MLM Wireless VOIP News: VOIParty MLM Pyramid or MLM Company

MLM Wireless VOIP News: Is VOIParty just another MLM VOIP pyramid scam or legitimate MLM VOIP company? Well over the last few weeks we have received several calls and emails on this new south Florida company, which is why I am putting out this MLM Scam Alert.

What makes this company so interesting is the fact, their technology is not new (although they act like it is), and the fact they use a force matrix (except they have not published the compensation plan) and refuse to call themselves an MLM company.

Here is part of an email I received this weekend.

“While VoiParty is not by definition an MLM (it does not require any monthly purchase so VoiParty lawyers are trying to get a new classification for the company); in fact, as a box buyer you are not even required to sign-up anyone—you just maximize your income if you do so, and who would not want to pass on this passive income option to their friends?”

Let’s take a look at this paragraph for a second.

1. No MLM company requires monthly autoship to be part of the company – So they sure sound MLM to me.

2. Our Lawyers are trying to get a new classification – Folks MLM or Network Marketing are structures of the sale force and compensation plans. All companies who have an independent sales force and pay using more than three levels of compensation are direct selling companies and there is no other classification.

Now, here are a few benchmarks where they have failed.

1. They do not list the founders of the company

2. They state they are in Invitation launch, but have not published as the date of this post the policies and procedures or the compensation plan documents.

3. They state they hired Scott Warren as their MLM attorney. I question if they are taking Scott’s advice. Scott has been a friend of the DRA for years, and is a well respected legal mind. They complete launch does not look like any other company I have ever seen Scott represent.

Now, let’s take a look at a few of their videos which have raised some questions.

1. The statement made in this video “The majority of people who join Network Marketing never recoup their initial investment is completely false. First people DO NOT invest in MLM when they join. Second Direct Selling News reported this last year that the average MLM distributor earns $2500.00 annually. Where do they get their facts, and why launch an MLM if they do not like the profession?

2. VOIParty is stating people INVEST in their company when they join. Not only is this illegal on a federal level, it is also illegal in the state of Florida. Where is the prospectus if the company?

3. In the above video VOIParty states Everyone recovers their INVESTMENT. This is a statement of what will happen before it happens. Again since the company has not launched, this will be seen by regulatory agencies as an incitement to join, based on hypothetical, not on factual historical data. Where is the mathematical equations used to come to this conclusion?

I challenge VOIParty to fix these issues before they launch and issue a retraction to everyone who has already joined.

Now, as you review the compensation video, it is easy to see a standard force matrix. In and of itself I have no problem with the compensation, except I do not believe it will work for this business in the long run.

1. Right off the bat, the video focuses on sponsoring new people into the compensation plan to earn income. Nothing is said about retail selling of the service. Are commissions paid for retail sales?

2. From the video, and remember no documentation is available, everyone is part of the matrix, which means there is no service being sold to anyone outside of the compensation plan in one form or another. this is a red flag for all regulatory agencies, as well as us here at MLM Help Desk.

On the surface I believe this company has a viable service, but when they added a matrix and focused 100% on recruiting into the compensation plan, it falls into the legal definition of an MLM Pyramid!

This last video shares a little deeper into the technology and idea behind the VOIParty.

We will keep an eye on this company, and look forward to talking to some of the owners if they come forward.

Living An Epic Adventure,

Troy Dooly

Spread The News!

48 thoughts on “MLM Wireless VOIP News: VOIParty MLM Pyramid or MLM Company”

  1. Def a scam, I went to a meeting over 5 years ago they said we will be launching soon!!!
    Over 5 years later still haven’t launched anything. Def a pyramid scheme..

  2. What about companies like 5Linx that focus heavily on recruiting via the lure of paying out dividends for Utilities, Satellite service, etc? To me, this company seems a little shady.

  3. Pete,

    Welcome to our community. Seriously sport, how come you didn’t answer any of the questions? Seems you just want your 15 min of fame.

    Come on, don’t spam the site, bring some value to it.

