we want to change, and grow together as a community better than some other business models. 🙂

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  275. Troy,

    Man, this brings back memories. Do you remember all the stuff with the wireless companies just a couple of years back? Same type of weird occurrences with various things, and tons of pro/con company people posting to your blog.

    Furthers my belief that this stuff runs in cycles around different segments of the industry.


  276. @Troy

    I don't know anything about these new qualifiers because nothing official has come out on them.

    The two paragraphs that follow are directly from a letter from the CEO of ZeekRewards to the affiliates.

    "One thing that has never changed, however, is our commitment to always keep the best interest of our affiliates at the forefront of everything we do! In 2001 my business partner and I began a quest to create something we called Exact Method Marketing. The idea was to find a way to reverse the 97% failure rate that had always been the reality in network marketing.

    It took us TEN YEARS of hard work, trial and error, and harsh criticism to finally achieve that goal. With the creation of ZeekRewards we finally were able to develop a truly task-driven, system based opportunity that allows people who do not have sales and recruiting skills to finally earn from a home-based business!"

    As the above paragraphs state "The idea was to find a way to reverse the 97% failure rate that had always been the reality in network marketing".

    And the statement "With the creation of ZeekRewards we finally were able to develop a truly task-driven, system based opportunity that allows people who do not have sales and recruiting skills to finally earn from a home-based business!"

    I think that alot of the affiliates at Zeek are concerned about these new qualifiers simply because statistically many of them fall into that 97% category and also they don't have the necessary sales and recruiting skills to be successful.

    As I said, I don't know what these new qualifiers are so I can't even begin to speculate on how they will affect the affiliates of ZeekRewards but I just hope that they don't squash the CEO's vision and goal!

  277. @Tissa,

    Let me clarify… When I wrote (my title) I was stating I made up the title, because I am not sure what the new communication persons title will be.

    I have not been hired by Zeek as the communication pro. But I will continue to listen to the field, and corporate leadership, and will provide input when asked or where needed.

    And, I will continue to work closely with many of the 3rd party consultants who are involved with Zeek to help make this network marketing company as solid as possable for the affiliates who are depending on the leadership to provide them a long term business model.

  278. @Tom,

    Not sure if you are talking to me personally or not. If you are refering to me, I am not taking an active role with Zeek. I will continue to listen and provide input when asked, but I am not the leader they have hired for their communication director.

    I agree 100% customer service or in this case Affiliate Relations or maybe Affiliate Experiences is the backbone. I make this issue very clear to my clients when I consult, especially with start-up companies. I can say, ViSalus is also having huge customer service issues also. So, we know that part of the issue is the massive growth. But… Knowing growth is the issue, we must also realize, CS is the backbone, so just as much resources should be focused in this areas as technical issues when running an internet based company.

  279. I have tried to engage Oz and friends on thier website many times just to see my posts deleted. Everytime you try to engage them and you have logical, truthful and hard to refute FACTS, they don’t want to engage.


    Post the facts here, so we can evaluate them?

    Behindmlm.com will usually delete SPAM, where people tries to promote a program, post a comment just to get a chance to link to their own website, and similar behaviour. It will also delete the typical "I got paid" comments, where they don't add anything to the discussion.

    If your post contained the same as your post here, the main focus in your post is on your own situation: "I have been in Zeek for 8 months, have 15 referrals, all of them are making money", etc.

    And YES, comments like that will usually be deleted. You are drowning the logical facts you may have had in some sort of self promoting or something?

    What seems to have happened is probably that you have got too emotional about something, and derailed from the track in the discussion. That impression is based on the contents of your post here, and I have not read your original post.

  280. Am I understanding that you are taking an active position in the company? Great news if so.

    Customer Service is the backbone of any company and it is sorely needing some improvements. Not only for some of the big questions that we see asked here but the individual technical issues that are genuine and need corporate involvement to address. I understand the positions that Dawn and others have stated on the topic, and I am in full agreement about taking the proper chain of command in addressing issues. But there are still too many holes and random problems that sponsors and FAQs can not deal with. We need to be able to get support even if we have to wait in a long queue. Having no support channels function consistently for an extended period of time is just a reassuring sign.

