MLM Wireless News: Randy Jeffers Founder of Liberty International Talks To MLM Helpdesk About WOW Mobile

Randy Jeffers and his corporate attorney Jeff Bakerink, reached out today and talked with me for over an hour. I did my best to cover every question asked over the last few days regarding the future of WOW Mobile and Liberty International.

Here is the summary of our conversation:

1. Liberty International .vs T-Mobile: According to Jeff Bakerink, he is in the discovery stages, and interviewing some top telecommunication attorneys. Shortly Liberty International will hire a law firm, and the complaint will be filed.

2. Does Liberty International Really Owe Money to T-Mobile: Randy Jeffers made it clear that Liberty International’s position is “NO Money is Owed.” When Liberty did an internal audit of the master T-Mobile bill, it was uncovered Liberty had been charged over $1 million dollars in overcharges in International Long Distance charges. When this was brought to T-Mobile’s attention, the relationship went south. Each day Liberty International was strung along. Until a few weeks ago, when Liberty International pulled the plug, and decided to file a civil complaint.

3. Frozen Merchant Accounts: Randy Jeffers was very open, as he was in Orlando last weekend with the Liberty International Field Force. Due to legitimate and fraudulent chargebacks, Liberty’s merchant processor has frozen funds. Jeff Bakerink made it very clear Liberty is reviewing each chargeback, and any found to be unwarranted, he will be passing on to authorities for criminal investigation, as well as the possibility of filing civil fraud charges.

4. Has Liberty International Laid Off Any Employees: Randy Jeffers told me they did lay off some employees, for several reasons. The main one being, with the new direction the company is moving, there will not be a need for as many employees. “We are out of the business of warehousing and shipping phones, so we do not need as many employees.”

5. Is Randy Jeffers Personally Covering Commissions Checks: Randy stated he has been covering the commission checks, and will continue to cover them in the short term. I asked Randy if he could give me an amount he is willing to cover, and he respectfully declined.

6. Is there A New Entity Taking Over Liberty International: Randy Jeffers and Jeff Bakerink were very clear, there is NO new entity taking over Liberty International. However they have made some strategic moves to protect the business opportunity for the Liberty International distributors as the old Liberty International aka WOW Mobile works its way through litigation with T-Mobile and the Chargeback Issues!

7. Is Liberty International Affiliated With Sprint, AT&T, Verizon or T-Mobile: Jeff Bakerink and Randy Jeffers both made it loud and clear, Liberty International Does Not have any type of affiliation with any of the four Tier 1 Wireless Carriers. “We do offer a PCS Platform, and will be adding additional wireless platforms in the near future. But again we are not affiliated or offering Sprint PCS services.

If I missed any questions please feel free to ask them below and I will get the answers and publish them.

Living An Epic Adventure,


Spread The News!

81 thoughts on “MLM Wireless News: Randy Jeffers Founder of Liberty International Talks To MLM Helpdesk About WOW Mobile”




    November 18, 2010


    1001 SW 5th Ave #700

    Portland, OR 97204

    (503) 326-1500

    Creditor Help Page

    A creditor in a bankruptcy case is a person or entity to whom the debtor (the person or entity that filed for bankruptcy) owes money or who claims to be owed money by the debtor. If you have received a notice from the court about a particular bankruptcy case, it means that the debtor has listed you in the debtor's bankruptcy case as someone to whom the debtor owes money or might owe money.

    Because of the Automatic Stay you are not allowed to begin or continue any efforts to collect the debt owed to you by the person or entity who has filed bankruptcy, and you should contact an attorney for advice on how to proceed.

    If you believe the debtor is hiding money or property or is being untruthful in a bankruptcy case, call or write the U.S. Trustee (503-326-4000 for Portland cases; 541-465-6330 for Eugene cases) or the case trustee. You can also send an email to the U.S. Trustee's

    Fraud Hotline at

    Guidelines for using the hotline are posted at the U.S. Trustee's web site. If you have questions about what is happening in a particular bankruptcy case, call the case trustee.

  2. Liberty International did file bankruptcy chapter 7 to be exact and the case No #10-65095. Randy Jeffers filed it on or about August 20, 2010 and it listed no "Assets". He listed T-Mobile as being the only creditor. He didn't list the millions of dollars that were collected by Liberty International on behalf of himself. He is trying to hide behind this bankruptcy but its unfortunate Randy Jeffers have gone to far this time and have chosen to mess with the wrong or should I announce the right Business People that will not allow him to get away with fraud, misrepresentation, theft by deception, making false statements, false advertisement, perjury, Ponzi Scam, amongst many other serious legal criminal violations.

    If you were a Representative of Liberty International and haven't recovered your refund nor received the product and or services that was promised. Please write to: Mr. Ron Stacka; Chapter 7 Trustee, P.O. Box 10990, Eugene, OR 97440 His number is 541-344-0695. You will need to put in writing the amount that Randy Jeffers stole from you and if you have the dates that would be helpful. The more information that you can provide the better chance you will have in possibly recovering your monies.