  4. Here we go again another clown that dosen't know his ass from his elbow do you homework buddy !

  5. I found this 5 minute video to be very informative and some FAQs that will answer every one of your doubts and questions. http://www.freeofthebox.com/legacy you might have to cut and paste. It seems that this video is more up to date and accurate. Hope this helps,

  6. I found this 5 minute video to be very informative and some FAQ’s that will answer every one of your doubts and questions. http://www.freeofthebox.com/legacy you might have to cut and paste. It seems that this video is more up to date and accurate. Hope this helps,
    Steelman

  7. BigPicView,

    I think you may want to dig a little deeper into the Kodak story. It is actually more like when Harry Ford was running Ford. It wasn't that they did not see it coming, they just did not want to accept what was before their eyes.

    However, with less and less people using landlines traditional or VoiP, I still see the basic business model having to change form B2C to a B2B business model.

  8. I like to use the analogy of what the digital camera did to the chemical film development industry in just a few short years to illustrate the magnitude of what's about to happen in the inter exchange carrier marketplace.

    Even Kodak, didn't see it coming and barely made it into the new age of digital camera because of that shortsightedness.

    This is the level of change that an inexpensive indoor digital architecture will bring to a utility currently based on a pole and wire architecture.

    And just as you can do far more with a digital camera than simply taking pictures, you will be able to do far more with a Voiparty connection box than just connecting long distance calls.

    And one big difference is that individual entrepreneurs were not offered a business opportunity with the rollout of digital cameras.

    CIC will be in place in short order. Check back because as soon as it's here I will be asking Troy to move this thread out from under the SCAM ALERT tab.

  9. If you think VoiParty is primarily about competing in the low cost long distance market you have missed the vision of the company.

    Will they have low cost long distance? Sure… as one of many value propositions but not their only one and ultimately not their main one.

    So many people just can't see beyond the immediate picture of long distance phone service.

    They don't get how buiding a continent wide indoor digital telephone network is going to not only transform an existing utility but will create an entirely new way to deliver digital products and services. (cont. next post)

  10. BigPicView,

    Again, you have validated my concerns. The current rules and regulations are very clear when it comes to using a MLM sales or compensation structure, robots don't count, the sales must be made by a distributor, to a real live person.

    And I also checked and do not see any new class action lawsuit filed on a federal level to question this regulation on behalf of VoiParty or direct sales distributors as a whole.

    And, in looking at current pending legislation in the State of Florida there is nothing on the floor of the Legislator asking for the Florida laws to be changed.

  11. Big Pic view,

    I do find this part of your information a little short sighted. Current numbers show that less than 75% of US households currently have landlines and this is dropping every year. Wireless is the wave of the future, and I figure by the end of the decade, most households will be using wireless. Which means VoiParty will have to change the business model and become a B2B company.

    How does this fit into the plans?

  12. Big Pic View,

    There is no doubt you make a great argument for VoiParty. However, the laws are clear… Sales must be made by a human to a human. And the majority of customer sales are suppose to be made outside the compensation structure. This is what forms a MLM diamond instead of a MLM pyramid.

    Agian, this is not about doubting or even questions the core business model. This is making a clear distinction between current rules and regulations, and your desire to prove the MLM model will work with VoiParty.

    I can see where an affiliate program would work great. But,when deciding to use a MLM sales and compensation structure, I have a feeling the attorney's know at best this is questionable and they will earn some good money debating it before the courts.

    In the end, if the courts stand on their ruling, then the only folks who will win are the attorney. If the compensation plan is proven to be illegal for this business model, then the reps lose big time, and just like Burn Lounge, the company will be gone when the distributors leave.

  13. So what it comes down to MIke, is that the way you make a sale to a robot is different than the way you make a sale to a human. But we are still making a sale. It's just a lot easier.

    You talk to a human with your voice. "Hey, would you like to buy your long distance minutes for less?" Maybe the person will say yes.

    You talk to a robot with your connection box. "Hey, we've got the lowest cost for minutes over here in this little box." Definitely the robot will say yes.

    The bottom line is a choice was made to go with the least cost bidder and a toll was charged for the call- a sale was made.

    VoiParty's brilliant innovation is to seamlessly integrate within an existing system so that all sales are assured.

    If this model is something that you wish to doubt or Troy wishes to warn against, so be it.

    The Wright brothers were told they would never fly too.

  14. The buying decision made by a human being was made a long time ago when they agreed to be a part of this systemitized approach to switching calls down the least cost route.