    Thanks again for all you do!

  281. @ Greg

    You commented above, "… but while you’re criticizing guys like Steve for being “simple-minded”, I find that insulting to all of us who don’t see things exactly like you."

    I did not accuse Steve of being simple minded. I said his statement was simple minded. I believe this because he so easily dismissed Oz and Chang's efforts, and labeled them possible sensationalists without common sense because they offer theories when evidence is unrefuted. Ironically, both Oz and Chang's thorough editorials and comments is evidence they are much more well-read and informed about Zeek than the vast majority of affiliates who post on the internet.

    How are you personally insulted, Greg? Do you not believe there is a lot of cult-like babble? Read the vast majority of comments from affiliates. There's one above. "Zeek is Awesome" Wow. Isn't that wonderful and informative. You will find lots of analogies (grass hoppers and horse manure), ad hominem attacks praises, Thank You Zeek, Troy you're great, Paul you're honest, Dawn you're awesome! But you will not get a lot of logical and factual debate regarding red flags from affiliates when searching the forums on the internet.

    I personally asked you how many retail customers you have out of the 400 "customers" you have. You know why I asked? Because the evidence suggest that no affiliate is selling bids in any amount that indicates the model is sustainable. I have asked over and over yet I can't get anyone to offer the evidence to put the issue to rest. It's speculative, proprietary, unknown or unanswerable, or "I'll get back later with you on that."

    But don't ask or you are negative. One should dismiss the discussion or you are not a proper MLMer, and you should get out of Zeek. Just trust the leadership.

  282. Troy,

    You wrote:

    "Zeek has hired a communications director (my title) to start getting current info out to the field."

    Does that mean that Zeek has hired you as their communications director?

    I'm sure you'll do a fine job, but just wanted to clarify.


  283. @ John

    You said "Oz and Chang often come to wrong conclusions."

    Will you please list some of these.

  284. @John

    John, you wrote above, " I will choose, whenever there is no proof otherwise, to believe our leaders. "

    This is what the "drink the Kool Aid" reference means. And how about when there is evidence of red flags that warn the model is possibly illegal. Does one turn his head and pretend that the emperor's clothes are beautiful?

  285. @Victor

    Oz and Chang do not delete logical or truthful facts or refutes. They love to engage. Your accusations about them is a bold face lie.

    I have made some weekly withdrawals over $5000 myself, but this does not make the company legal, viable, or sustainable.

    I never made a statement that Zeek is selective on payments. I do not know what or to whom you are referring. You must be confused by the posts.

    You implicated that if I were an experienced network marketer as yourself I would not be worried about the insignificant details. Sorry, sir, but I find this shallow thinking, and frankly unethical. I will always be concerned about the details. This is where the truth lies.

    I may be experienced more financially successful than you. Who knows?

  286. @gen3benz,

    I am not sure your correct in your comment. With the retail customer qualifiers, it would seem that that an affiliate must qualify to get paid from the bonus pool. But then again I could be wrong.

  287. @Tom,

    I do understand the frustration of not knowing what is going on. But I have some good news. Zeek has hired a communications director (my title) to start getting current info out to the field. I think this will help in a big way to keep all of us informed.

    I will put a call in on customer service and see if we can get some info on when things will smooth out.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  288. @Mike,

    Great question. All companies as they grow will tweak and add qualifiers to help balance the income opportunity for everyone. This is one of the unique benchmarks used by direct selling companies who desire to create long term growth.

    In most cases the qualifiers are used to manage growth, and to set the right mindset for the next stage or business development. In the first two to three years of a network marketing business the focus is on building the network, when a company hits the first benchmarks, in most cases they move to add customer qualifiers or in some cases enforce the customer qualifiers so the overall volume continues to rise even after the early builders leave for the next start-up company.