    Also send a copy of that same letter and all attachments to: U.S.District Attorney: Becky Kamitsuka; 405 East 8th Avenue Suite 1100; Eugene, OR 97401 her number is (541) 465-6471 last but not least you want to send the same exact copy to Randy Jeffers Attorney David Jacobson; 715 Commercial St N. East; Salem, OR 97301

    Remember you are considered a "CREDITOR" and make sure that you make that known to the Trustee, U.S. District Attorney & Randy Jeffers Attorney. Don't forget to include your contact information as this is important. Randy Jeffers had the nerve to state in his bankruptcy that Liberty International didn't have any assets. This is a real BIG WOW!!!!!!!!!!

    These are the procedures in order for us to recover our monies. I already mailed off my declaration and evidence and all of my clients proof(more than 22) along with some very incriminating information to assist any and all appropriate authorities to cease and decease this bankruptcy.

    When I joined Liberty International I never thought that I would have to be utilizing my legal and professional knowledge against this same entity. I am very upset and anger as I join many clients to this organization so I have an obligation to make 100% sure that we are made whole. None of us received the phone, products nor services. I am planning to make a trip(more than 1100 miles away) within the next few days to meet with the U.S. Attorney, Trustee and other legal officials.

    I'm wishing each of you the best of luck in recovering your monies and I will post any updates according to the progress.

    Don't wait do it today as this bankruptcy is still opened!!!! You can just write a simple letter just notify the parties that I mention above. Don't wait!!!!

    Good Luck!!

    A Professional Business Person

    Who Truly Care about People!!!!

  3. This industry is full of fraud and it makes the legitimate MLM companies all look bad and put us all on the defensive. Wow Mobile was an MLM scam of epic proportions. Mr. Jeffers and his Wow bankruptcy case is despicable. So many people lost money, time, hope, and dreams.

    Mr. Jeffers should be ashamed of himself. This is an MLM fraud of epic proportions.

    History does repeat itself in MLM! Folks, please do your due diligence before joining anything, and research the owner thoroughly.

  4. When and where is the next seminar where Randy Jeffers, John Shaw, Jeff Bakerink or JR Reed will be speaking?

  5. its been about 2 months since I mailed liberty in oregon for my refund,,,still no responce!!!!

    did anybody ever get there refund?

  6. I don't think anyone has a problem waiting..but it's paying and waiting is the problem. If this is a legitimate business then Randy shouldn't take anymore money from his reps that are wanting to sell WOW mobile. We can all sit and wait and once everything is up and running the way it's suppose to be then we can pay, until then it's nothing but hype and taking advantage of people. Wht is he paying out of his pocket when people are paying into his business. Where is that money?

  7. i was in the same boat was getting ready to pay a third time and decided to stop my auto ship..just think of the 1000's of reps that are paying and not realizing it ..hell of a scam to get away with

  8. maybe he should stop charging people until he gets his act do you continue selling to people a product that you can't produce. If he wants people to join his netwok then test it out, maker sure it works before you take peoples money…awwww but it's such a big project LMAO…..and pissed off

  9. that was funny Tim and you are so right you learn absolutely nothing on those calls it's just a bunch of hype and bu….s…








  11. Ok, I finally found 2 leaders that are still with us. Thank God. Now I have someone to call when I need help right away and can't wait for a response here. Nice to know I have someone to do 3 way calls with when needed now. I got the phone number and email address for the one and have just a email address for the other. I called the one and talked to him and he said that Randy did hire a couple of people to help the girl who's handling the refunds and we should all get our refunds back within the next few weeks. He said that if we emailed about the refund that that should be enough but it's best to also mail Liberty with a refund request so I'm going to print up one of the emails I sent that has the copy and paste of my receipts from my back office to them.

    Here's the address

    Liberty International

    PO Box 438,

    Woodburn, OR 97071

  12. I emailed John Shaw at Liberty about the refunds and about how I heard that Liberty is going bankrupty. Here's the response I got from the email.

    Liberty International, Inc has ceased all operations and is not accepting any new orders or signups. Anyone that has an ongoing issue with respect to a product order or refund request, can contact Liberty International at PO Box 438, Woodburn, OR 97071

    All Liberty International Independent Representatives who wish to conduct business with Liberty Freedom Network should go to

    I don't know if this came from an autoresponder that automatically sends this out to anyone who emails him or if he just copied and pasted a generic response.

  13. Troy

    I got a email saying that Liberty is going bankrupt. On a team site it said that if they go chapter 11 then we wont get refunds at all.

    Do you know anything about this???? We're all in the dark here and really need some answers and Liberty is not answering anyone's emails that I know of.

  14. So I see Liberty International is no more and it's being changed to Liberty Freedom Network. At least the website looks better!

    Sorry to all the WOW reps. It looks like Randy is trying to take more of the focus off of wireless (which is what recruited all of you) and put it on other things.