    That human being was operating in the capacity of a corporate officer whose fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders is to deliver the highest level of profitability possible. By deciding to incorporate as company who's main product is call delivery they entered into the robotic system that was established by the industry regulators after the breakup of the Bell monopoly.

    The power to make the buying decision was authorized to the robot by a human. "Yes, robot, we trust you to connect every one of our subscriber's calls for the least cost possible. Go and do our bidding." (cont. next post)

  15. As far as "no selling" is concerned, I suggest you go to the other VoiParty thread here at the Helpdesk and read up on how VoiParty members make sales.

    This is "one for the books" as VoiParty's 21st century business model has opened up a whole new area that doesn't fit existing sales models.

    You could think of it like this: VoiParty is selling to "a robot." The robot has been programmed to connect long distance calls via the least cost route offered. Vendors compete for the business by uploading their particular cost per minute into the robot's data base.

    All phone companies seeking to deliver long distance calls outside of their own infrastructure use the robot to find them the best deal available for each call. The robot 's operation systemetizes the marketplace and makes sure every phone company optimizes their profitibility.

    (cont. next post)

  16. Hi Mike,

    From your comments I don't think you've checked in on a company presentation for quite a while. The word investment was removed a long time ago (and a thank you to Troy is in order for pointing it out so it could be corrected).

    Mike, have you ever made a mistake? Most humans have. VoiParty corrected that mistake when it was brought to their attention. (You can see my comments about the colloquial context they were speaking in when they first used the word at the very beginning of this comments thread. Of course they weren't offering an investment as the SEC would define that word. That's ridiculous).

    (cont. next post)

  17. cont.

    When looking at this from a value standpoint, I don't see any savings. You have to have an unlimited local designated line which in my area, through Verizon is over $30.00 a month for residential, and I know if what I am hearing about routing other peoples calls through your landline, Verizon will pop you with business rate as surely as the day is long, so watch this cost to double when caught. Given you need a high speed connection as well, I have to ask, where are the savings? Verizon just cut a deal with Skype, so wireless VOIP is going to become mainstream with or without Voiparty, so where are the savings? No value in this market, not success, it is as simple as that.

    Success to all,
    http://www.RecessionProof-Business.com

  18. Amazing,

    To think any MLM would use the word investment in their presentation demonstrates they are out to lunch on legal issues alone. It is near impossible to avoid the investment claim even when you don't mention it in your presentation in a deal like this where it is clearly selling a rather generic Cisco router for three times the price and deriving commissions from this sale. Whatever is being promised in the future as to earning money from having this device with no selling to others is going to be looked at as an investment, the same as what the company presentationes states, so look for short term results, but not long term is my take on Voiparty. In addition, they make claims which cannot be substantiated regarding CIC registration, another red flag.

    cont.

  19. I am told we could be another week out in terms of cut over. Our Leadership meeting is each Tuesday at 3 pm EST so hopefully, I will get even more information there.

    On a more positive note, I spoke to a gentlemen who goes to the corporate sponsored LOCAL meeting each week as it is only about 1 hour for him. He sees Joe Machado each week and gets a good pulse on the inner workings. His passion and commitment to this business is nothing short of amazing. He made a very interesting point to me. He said, right now many people are just sitting back and watching and we are still growing. What will happen when we actually cut checks to all you and you all see that we have a viable product? This business will explode. We have people coming in and on our waiting list based on faith, trust and hope. What will happen when all of this becomes a reality and YOU get a check for the IXC fees?

    I think the growth we will see will be staggering. Many people need concrete proof that this is for real before they will stake their reputation on it. Once we do, look out!

    Where are you? Will you sit back and wait to take action or will you take that first step and build a team so that when the REALITY hits the fan, you can benefit from the growth?

    We are only a month away (in my opinion) to seeing ALL that has been talked about. The finalized site, the new professional video, the new back office, the new 3×12 matrix, the proof that our poles work and can terminate calls and generate income. I hope you realize it is coming, Joe is on the corporate call each week and our leadership calls twice per week. He is working 12-15 hours per day. He is not hiding. It will happen. Now, understand I am not saying you won't see any of this for a month, I just think we will see all of it in a month.

    We DO have the bios up and we do have terms and conditions and policies and procedures. We are testing the boxes this month, several hundred actually. We are making progress, just not as quickly as all of us would like to see.