    Just like in traditional business, there are some folks in network marketing who only like the challenges of a start-up company. In most cases those folks will leave a company within the first 12 to 36 months. With Zeek hitting critical mass within their first 12 months, it is easy to see why Zeek is looking to tweak the qualifiers.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  289. Troy,

    Again, thanks for your dedication to putting out info on Zeek. Frankly, you are far more reliable when it comes to getting news then ZR is. Not to be an opportunist but since you will be talking to Dawn can you ask her what is up with Customer Support and when will we see some improvement in this area? In the last two weeks I have not once been able to get through to phone, chat or have a ticket responded to. It's awfully hard to support your team when you can't get answers on technical issues that only they can provide.


  290. MB,

    Retail bids dont ever have to be sold to customers. The RPP can sustain itself with VIP bids sales to affiliates. Just keep giving away those amazon products and the cycle will just repeat for eternity. One has to wonder if Zeek could afford to pay out all the "rewards" if every qualified affiliate set their repurchase to 0%

  291. @Greg

    Oz and Chang have not asked anyone to "see things exactly as they do" as you stated.I've also placed an ad everyday, recruited, and analyzed. I have over 70,000 points, plus my spouse has over 40,000 points. I have over 200 "customers" but I have never had a singe "customer" buy a single bid, nor my wife,nor my downline, nor upline. Zilch. Nada. This is just one Red flag that begs the reasonable question of Oz and Chang, that I can't answer, and no affiliate has offered reasonable proof that retail sales are anything more than a rarity . Why is this so? Thousands of affiliates have the same scenario. Greg, how many of your 400 "customers" have ever became a paying member of Zeekler and they bought bids, and you made a commission off their retail purchase? Also are you calling a customer someone who you believe used your free bids, or someone who actually bought something? This is the same question asked over and over that causes affiliates to get angry over the negativity.

  292. Hi Troy,

    A quick note to let you know I was paid for 7/2 through NXPay and have also been paid for 7/9 through STP. Just waiting for it to hit my bank account.

    Some in my down-line are still waiting, and some have been paid, so obviously Zeek is making some progress.

    You mentioned new qualifiers in your video. This opportunity was presented to me in such that I did not have to recruit or find people to sell stuff too. All I had to do was purchase bids and give them away to customers, and place my ad each day. But I did recruit quite a few individuals and I presented it to them that way. In fact, it was presented that way in Zeek's calls.

    Some of these people did go on to build their organizations, but some couldn't sale anything or recruit anyone if they wanted to. So this was the perfect business model for so many. I hope the new qualifiers, don't hurt these individuals.

    With that said, do you know what the new qualifiers will be?

    Thanks Troy for keeping us on top of what's going on at Zeek.

  293. @Greg

    If you have real customers paying for the bids with their own money, why haven't you come forward with your information when people have asked questions about customers?

    You have the chance now. How many real customers do you have, people who are using their own money to buy bids and spend the bids in auctions?

    It should be relatively easy to find out, since retail customers will generate matching VIP points and 20% commission when they buy bids.

    The problem is that the ones who have real customers seems to be too shy to tell about them. The ones who do tell about real customers will then create an impression of hardly any customers at all, except for the ones they have created themselves from family and friends.

    You can answer it in any way you like, e.g.:.

    "I have currently xx customers buying bids each week".

    "I have had xx customers buying bids in the last 3 months"

    "I have had a total of xx retail customers in those 12 months"


  294. People who are not well versed on how the internet works can easily be swayed by Chang/oz. Chang has an abandoned blog but he is a tenant at behindmlm because Oz picked on Zeek before him.Those guys are very smart in sensationalism but with limited faculty of facts.I will not blame them.They have to eat.They do zeek at night and attack it in day time.Eating from both sides of their mouths i guess.

  295. Greg, I totally agree with you. While this jokers keep bashing the company day in and day out, I keep depositing thousands of dollars a week on my account.