  15. Randy where is Wowtv. Two saturday calls ago you said there would be a big announcement the day after the 4th.

    But then you are always full of a lot of promises and no deliveries!!!!!!!

    Maybe you need to work on wowtv another 2 years. Maybe by that time you will have another awful website site to promote it with.

    Maybe June 1 of 2012 is a better launch date.

    Randy Jeffers is an absolute incompetent!!!!!!!!!!

    I guess I was as big of a fool listening to you as you are. At least I am not a liar!!!!!!

  16. Curious,

    You ask a great question. In an upcoming series I am going to talk about what to look for in companies and why they do what they do when it comes to private domains.

    What I have seen lately, is when companies are in the middle of, or anticipate some form of legal action. Or they have left one company to launch another, they are registering domains under privacy.

    Seems, if this is the case, they must realize they are doing something unethical or at the very least questionable.

  17. The bottom line is Randy Jeffers is a liar. I have been hearing for months that Sprint, ATT and Verizon would be available in just days.

  18. This the funniest and most accurate post yet..

    Neil says:

    June 30, 2010 at 12:14 am

    My interpretation of a Liberty International “Saturday Training Call”…

    John Shaw (in his uber cheezy voice):

    Ladies and gentleman, welcome to the LLLLL-Liberty International training call. My name is John Shaw and I’m proud to introduce the founder, the CEO, the most beautiful, kind, loving and caring man I’ve ever met. Nay, the fairest soul that has graced the face of the earth, whose warm smile and gentle eyes make the world go round…. Mr. Randy Jeffers!

    Randy Jeffers:

    Well thanks John and what at AMAZING week it’s been. I’m sitting here with Jeff Bakerink and, oh boy, what an AMAZING day we’ve had… what an AMAZING week… an AMAZING month, really… wouldn’t you say so Jeff?

    Jeff Bakerink:

    Oh yes, Randy. Blah blah blah, I’m a lawyer who likes to talk a lot and say nothing at all.

    Randy Jeffers:

    Thanks Jeff. What an AMAZING time we’ve had together this past week. We’re doing just AMAZING things. We’re pretending to file AMAZING lawsuits. And it’s AMAZING how long we’ve actually fooled everyone that T-Mobile is the problem, when really, we’re the ones who didn’t pay the bill, which forced our carrier to turn off service like they would for any customer who didn’t pay their bill. AMAZING!

    Jeff Bakerink:

    Yes, sir, you’re really sticking it to everyone!

    Randy Jeffers:

    But you know Jeff, I’m a glass half-full kind of guy. That’s just who I am. And God bless T-Mobile for what they did to us. God bless them. They made us into the company we are today. You know, Jeff, the company that will soon be filing bankruptcy in the next 2-3 weeks. God bless ‘em. And God bless our distributors. God bless everyone!

    Now I have an announcement to make. Our new PCS carrier is now activating phones! That’s right, purchase today and you will receive a phone in 6 months, errr, I mean 6 days! It’s just AMAZING.

    Just log on to our website and make your purchase. We designed this website to look like something from the early 1990s just so all our middle-aged distributors could feel right at home. You know, the same distributors we’ve been pulling the wool over these last few months.

    Jeff Bakerink:

    Let me just interrupt to say blah blah blah… I like to interrupt and say nothing at all for 10-15 minutes.

    Randy Jeffers:

    And stay tuned for an announcement about Wow TV in the coming days. I know I said we’d have Wow TV on June 1. Then it was going to be online 10 hours after Liberty Carl received the equipment he needed 3-4 weeks ago. But hey, who actually believes my word anyway, right?

    Jeff Bakerink:

    That’s right, sir! Not least of all me!

    Randy Jeffers:

    Now we’ve got lots of great reps on the call today. Karla Pacheco, are you on the call.


    Karla, are you there? Hello?

    Well I guess, Karla didn’t make it.

    Karla Sanchez: (in a Jennifer Coolidge from Legally Blonde voice)

    Sorry Randy, my phone was on mute (i.e. I wasn’t listening to a word you were saying). Oh I love Liberty. I love Wow. Blah blah blah, I like to talk longer than even the lawyer dude.

    Randy Jeffers:

    Thanks Karla. AMAZING words! Truly AMAZING! Mike Storms, are you on the call?



    Well I guess we lost Mike.

    Mike Storms:

    Wait, I’m here Randy. And let me just say that I echo the words of Mr. John Shaw. You are the rarest gem, Randy. The tallest mountain. The deepest sea. Blah blah blah, kiss butt comments for 15 minutes.

    Randy Jeffers:

    Thanks Mike. Well next week…

    Jeff Bakerink:

    And let me just add, Randy, blah blah blah… more interruptions with no point to them.

    Randy Jeffers:

    Thanks Jeff. What an AMAZING week. An AMAZING year, really. And so, John, take it away.