    Those who have the vision to see the potential that VoiParty offers will be the ones who reap the greatest rewards. Those who sit by waiting for the proof will wish they had taken action.

  20. Pingback: MLM Wireless VOIP News: VOIParty MLM Pyramid or MLM Company | MLM … » MLM Blog Stream
  21. Sure. Getting 1.3 mil boxes in North America is just step one. They may make a decision to do more later but for now that's the target that will allow coast to coast coverage. Theoretically they don't NEED any more than that to take 15% market share and dominate any route they want to.

    Two things you haven't taken into consideration yet: Once they are up and running in US & Canada they go world wide. There will be millions more boxes to be placed then so the hypothetical "last" people in will override international biz.

    The other more important fact that you are not seeing and Troy is not seeing is that this isn't about just capturing long distance revenue. That's only the method of establishing the full saturation of connection boxes.

    Not to make light of $100M revenues per month from LD but the real money will be made when VoiParty engages the network to start sending other digital products and applications down the conduit to the platform. Every time they add another back end value added product – BAM!, Voiparty member's checks take a quantum leap.

  22. any good business, mlm included is a pyramid if it's set up correctly… someone at the top, people under them, etc etc… not saying pyramid schemes are good, not at all, just saying the structure is in that shape… so her's my question about this plan "closing" when they get 1.3 million people… those folks toward the bottom will not be able to grow there downlines… so how will they take care of that… it doesnt add up for those getting in right before the big "close" sign is put on the party door… any thoughts???

  23. This is about GETTING a monthly check, NOT PAYING a monthly bill that's a few dollars less than Vonage or whoever.

    VoiParty members get free long distance for life in with the deal but the key feature, Jones, is that we make money, not pay money. As a matter of fact we will be making money off of YOU! 🙂

    By creating the worlds first indoor telephone company the business model allows us to make money from EVERYONE's long distance calling, not just the people in VoiParty. That's incredible when you get what it means in terms of monthly revenues.

  24. By necessity, the systems are being hybridized here at the beginning of the changeover. It's got to be a smooth transition to move from landlines to VOIP and wireless. There's not a whole new system over here that someone is going to throw a switch and it will replace landlines.

    No, it's a migration of technologies that will employ the existing system to transcend the existing system and VoiParty is on the leading edge of that transition with first mover advantage.

    Jones, most people don't get it until they look into it a liitle more so your reaction is more the norm but I assure you, you are missing the bigger picture. The landline business will not be kicked to the curb like an old piece of garbage that we don't use anymore.

    It will be incremementally fashioned into the new way of doing things.

    If you thought that this was another "save on your long distance plan" you totally missed it. VoiParty is building the first ever coast to coast digital indoor telepnone company and we are being offered an opportunity to help them do it.

    (Continuted again).

  25. Yes, Jones, that's a common error that people make all the time.

    In the mind things are segregated by category like land lines in this basket and VOIP and wireless in that basket and then we mistakenly think they have nothing to do with each other. "Why would l want to get involved with a land line connected business when everything is going to wireless?"

    The fact that has escaped you and so many others is that the telecom industry is TRANSITIONING from from hardwIred lines (which by the way still makes up 75% of all phone lines in the US).

    What's underway is a process that COMBINES all the landlines with the new VOIP and wireless technologies. (Continued in next post. Still getting that my posts are too big).

  26. I came across these service a few weeks ago and was not impressed since a land line along with broadband is necessary in order to have the service and as we all know people are replacing land lines with VOIP and wireless.

  27. BigPicView,

    That is strange. We have seen that happen a couple of times over the last few months. Please try against today. One suggestion I might make is, if you write the comment inside of word before you post, copy and paste it into wordpad before you paste into the comment box. Word has so much extra hidden coding, that may be causing the issue.

    Living An Epic Adventure

    Troy

  28. Troy,

    I tried to post a comment but I kept getting a pop up telling me my post was too long but no matter how many segments I tried to cut it into it still said it was too long.

    This was very puzzling to me because my posts were not nearly as long as several above. Can you tell me what's up with that?

    I thought maybe it was because I was posting as a guest so I registered as an intensedebate member and logged in but the same thing happened.

    Any advice?

  29. Thomas,

    Thank you for stopping by. These are words of wisdom all distributors should read and take to heart.