    I have tried to engage Oz and friends on thier website many times just to see my posts deleted. Everytime you try to engage them and you have logical, truthful and hard to refute FACTS, they don't want to engage. It is almost like listening to the neal Bortz Show whci I like and enjoy, but he is very clear in letting you know, he will win every argument and he will choose who to respond to or not. At least he has the balls to tell the truth.

    MB is confusing the newbies excitement and throwing a blanket statement and covering all of us experienced network marketers. If he was one, he would not be worrying about the little insignificant details and minutia and actually spen his time more positively in building a team and helping his downline become successful.

    MB talk all you want, but I have been in Zeek for about 8 months now, weekly withdrawals surpass $5,000, have 15 direct referals of which ALL but ONE are making thousands a week, have over 320 people on the overall team of which EVERYONE of them is making money, anywhere from $50 a day to 1000 a day (this are our withdrawals). we are not special, we do not belong to some special team in Zeek we are just comonsense marketers that now how to wrok the business.

    Your completely idiotic statement that zeek is selective on their payments to affiliates is not only that Idiotic, but assanine. I guess you believe that zeek pays people manually and must sit on their desk to pay 100,000's of affiliates and then choose who gets paid or not ???

    Just so you know, I run a successful MLM company and completely understand some of the problems zeek is facing as I have faced them myself in our business. Stop your complaining and get to work, that way your mind will not have time to duel in the negative minutia it is in right now.

  296. @Greg – well said!!!

    I'm reminded today of the story of the scientist who took a grasshopper and pulled off one leg at a time and after pulling off a leg told the grasshopper to jump. The grasshopper quit jumping after the last leg was removed. The scientist concluded that removing the legs of a grasshopper caused the grasshopper to go deaf.

    What I see Oz and Chang doing is interpreting the facts one way while those of us who are Zeek supporters interpret the facts another way. The checks are late. Does that mean that Zeek doesn't have the money or is being fraudulent or is poorly organized? Or does it mean that the unanticipated growth has overwhelmed Zeek and would've overwhelmed anyone because it could not have been anticipated? It comes down to whether you believe the people who are running this organization or you don't. I have studied these people, I have listened to them speak, I have watched their actions and I believe they can be trusted. I will choose, whenever there is no proof otherwise, to believe our leaders. Oz and Chang often come to wrong conclusions. I know they mean well and if they are right they will be saving a large number of people significant money. But if they are wrong, they will cause many people to pass on the opportunity of a lifetime. I'm pretty sure the grasshopper isn't deaf.

  297. MB,

    The problem is that guys like Oz aren't only skeptics, but they are guilty of viewing ZR as narrowly as those who view it through rose-colored glasses. One point I've made frequently, which is not cult-like babble, is that in the 12 months I've been with ZR, I've placed an ad EVERY single day, and brought in over 400 customers. I've watched them come in day after day, sometimes in batches, but usually one or two here and there. I've also tracked the http://www.alexa.com traffic closely over time, listened to every call and tracked every news update through many sources. Absolutely they've struggled in the past couple months due to the massive growth issues. Any company would and does, especially when pioneering a new path. That's entrepreneurship. But they continue to solve problems, even though it's slower than we would like.

    My point is that while Oz and the critics are expending massive amounts of negative energy tearing something apart for months on end, I'm tracking statistically and subjectively the company's evolution, AND making very serious amounts of money in the meantime. I'm not going to disclose "how much", but it's enough to make a huge difference in anyone's life. So while I have 8 years of formal education, I guess I lack common sense while at the same time making 100's of thousands of dollars in life by thinking outside the box. That is not said to sound condescending, but while you're criticizing guys like Steve for being "simple-minded", I find that insulting to all of us who don't see things exactly like you do.

    I will readily admit this company has issues and that's it's not all "hunky dory", but I'm baffled why someone wants to spend hours of their life trying to tear something down when they could expend the same energy creating a positive change in their lives financially or otherwise. I don't care whether it's ZR or any other opportunity to trade time for money, but I'm continually amazed by the unproductive way people invest their lives.

    Just my 2 cents, I don't care ultimately what people want to do. Some of us are making more than a living doing this and continue to have confidence that ZR will produce results.