    John Shaw:

    Thank you, Mr. Jeffers, for your insight and encouragement today. You are our fearless leader. And though no one in Liberty, including myself, hasn’t a clue what the hell you’re doing, we love you just the same.

    And so with that, ladies and gentlemen, I wish you great prospecting and God bless.

  19. Question that I don't think has been answered yet: Why is the domain private? Why can't we see who the owner of it is?

  20. I would really love to know how you find out about that call. I would have loved to get in on it. What list are you on????? I did hear the song you where talking about but didn't see anything about the call.

    I quess they know we're tired of the hype and lies so now their going to sing to us????

  21. ROFLM(butt)O

    Almost the entire state of florida is notified with information important to our success (via e-mail) by a reps wife. Classic Liberty at its finest, I can see it now….. you tell them, no Randy you tell em, how bout you Mike its your turn anyway, oh heck I'll tell em !!!! Now theres a leader !, "thanks Lori" ….. uhm could you do the conference call saturday too? John and I are working on this song that will be featured in the back office mail July 1st and we will be completely wiped out from that.

    I can't wait to meet all these guys. Good times I'll tell ya, good times.


  22. ,Neil,

    That was on hilarious and on point, dont forget,

    Randy: Well John, It gets better every week. Every week the call gets better and better. I don't know if this can top next weeks call but this was the best call ever. John…

    John: Randy you are absolutely right, Every week it gets better and better. Liberty International pays the most money to the most people in the shortest amount of time (We sure take our sweet time on returning the reps refunds) and please hear my lovely voice on the latest in Liberty mail so I can still have a chance to convenience our vulnerable reps that have been in the trenches to keep enrolling more reps till the company's name is changed to "Liberty Unknown" and we are at the Island WowFindUs! And so with that, ladies and gentlemen, I wish you great prospecting and God bless

  23. Ha, ha, ha! Did you read Neil's interpretation of the Saturday calls? Right on! I wanted to reply to Neil but there was no Reply button at the end of his perfect interpretation!

    Neil, you hit it 100 percent right on! Troy, you can't listen to the phone calls through your computer. The geniuses at WOW don't know how to put a link to a recorded call on the web. You have to call the phone number. Those of us who don't yet have unlimited free minutes have to time it for our weekends or evenings (hoping everyone at least has some free minutes at those times) or else run up our phone bill listening to the — well, read what Neil wrote. How much would you spend to listen to that?

    Good job, Neil!

    Troy, please ask Randy to dig a little deeper into his MLM pockets and pay not only commissions but refunds. At least those who received phones have something they can show folks in order to reel them in and make some money off them. Those of us who have no phone (but DO have a conscience) won't try to recruit just to make money. Isn't that the definition of a pyramid? Making money for duping folks into parting with their money when they get nothing in return. Using the money they kick in to pay the reps up the line? Anyway, Troy, how can Randy justify paying commissions when he's stolen our money and is refusing to return it?

    At least Neil gave us a light-hearted moment. Thanks, Neil!

  24. Contact your local Attorney General and the Better Business Bureau and file complaints!!!!

  25. Hey Neil

    Your post on June 30, 2010 at 12:14 am says it all. You hit it right on the nose. I'm laughing my behind of right now. Maybe we should have you interpret the calls for us and post them here. lol

  26. BTW: they shut down my back office so i can't get to my liberty mail or my INSPIRATIONAL/ MOTOVATIONAL words of wisdom.

    but I'm probably better off.

    Did this happen to anybody else?

    lets all cut the crap and find out how we can all get our money back!!!!

  27. frustrated wow,,,i couldn't agree with you more,,,the same story happened to me exactly,,,its like you were telling my story and I'm sure 100's of other reps to.

    be nice if someone had info on geting our money back?

  28. Neil,

    Thank you for commenting. I was rolling at the way you described the call. I know this is very serious, yet your writing style does bring a little comical relief to this situation.

  29. Thank you for your continued support.

    I may not be able to reach Randy until tomorrow, but I will see if we can work to get more solid answers.

  30. Troy,

    Thousands of people will appreciate any help you can give us on this. I listend to all the Sat calls and any other calls that pop up here and there. Always hype and very little info. I honestly don't want to listen to these calls anymore because I'm tired of the hype. It's sad that I find out what going on from here. I would think that the company would inform the reps as to what's going on and what we should do before you would get any information but it seems that they tell you whats going on while they keep their reps in the dark. I've had the leaders on my team tell me one thing (when we do get info) just to find out the info was wrong. I talked to the guy who runs the site when everything became live on the new pcs service. He had more info then the field. He truly believed that Liberty was going to set up some kind of account with him so reps who where owed money could use their refund to buy the new phone. He was just waiting to Liberty to finalize something so we could do this. I found out via a live call from the last conference in Orlando that Friday that refunds and sales of new phones have to be kept seperate and they are not going to allow reps to use refunds for the new phones. On that call they said we should get our refunds within a week from when we email which I did twice since I was told to do this. Now the merchant accounts are frozen and nobody knows when we will get our refunds. I just hope this company doesn't go out of business before people get their money back. My upline keeps telling me to sign up people and use the money you make to buy the new phone. Sorry, I refuse to sign people us when there is still many problems. I don't want to bring people in knowing they may have problems themselves. I believe that would look bad on me and make people not trust me anymore. I was told to keep my autoship going and when I get the phone they will refund me the money for the service from this day I first paid to the day I got the phone. I kept my autoship because of what I was told. I paid for 3 months service doing this.