    Thank you for sharing.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

    Troy

  30. Troy,

    Most people that say "people do not make money in this industry" is saying it without looking at one important key. If you work your business very little, very little money is made. That's a hobby. The same would apply if you worked for a company. You would make an hours worth of income. VOIParty is not a new company. Do more digging on this one. I saw this same video well over a year. I can not recall the name of the company then but it promoted itself back then not to be an MLM company. They were looking for people to share their peer network platforms with other and would compensation people for doing so. MLM is a great industry and its not really different than any other except people have to realize just like you work in Corporate America, you work your business and if you work hard, the compensation will reward you bigger than in Corporate America.

    A lot of these companies are jumping in this telecom segment because yes they see money in it. They know the consumer (especially young consumer) will purchase new technology and ther're banking on the fact people are looking to make extra money these days.

  31. John,

    We are have reason we do things, and I respect your privacy as to why.

    I 100% agree my comments are harsh, as for premature NO! I did not speak up in the past when I have seen issues with companies because of my relationships with the owners or distributors. However after seeing 6400 plus great distributors without a home this week, I have decided NEVER to hold back.

    If a company has a great idea and they believe it is time to take it to market, then I will do all I can to help them get their message out. However, if they put a compensation plan to it, that is outside the rule of law, then I will bring it to the attention of all who may decide to join. If the company and their distributors decide to roll the dice, then so be it. But at least there will be one place where folks can get both sides of the equation.

    I will never delete or not publish comments which disagree with mine, and I have been known to change my mine when companies fix issues. So, you are correct my comments were very straightforward and harsh. And some may say they are premature. But I would rather be premature, than publish something after the fact.

    John, show me a profession where the majority of people are not as successful as some financially. But why does that mean they were not successful? Success is a journey and in most cases people become complacent in life and give up on their objectives. I can share story after story of people who will tell you they have become better people because of MLM, and it had nothing to do with the income. It had to do with the products or services, and the personal development.

    I can do the same thing in the software industry, sports, real estate and the list goes on and on. I'm second generation in this profession and I have seen the good, bad and ugly. I fully understand most people will only work it in their spare time and will not reach financial freedom.

    You are right statistics can say anything, I will agree with you on that. But seriously why would anyone publish statistics showing $2053 per year, if they were fake? Logic would tell us the statistics would be so grand story of huge success, like those we see on some MLM guru's sites. What would $2053 do for most folks these days?

    Most people on the next have only done business is a small sub-niche of MLM and have never taken time to see what the whole profession is all about, or the fact most of the big money is earned by women, not men.

    You are right my experience does come into play. I have seen and been a part of thousands of success stories, some were financial, some were health, some were relational. But, if you look at statistics in every industry or profession it is the same. What I don't understand is why so called MLM lovers all focus on the negative. It is no wonder some people never win, they are not focused on the finsih line, they are looking over their shoulders.

    Take some time to read through just the publicly traded companies who use an MLM compensation plan to pay their field force. Millions of dollars flow to the field. If you look at Primerica alone you see they pay more annually to their field force and have created more seven, six, five and four figure earners than any company in history, inside or outside of MLM. And that is just one company.

    I respect the fact you disagree with my opinion. But, John being in a profession for 15 years is not the same as living the profession all your life. My tenure is not just with one company, or multiple companies as a distributor. I have been inside corporate, and outside in the field. I have read most of the court cases, and laws from each state. I live this profession from every angle and do my best to provide a factual balanced approach.

    If as an outsider I bring forth these issues, and others have come to me on these issues, then there is a good possibility the legal agencies will also raise this issues.

    No, I have not talked with Joe. However, my MLM Attorney did contact the home office of VOIParty raising the same concerns, and suggested their take a deeper look at the MLM side of things.

    John, waiting could get the hopes of folks high. With the amount of questions we had coming in, I had to write something. We were first approached about VOIParty several months ago, and made private suggestions. These changes did not take place, and more and more people kept asking for a review, I decided to post a review raising some important questions.

    However, I was very clear, I do not believe the founder of this company are scammers, I just believe they do not fully understand the MLM laws, and that Scott Warren would not sign off on this type of MLM business model.