  298. Thanks for sharing your opinion MB. I dont see it that way . This is how they make their income, much like the National enquirer. The bottom line is drive traffic to the site to put dollars in their pockets. Behind the scenes they love Zeek! Their motives are quite obvious. On this forum the facts are reported not inuendos and guess work. It all comes down to the money! Obviously making money is fine but it must be done in a responsable way.

  299. @Chris Hope,

    It is my understanding, if your account is not verified, the funds are held in escrow with STP until they verify your account. If you have more issues send me a private email and I will send to the right person at Zeek to investigate.

  300. @Coldy,

    Well since the company made it clear back in May, they would not be cutting checks for a while if ever again, since they were moving to all electronic transactions, I can't give you a solid answer. I can check and see if they are going to cut commission checks or if they are just going to release a debit card.

    I do not know about a money order. I know the company accepts certified funds, but I am not sure if a money order is classified certified funds, since they are harder to track on fraud issues. I can sure ask about that also, if you do not find it in the back office or the public website.

  301. @GlimDropper,

    SInce I have been on the road the last few weeks, I admit I have not been inside the new support forum. I will head over there today and take a look around. Good advice, and I will take it.

    Now as for telling folks what have already been resolved. I do not believe I have ever made a statement that anything has been resolved when it comes to issues… except for the fact they have their banking issue under control.

    I personally believe issues are an always moving target, kind of like the economy. If an affiliate is still having an issue with something reported solved, then it is not solved. And even when unemployment is at the lowest in modern history, if someone is unemployed, then unemployment and the economy is 100% on the downside.

    I am sure you have reviewed the comment sections on the posts. I have never stated the commission issue is solved or that all affiliates have been totally paid. I have stated that based on the new info, affiliates should be paid up to date with into the next week or so, but I am still watching.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

  302. Brad,

    The RPP consists of:

    1. retails bids sold to customers

    2. VIP bids sold to affiliates

    3. monthly subscription fees collected from affiliates

    Only employees at Zeek know the total $ coming into Zeek.

    And remember, VIP points have ZERO value, so you cant sell them at a yard sale.

  303. You statement is a fallacy of composition, and quite frankly simple-minded. Oz and Chang are skeptics. As a Zeek affiliate myself who has carefully analyzed the model, and withstood never ending red flags and gaffes, they ask legitimate questions and simply ask for logical, factual, and rational evidence and responses. Most people who view them as sensationalists are affiliates who just want everything to be all "hunky dory" without an honest assessment of ALL evidence, good and bad. Generally, both Oz, Chang and other skeptics rarely get educated debate or retort. When they do get formidable debate and evidence, they find it refreshingly welcome, and appreciate the engagement in seeking the truth. Unfortunately, educated debate is rare as most response from affiliates is cult-like babble.

  304. Troy, have you ever looked at ZR's GetSatisfaction support forum? I know for a fact that at least one person supplied you with valid login information for that forum.

    Please factor the feedback from real affiliates in the field and the problems they are continuing to face before you tell the people who rely on you for factual information regrading which problems have already been solved.

    I don't believe I'm being overly cynical in pointing out that selective payments are common to internet programs which share significant portions of ZR's comp plan. Some people get paid in full, some people are weeks to months behind in being paid.

    Based on your update it should be easy to prove if I'm being overly cynical, just login to the support forum in a few days to about a week and see if affiliates are still complaining. Might I humbly suggest that that information might be at least as valid (if not more) than what Dawn or Paul tells you.

  305. hello troy! I live in seattle, could you tell me how long it usually take for me to get a check since the day I request it?

    second question: I know an affiliate, he or she doesn't have a bank account. He or she want to upgrade from free affiliate to active affiliate. Can he or she send the money order for the company to upgrade for him or her?

    Thank you for your time Troy…Have a nice day

  306. Troy, someone directed me to your blog-thanks for the Zeek info. I was supposed to get my first check after 5 month 7-9-I thought I had done all the verification for STP etc, then was told by STP to resend the info, so I don't know what happens to the payment if you are not verified when check is issued.