    Please help us Troy. You seem to have Libertys ear.

    I'm at the point where I'm about to call my bank about this and also file something with the AG, BBB, etc From what I see on blogs and team sites out there, people are already starting to do this.

    I have gotten to a point where I don't trust Liberty anymore. I have a feeling that once the dust settles with all the problems these different wireless mlm's, I will be joining another company even if it means I have to get a second job for a bit to get the money together to do this.

    I don't take health products. Don't like taking pills or drinking potions. Why would I sell their health products when I don't like taking them myself. In the MLM world you do have to be a product of the product. Why would I sell anything Liberty has right now when they are having so many problems. I don't want to put out anymore money for voip, coupon books or anything else right now when they still owe me for a phone and 3 months service.

  31. My interpretation of a Liberty International "Saturday Training Call"…

    John Shaw (in his uber cheezy voice):

    Ladies and gentleman, welcome to the LLLLL-Liberty International training call. My name is John Shaw and I'm proud to introduce the founder, the CEO, the most beautiful, kind, loving and caring man I've ever met. Nay, the fairest soul that has graced the face of the earth, whose warm smile and gentle eyes make the world go round…. Mr. Randy Jeffers!

    Randy Jeffers:

    Well thanks John and what at AMAZING week it's been. I'm sitting here with Jeff Bakerink and, oh boy, what an AMAZING day we've had… what an AMAZING week… an AMAZING month, really… wouldn't you say so Jeff?

    Jeff Bakerink:

    Oh yes, Randy. Blah blah blah, I'm a lawyer who likes to talk a lot and say nothing at all.

    Randy Jeffers:

    Thanks Jeff. What an AMAZING time we've had together this past week. We're doing just AMAZING things. We're pretending to file AMAZING lawsuits. And it's AMAZING how long we've actually fooled everyone that T-Mobile is the problem, when really, we're the ones who didn't pay the bill, which forced our carrier to turn off service like they would for any customer who didn't pay their bill. AMAZING!

    Jeff Bakerink:

    Yes, sir, you're really sticking it to everyone!

    Randy Jeffers:

    But you know Jeff, I'm a glass half-full kind of guy. That's just who I am. And God bless T-Mobile for what they did to us. God bless them. They made us into the company we are today. You know, Jeff, the company that will soon be filing bankruptcy in the next 2-3 weeks. God bless 'em. And God bless our distributors. God bless everyone!

    Now I have an announcement to make. Our new PCS carrier is now activating phones! That's right, purchase today and you will receive a phone in 6 months, errr, I mean 6 days! It's just AMAZING.

    Just log on to our website and make your purchase. We designed this website to look like something from the early 1990s just so all our middle-aged distributors could feel right at home. You know, the same distributors we've been pulling the wool over these last few months.

    Jeff Bakerink:

    Let me just interrupt to say blah blah blah… I like to interrupt and say nothing at all for 10-15 minutes.

    Randy Jeffers:

    And stay tuned for an announcement about Wow TV in the coming days. I know I said we'd have Wow TV on June 1. Then it was going to be online 10 hours after Liberty Carl received the equipment he needed 3-4 weeks ago. But hey, who actually believes my word anyway, right?

    Jeff Bakerink:

    That's right, sir! Not least of all me!

    Randy Jeffers:

    Now we've got lots of great reps on the call today. Karla Pacheco, are you on the call.


    Karla, are you there? Hello?

    Well I guess, Karla didn't make it.

    Karla Sanchez: (in a Jennifer Coolidge from Legally Blonde voice)

    Sorry Randy, my phone was on mute (i.e. I wasn't listening to a word you were saying). Oh I love Liberty. I love Wow. Blah blah blah, I like to talk longer than even the lawyer dude.

    Randy Jeffers:

    Thanks Karla. AMAZING words! Truly AMAZING! Mike Storms, are you on the call?



    Well I guess we lost Mike.

    Mike Storms:

    Wait, I'm here Randy. And let me just say that I echo the words of Mr. John Shaw. You are the rarest gem, Randy. The tallest mountain. The deepest sea. Blah blah blah, kiss butt comments for 15 minutes.

    Randy Jeffers:

    Thanks Mike. Well next week…

    Jeff Bakerink:

    And let me just add, Randy, blah blah blah… more interruptions with no point to them.