    I did pull available information off the site. One of the basic fundamentals of launching ANY company with an MLM or Network Marketing compensation plan is what is used to publicly entice people to join the company. When a company is using words like "Investment" "Closing the party" and providing dollar figures without public documentation on the compensation plan, policies and procedures, then they have already violated both federal and state laws governing business opportunity and MLM businesses. Which is what I brought to the surface.

    It is never the big things which bring a company down, and leave distributors with no income. It is the small issues blown over, and not important.

    John, I agree honesty and integrity is the #1 issue all distributors should look at. However, if what is said is not what is written, then I have to raise the question that the Ethics of the company are not flowing into a walk of integrity. Ethics is what we say we stand for, integrity is the walk we live within the ethics. There is no separation between the person founding the company and the company itself.

    I truly respect your position, and I believe you give folks a great view from a different perspective than mine.

    I do hope you do not stay gone long. If you see changes or folks asking questions, which you feel there is a different answer, I hope for the sake of potential VOIParty distributors you share your insight.

    Spirited debate is what founded this great country, and it is party of our freedoms.

    You have my respect, and like Vann you will make a great leader in VOIParty.

    I love the fact you have the right to call this "unfair press" it would suck if we lived in a country where only one side was made public.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

    Troy

  32. Troy, I have my reasons for not putting in my real name so I am glad you had a good laugh.
    I will keep my reasons to myself for now. Later in the game I'd be happy to share who I am.
    I think your comments were harsh and premature, that's all.

    I too have been successful in MLM but my experience over the last 15 years has shown me most people are not. We can agree to disagree on that point. You can make statistics say anything you want, just look at the gov't.

    Experience is the key and with all your experience I question that you could really concede that MLM success statistic to be true. However, we all see things through our own eyes, I respect your opinion and respectfully disagree. 🙂

    I just wish you would have waited a few more weeks before writing such a tough critique on Voiparty. Have you spoken to Joe ? Have you tried to get in touch with the company or did you simply pull available information off the site which we all know is not ready to go. Joe makes that clear in all his webinars and is very transparent as to where we are as a company.

    I look for honesty in leadership even more than a track record of success, maybe I am stupid but ethics are more important than the almighty dollar. Joe seems to be an honest guy and so far he has stood the test of time at least with me.

    For now I choose to stay as "John Tucker". Thank you for the opportunity to post and for your attempts to keep companies on the up and up.

    Feel free to join us on our 7pm EST webinars you can find them at voiparty.com under events. You can ask your questions direct to Joe and maybe, just maybe you'll feel different about Voiparty.

    All the best, Troy and thank you for being a watchdog for us!

    If you don't see me back here for a while it is because the time spent refuting what I believe to be unfair press does not pay me. Helping build the Voiparty business does.

    I'm done and again, no hard feelings you are entitled to your opinion, SIR.

    JT.

  33. John,

    Thanks for stopping by and commenting. I do want to ask you a few questions.

    1. Exactly what indisutry inside of the MLM profession are you referring? With 28 years in this great profession, I know tens of thousands of folks who have used MLM for what it was intended to earn supplemental income to provide for their family and have documented their stories. I also know thousands who have earned great full time incomes and have for 15 to 20 years. I even know hundreds who have become very welthy during this same time period.

    It doesn't matter what industry it is, those who work the business as a business make money, those who blow smoke, quit or are not committed to their dreams and understadn the MLM company is a vehicle just like VOIPArty is a vehicle don't make money.

    2. This is not bad press. This is a team who lives and breaths MLM bringing to the surface the same concerns the AG of Florida and the FTC will have. If Joe corrects these early then the company has a chance. Then it is up to the team to build something and the wholesale purchases to carry it forward. Why do you feel solid issues should be seen as bad press. Why not take the positive focus?

    3. Why do you bring up Joe's honesty and integrity? I sure did not make it personal at all. As a matter of fact I was very clear, I beleived the founders were just ignorant to the law, not scammers. WIth your comment I am somewhat concerned.

    4. No where in our report did we question the underlying business strategy, so why would we eat crow. I'm not a nay-sayer at all on the business. VOIP is coming on strong and there is one company already doing what you guys are trying to get going. So there is plenty of room. However the other company has created their compensation correctly.

    By the way, It is not wise to sign Anonymous, when your account is setup as John Tucker. People who sign anonymous, make my laugh… If you can't stand out strong for your beleifs, then I question your conviction.