    Thanks for any input,


  307. @Yvonne,

    I will be on the phone with Dawn later tonight and will ask about this issue.

  308. @Brad,

    I do not have an answer to how many auctions per day. I know it is not the 8000 QuiBids does a day, but I will have to look. At one time it was over 300, but I do not know lately because I have not asked.

    This information was provided a couple of months ago at the Red Carpet Day. I will reach out to Alex and find out.

    As for the amount of Affiliates those are propitiatory numbers and I do not have them. I know the database is still growing and that over 100,000 ZR affiliates have now gone through the compliance course. I do not know if those affiliates are US based or worldwide.

    The new IDS will not be out until January of 2013, but I will see if we can get a number. Some folks have thrown the number 400,000 to 500,000 affiliates, and it is my understanding most of those are free affiliates, which I am not sure are classified as active. I believe active means a monthly subscription.

  309. Troy,

    How many auctions does Zeekler have each day? As of now, 3:30 p.m. AZ time, there are:

    Penny Auctions – 28

    Falling Auctions – 8

    Future Auctions – 30

    How many auctions are performed each day and what is the average number of bids per auction (free and paid)? I know the bids vary by product, but is there a daily average for the auctions?

    Also, how many affiliates are there in Zeek Rewards and how many new affiliates have been signed up in May and June (two most recent months)? According to the 2011 income disclosure statement it appears there were 44,693 total affiliates and 15,318 of them were active, but what has happened so far in 2012? Thank your for any assistance you can provide.

  310. Hi,

    Thanks for posting this because so many people have been asking me about what was going on with Zeek Rewards. More then half on the information going around on the internet about Zeek Rewards is false, so again thank you for clearing it up.

  311. Hey Troy, Thanks so much for your updates. Do you think you can ask Dawn when they plan on reissuing the checks that we didn't get to cash before June 1st. Will that be taken care of this week as well? I've been trying to get one replaced since May. Thanks again for all you do for us.

  312. @Ljerka,

    I have promised to continue working on finding an answer outside of the one already given by Paul and Dawn. We may find with the new banks and processors these countries may be reopened. Each Red Carpet this question is brought up and the same answer is given, which has publicly been addressed by Paul Burks.

    I would disagree 100% about the ripped off part. Those who have contacted me privately, who were due refunds were provided those refunds. If you want to send me your Zeek ID I can gladly sent it to the right person.

    I will continue to try and find answers above what I have already written about or what Paul and Dawn have talked about.

  313. Hi,

    it is surely the good news for all the Zeeklers, but you have promised to find out and tell why Slovenia, Croatia and other countries have been banned and people from these countries disactivated. Nothing happened and no explanation has been gven to us.

    Neither Paul nor Dawn have never find time or showed the will to explain why we are not decent enough to work with the Zeek community and why were ripped off.

  314. As always, great stuff.

    It is nice to have up to date information about programs which warrant your attention.

    Your reports always ease my mind when it comes to ZeekRewards. Thank you for keeping us informed.

  315. Troy, Thank you for your continuous objective reporting. I guess now we can lay to rest the theories that Zeek was going to use offshore banks to hide their money from regulaters, Dawn and Mr Burks were running off to an island with the money, the small town bank dumped Zeek because they were in trouble and on and on! Oz, Chang and the rest of the crew over there can be quite entertaining to say the least. Is this sensationalism done to drive traffic to their site? They are the typical 4.0 college grads without enough common sense to look both ways before they cross the street!


  316. Check out the arrest record right below the highlighted one. Note to self: Always wear a seatbelt especially when driving through Lexington NC 🙂

  317. Thanks for the updates, Troy! Kudos to you and Zeek for all your efforts. See you in NC 🙂

  318. Thank you Sir Dooly for your utmost vigilance and diligence for our MLM community including the ZeekRewards and other penny auction communities. Your news on the top of the security we have in place will help keep those swindlers at the bay. Salute to you, SIR!

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