    Randy Jeffers:

    Thanks Jeff. What an AMAZING week. An AMAZING year, really. And so, John, take it away.

    John Shaw:

    Thank you, Mr. Jeffers, for your insight and encouragement today. You are our fearless leader. And though no one in Liberty, including myself, hasn't a clue what the hell you're doing, we love you just the same.

    And so with that, ladies and gentlemen, I wish you great prospecting and God bless.

  32. Frustrated WOW Rep,

    Funny thing, I have done my best to listen to several of the calls, and each time I try, I get a recording telling me the the system is not working at the moment. After a few times I just stopped trying. I'll go back and try again.

    I do trust your judgement, and if you tell me the calls are not very helpful, I believe you.

  33. Troy,

    Since you have access to the LI back office, I'd suggest you listen to the calls. I've listened to virtually all of them (may have missed one or two when I first joined around the end of March), and there is very little information in them. There's a lot of rah rah and hype, but as far as solid information, they're sorely lacking.

    I'd hardly know where to begin with all the questions we've tried to get answered to no avail. I'll give you an example. As my one-month anniversary with the company approached, I was figuring out I wasn't going to have a phone before I was going to be charged for a second month of service. Obviously, I hadn't even received a first month's service, and I didn't want the next month being charged. I e-mailed to find out what to do. No Response. Ever. ( I still haven't received a reply to that e-mail.) I tried calling to find out what to do. The recorded message told me to e-mail. I tried every way I knew how to get in touch with someone to see what I should do. My upline, who joined LI literally five minutes before I did, and therefore didn't know much more about this than I did, said he was just going to stop his autoship to keep from being charged again. I was afraid that would just mess up my whole order, so I was hesitant. Well, he who hesitates is lost. I got charged for a second month of service.

    After raising enough cain, I finally got a call from the company trainer who listened to my problems and then told me I could just stop my autoship in order not to be charged again. Well, that was helpful, after I'd already been charged for two months service and not received anything at all. I begged him to talk to Randy and get him to put someone in charge of communication if he wasn't willing to do it himself. I suggested he might replace some of those rah rah e-mails in the back office with something of substance. Something like: Attention reps who haven't received a phone and are about to be charged for a second month's service. DROP YOUR AUTOSHIP. Duh. You'd think they could communicate something this simple to the whole field force through the company e-mail.

    I could go on and on, but hopefully that at least gives you an idea. Again, if you listen to the calls, I defy you to find ten minutes of information from any call. Don't know what's wrong with the leadership, but they definitely don't want us to know what's going on. That's the only thing I can figure. If you truly want to help us, listen to the calls, put yourself in our shoes, and talk to Randy.


  34. Mick Murray,

    Thank you for taking time to comment. You are correct there is a common thread of a "lack of communication". I hope you can help me out by giving me some insight, so I can better understand.

    I know that on a regular basis, Randy and his team hold conference calls and place them in the back office. Do these calls not have enough information to keep the field informed, or is it that lack of talking to a live person?

    The reason I ask, is because I want to find a way to help the reps, and the more info I get, the better questions and suggestions I can pass on.

    Would a live Q&A call for all reps be a good idea?

  35. I just got a call from to confirm my purchase for the phone. I did talk to the guy who owns the site before I placed my order and told him that I needed the refund to pay for it and I did email him to remind him of this when I placed the order.

    He just called me. If I had the refund I could have gotten my new phone but because I didn't get my refund, I can't. I had to scrap and borrow the money to get started and buy the first phone. No way to scrape and borrow for another phone.

    I'm in tears.

    Mr Jeffers, you say you are for your reps. How about helping us out and giving us a hand. How about at least letting us use some of what you owe us to get the new phone.

    Troy, next time you talk to Randy how about asking him to help us out with this. You have no idea how many people would appreciate it if you did.

  36. Troy:

    I can't help but notice that most of the issues people have with Liberty are directly related to the company's notoriously poor lack of communication.

    I have never EVER seen a company that communicates as poorly as this one. While Randy may be a visionary, what he appears to lack is a solid person running the day to day operations of the company. Website appearance and functionality is from the 1990's and 90%+ of the information the field receives is from the field itself (instead of HQ) and is frequently inconsistent or just plain wrong. Liberty apparantly has a corporate trainer. However, there is no ongoing corporate training.

    Uninformed reps are disgruntled reps. Disgruntled reps file complaints with BBB's and State AGs. Some of them go to competitors and recruit good reps away. They request refunds and chargebacks. Poor communication directly and negatively impacts the company and the remaining reps.

    Troy, If my kids communicated with me the way Liberty does, they would be grounded all summer!

    I hope things improve–I really do. However, I'm getting more disenchanted with each passing day.

    Troy–please tell Mr. Jeffers that he has to improve communication to the field–the quality, frequency and delivery method. I am very confident that I am speaking on behalf of 1000's of Liberty reps.

    I'm using my real name. My IR # is 78710.

    Thanks, Troy.