  34. Vann,

    Vann,

    I could not agree more. Most MLM'ers lose money Very few make money.

    Voiparty is unique and refreshing. I hope Joe addresses these concerns as this bad press is
    unfounded and right now pure conjecture.

    As someone who has had direct contact with Joe Machado, I can attest to his honesty and
    integrity. Many non-believers will become believers soon enough. Watch us terminate calls and
    watch us become a big telecom provider and all nay-sayers can politely eat crow.

    For now,
    Anonymous

  35. Vann,

    Thank you for stopping by to question what I wrote. I always love being called out – right or wrong on my part.

    I do stand by my statement which you did quote correctly – “No MLM company requires monthly autoship to be part of the company”. NO MLM at lead not legitimate ones charge a monthly fee to join, or to earn personal commissions as a distributor. This does valadate one of my concerns, which is the fact most distributors do not fully understand the policies and procedures they sign and agree to abide by.

    Let's stay with Ceres Living as an example. Here is exactly what their P&Ps state "Becoming an Independent Ceres Living Distributor – There is no fee to become an independent Ceres Living Distributor. You must be a minimum of 18 years of age or the legal age of majority in the state you reside, whichever is higher, and you must be legally capable of entering into a contract.

    I believe we are talking about two different issues. a company can charge up to $99 in most states for a one time for a training or marketing pack. And they can charge an annual renew fee.

    I believe what you are referring is the right to participate in the leadership commissions and bonuses inside of the compensation plans of most MLM companies. Companies are allowed to place specific qualifications at each level for a distributor to earn override commissions past their personal sales.

    Now let's take a look at TraVerus and see what their P&Ps state – "Become an Associate » (Associate fee of $20 and a $40 annual renewal)
    Once you become an Active Associate – by joining our program and paying an Annual fee – you will receive the following benefits:
    * As an Associate of TraVerus you are able to earn commissions on your personal sales.
    * Associates are able to have a personalized TraVerus website for an additional $19.95 per month.

    So again to join any legitimate MLM there is no autoship required to join or earn personal commissions.

    Now let's look at part two of your concern, my using the $2500.00 per year average income. You are completely correct I was off on my numbers. The true figure should have been $2053.00 on average per distributor. I can provide published facts if need be, and can for the last four or five years. However, I am always open to sharing conflicting facts. If you can provide facts which come from a respected but disputing organization I am willing to publish those.

    Your facts about MLM is off. The stats show that 2.3 people are recruit by each distributor, which is one reason the companies have moved to binary compensation plans. I can provide documented figures, and again I will gladly publish legitimate facts you produce opposing mine. I have read and reread your statement and using a simple math, your statement does not hold water. Here is what I mean…

    Network Marketing as we know it today is a 65 year old industry. In 2007 in the USA alone there were around 15 million reps. 12% worked their business less than 1 hour a week, 31% worked their business 1 – 4 hours a week, 23% worked their business 5 – 9 hours a week, 22% worked their business 10 – 19 hours a week and 12% worked their business over 20 hours a week. Each of these groups of people were paid according to the effort put into their business.

    Now, let's look at the dollar amount. In 2007 $30.8 billion was sold in the USA alone through MLM companies. Take the $30.8 billion divide it by 15 million reps and you get $2053.33. Now some folks made more and some made less, it all depends on what they put into their business. If we add in the tax savings it may be more than that.

    I do agree with you that the VOIParty was very clear the party had not really opened. However, the law does not care about what VOIParty or any other company states. the law is very clear what steps a company must take to launch with an MLM compensation plan or any business opportunity message for that matter.

    To join VOIParty even before the retail stage requires the VIP member to enter the compensation plan by purchasing equipment. And from the sale commissions are paid to the upline in the matrix, before the company has even launched. Which means money is flowing ONLY through recruiting other VIP Members. the law is clear in Florida and at a federal level on this issue.

    And, if we look at your statement above, you are clear the "service provider" pays not a retail person. Which means there is no retail product being sold to anyone outside of the P2P network which are all part of the compensation plan. Again, the law is very clear on this point.

    As for the "ugly think about pyramids" the answer is NO. To be classified as a pyramid when it comes to network marketing is the fact the majority of the income is produced from recruiting not from retail sales or the potential of retails to an end user outside of the compensation plan. A ponzi scheme on the other hand takes the money from the new investors and gives it to the older investors.