  37. I agree with you curious, I agree with everyone on their frustrations, I"m one of them. I've been following all the mlm wireless companys covered on this site, I've been reading everything everyone's writing about these companies and I've been listening to all of Troys videos on all these companies. I'm upset that I have to wait for how long?????? for my refund for the phone and 3 months service. One hype after another, I"m tired of hearing it. Instead of thought of the day, how about some updates.


    For some reason something inside tells me to just sit there, don't go anywhere, don't sign anyone up yet. Why don't know, but when I listen to that something inside, I'm always glad I did and when I don't listen, I kick myself in the behind.

    From what I'm reading on this site, it's not a good idea for any rep of any of these companies to anywhere right now. We all must unfortuniitly just wait and see.

    End result, the dust will clear, a couple of these compies will get their act together and fly. That's when we should decide if we will stay with the company we are with or leave.

    Just my opinion

  38. Frustrated WOW Rep,

    I wish I could disagree with you on communication, but if I did I would be lying. I personally believe there can never be to much communication from the top to the bottom or from the bottom to the top. And…

    With the power behind the new Smart Phones, it is easy to do a short video update and post it from anywhere in the world. But…

    I also know attorney's will disagree with me 100%. They tell their clients to say as little as possible, we see this all the time. In the case of the MLM Wireless Wars, I have some CEOs and Founders who talk directly to me, asking me at times to keep some things off the record, while at other times allowing me to post. However, I also have Founders and CEOs who will not talk to me without their attorney's and recording the calls.

    Regardless, of where anyone stands on communication, I believe Starbucks should be the example used by all companies. They embrace their critics, shareholders, and most of all their customers. They do not fight the conversation on the net, they embrace it, and in most cases end up taking control of it, by being authentic and transparent. If more companies would take this high road and reach out to those with questions and concerns, then we would not be seeing all this crap going on right now.

    You do hit the nail on the head. When the corporate office is not communicating, or is not communicating what field leaders believe their downline needs or wants to hear, they will make up their own conversation aka HYPE to keep the field relaxed and motivated. This in and of itself can backfire and has over and over in the MLM Wireless niche. Field leaders say one thing, something else happens, and now they have also lost credibility with their teams, and before long, not only is the company losing ground, the field leader is no longer trusted.

    In a few cases, we have seen foeld leaders leave to form a "better" company, and in the end they find themselves in the same position as their former company, except now they know what the fire feels like.

    I will reach out to Randy this week and we will talk specifically about the communication. I'll see if at the very least, Jeff Bakerink, Liberty's attorney, can put out some official statements on behalf of his client to the field.

  39. PRMobile,

    First let me say thank you for the kind words. This is a crazy situation and so many issues come into play. Here are a few thoughts, although I am sure there are many more to consider.

    a. Who knows how long commissions could be paid out of Randy's pocket. I am sure this ia a bridge financing situation, where once the new entity is up and running, with new processor we will see commissions start to flow through the regular channels again. At that time the company may pay back Randy his money, or he will show it as paided in capital.

    b. Merchant Processor's don't look at how many financial resources the company owner has. They look at thier personal reputation, the federal credit card laws, crimes covering credit card fraud, and their own mathematical algorithms surrounding credit fraud. When a company hits ant of the security triggers then they cut them off. So, now that Liberty International has been shutdown by the credit card processor, and chargebacks have started coming in, there is no way to know for sure who is entitled to a refund or not. Several items will need to take place before Liberty could process refunds, the way I see it.

    c. If the person has already chargedback the specific amount for the sim, phone and/or services, then until the chargeback is withdrawn, won, or lost, Liberty cannot pay a refund.
    d. If a refund is requested Liberty will have to make sure there is not a current chageback.
    e. Is the refund legit.
    f. Does Liberty refund the amount in question, and at the same time chargeback the commissions earned by all upline parties?
    g. Does Liberty refund the money and charge T-Mobile in their civil complaint for all the refunds granted?

    I do not see this as cut and dry as it seems on the surface.

    2. Many folks are confused over the PCS Platform. Sprint is the Tier 1 PCS Carrier in this nation. However, Liberty does not have ANY agreement with Sprint. Their PCS Agreement is through, one of the other wholesale aka MVNO carriers who buy huge amounts of wholesale text, talk, and data from Sprint. Lightyear is a PCS Platform, SouthernLink is a PCS Platform, and there are several others. I do nto know which one of these, Tier 2 PCS carriers Liberty has contracted with, but I do no Sprint is not in the picture.

    If Liberty were to get in hot water, then Sprint would NOT turn off the service. Instead, they would apply pressure to the MVNO, who in turn would use the agreement with Liberty to fix the issue. If Sprint was not satisfied things were corrected, they could file a lawsuit against Liberty, and the reps would not have their service turned off. However, if the MVNO decided the agreement with Liberty was in "breach" then service might be terminated. However, since it is a pre-paid service, the reps should have a 30-day period before they were effected. And from reviewing MVNO's most of them would go after the reps to make sure the phones stayed on.