    Vann, I am not in any way saying VOIParty founders are crooks or scoundrels. I am saying they do not realize what they are doing when it comes to the compensation plan, and I question the fact Scott Warren would sign off on this type of a program.

    Again, I thank you for coming by, you are a vital part of this community, and if people arelooking to join VOIParty, they should get in contact with you, because I respect how you run your business, even when we come down on different views.

    Thank you my friend for commenting.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

    Troy

  36. Troy,

    I always enjoy reading your reviews, and expect to get good information from them, but I have to respectfully call you out on this one.

    Firstly, there is the issue of a couple of factual errors.

    You stated “No MLM company requires monthly autoship to be part of the company”. I was totally blown away to see that statement coming from you. Many, if not most MLM companies, especially ones who sell 'consumable products', have either an auto ship, or a monthly fee required. For instance, a couple of companies whom you have written about recently:

    Ceres Living – requires an auto ship

    TraVerus aka TeleVerus – requires both an auto ship and monthly service fees.

    You also quoted Direct Selling News as saying “the average MLM distributor earns $2500.00 annually ”, and regardless of who says it, this couldn't be farther from the truth. They can always skew numbers if they want to, and it will make things look better, but I would rather just tell the real numbers.

    The average independent restaurant opened in the US, will close within the first year or so, in debt. And the average recruit to a legitimate MLM, will recruit less than one person, will make little if any sales, and will earn a little over $0 before quitting (which is very often less than it cost him to get started, and which cost could, in an entrepreneurial sense be called an 'investment', but yes I do agree it would not be called an investment by the SEC). I am not talking about your personal experience or mine, I am talking about statistical averages, real ones. Obviously someone has to work and persist if they are to make money, and the average person is unfortunately in the 80% of people who just give up and quit. And if it were true that the average MLM recruit makes $2500 per year, all we would have to do is sign up with every legitimate new MLM that comes down the pike and we would be assured a really good living, but I'm not doing that, and I doubt you are either.

    Another point that needs to be addressed is that VoiParty stated that the retail phase has not yet begun. The current phase is simply building the peer to peer network to service the telecom industry, which does not require agents to sell anything to the telecom companies, because the income generating traffic is routed to the call terminals by the VoiParty servers. And this is not just for calls placed by VoiParty agents, but all kinds of telecom traffic, local, long distance, cellular, and land line, for the whole US and Puerto Rico.

    Now as for being an illegal pyramid. We see above that the money is not being generated by the agents own call traffic (although that counts too), but from the telecom companies, who all must have interexchange connections to terminate calls to other companies. So people who don't know anything about VoiParty make calls to friends who use other phone companies, and so their service provider must pay an interexchange connection fee (and since they use 'least cost routing' standards, they will likely use VoiParty wherever it is available, because of the cost savings to the provider). Isn't the ugly thing about illegal pyramids that they take money from 'recruits' at the bottom of the ladder, who are losing money, and give it to people at the top who are making their money off of the victims? Isn't it clear that isn't going to happen here?

    I encourage you to talk at length with Joe, and I think you will see there is much more here than you saw at first.

    Respectfully,

    Vann

  37. Baystay,

    First let me say thank you for stopping by.

    I fully understand VOIParty and the concept of P2P marketing.

    And if you listen to what I stated and wrote, you will realize very quickly I am not questioning the technology or the vision of moving wholesale bandwidth and paying people for the move.

    However, I do understand the current laws on the books in Florida and at a federal level, which is my concerns.

    A great business plan can go wrong when they add a force matrix or any other multi-tiered compensation plan to it. As a matter of fact I can show thousands of affiliate companies which do great. However, if they pay past two levels they would fall in the scam alerts.

    Based on the limited information available, everyone is part of the compensation plan, and without customers who just use the service and are not part of the compensation it is classified as a pyramid in 50 states and at the federal level.

    Hope this clears up where I stand.

    Living An Epic Adventure,

    Troy

  38. You know Troy, although this deal definitely does look like a pyramid scheme that will go no where, the fact that everyone and their brother is trying to get in on the communications bandwagon tells me that there is a boatload of money to be made in telecom/wireless.

    It's nice to know that you are spotlighting the good AND the bad so as to protect us in the field.

    Thanks pal.

    JB

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