    3. The situation between Zoom reps (former WOW reps) and current WOW Reps, sadly is a normal situation. Although, it is not an approved business building method, it is normal. And when you get right down to the basic human emotions of frustration, anger, loss of trust, betrayal and excitement, you realize any one of us, could easily fall into this same trap.

    When we have been hurt, angered, lost trust in our leaders, and feel betrayed, we want to shout it from the mountain tops and save all the people we feel might not know what has happened.

    You are 100% correct in holding meetings. I have seen this happen many times. Sometimes there is a fine line between what is acceptable and what is not.

    If WOW reps have finally lost trust and faith in the company, then it is their RIGHT to seek out others to fine a more suitable company. I did this personally after 15 years with one company.

    You are 100% correct to voice your concerns, opinions, and insights. I do know, the new entity is not to be launched for a few more days, and this may be the reason for the delay. Personally, I have told people online and offline, they need to set a D-Day in the sand. It may be July 4th, July 15th, or August 1st. But, whatever date is set, the reps needs do figure out what they want to do. If they are going to leave WOW aka Liberty, then instead of jumping into a new company, they need to do their own research, and make sure they are not jumping from the frying pan, into the fire.

    Again, you bring forth some great concerns, questions and insight.

  40. Troy,

    First of all thank you for getting a great interview with Mr. Jeffers. Long awaited for sure. Several things come to mind as a former WOW rep. First, this whole processor thing is crazy to me Randy is a man with financial means and all these people who paid for phones and sim cards and put there life into this company have nothing. If Randy is dipping into his pocket to pay commisions(who know's how long that will last), why can't he pay back the people who have been wronged. Second, I hear about a PCS carrier but its not Sprint, who is the carrier? If its not one of the 4 major carriers here in the US who is the provider? (Boost, mobile?) Thirdly, I am a rep for Zoom now I personally do not recruit WOW reps if its happening its wrong, I don't know of it personally but I will say this; just because WOW does a meeting in Orlando does not mean we are not allowed to. I still have friends who are WOW reps and if they know my number but I will not ask them to come its not right. I have offered my hand and thats all. WOW mobile mall still does not have Hero's in stock, still not activating phones. When is enough, enough. Correct me if I have wrong information just voicing my opinion. Again thank you, Troy.

  41. Merchant account frozen??? Now we can't get our money back?????? Oh, this is great. This is the first I'm hearing about this. I did talk to someone last week via the online chat in the back office and they said the amount of people asking for refunds is the cause of the delay.

    No refund, and they want us to put more money out for new phones????

    This takes the cake. I'm sure glad I didn't sign anyone up yet. As far as the health product, I got into Herbalife and a couple other health company just to find that I'm not into pills and potions. Why would I even think of selling the health products when I hate taking them myself which is why Herbalife, etc didn't work for me.

    I'm not into party plans either.

  42. The opportunity is bigger? Are you serious?

    You're thousands of reps who were on the service got their service shut off.

    Your company had their merchant account frozen.

    Your service is now $10 more a month than it was before.


    How is that a better opportunity?

  43. Troy,

    Thanks for keeping the conversation going. For my two cents worth:

    From day one of my entries here I've said that Randy is failing miserably in communicating to his field force. One of the commenters here has noted that they've sent numerous e-mails and made numerous attempts to get answers and they have yet to receive a reply. This is a serious lack of communication. I've found that it takes around 2 weeks to get a simple reply to an e-mail. (And they don't all get a response.)

    I should have seen the writing on the wall the first big "hype meeting" I attended. I joined LI in late March, so I'd say this was around mid April. We were told that there was going to be this huge announcement. Dont' miss it! It will blow your mind. Be on this call. Bring everyone you know. This is bigger than anything you've ever seen in MLM, blah, blah, blah. Well, our little group met, brought pizza and sodas and were really excited. The appointed time for the meeting came, the webinar began….. and there was no announcement. Not a word about anything big and exciting. More hype about how WOW is a trend setter and things are going to be so great. Hype, hype, blah, blah, hype, blah.

    Now, obviously somewhere along the line an agreement wasn't ready to be signed. A

    T wasn't crossed or an I wasn't dotted and they had to put off the big announcement. It happens. Not a big deal. Unless you're idiotic enough to think that the troops aren't out there hanging on every word and getting thoroughly disgusted with each word of fluff and hype they hear. Throughout the whole call, there was never a mention of the reason for the call or a reassuring word that the "Big News" was still going to happen, there had just been a bump in the road and once everything was in place we'd get the word. Not a single word.

    This was a real clue and I should have known it was not a truly professional company I was dealing with. Unfortunately, I had already paid my money, ordered my phone and my service and was innocently waiting for LI to honor their end of the bargain. Little did I know what we were in for. From all I've heard, it sounds like T-Mobile really screwed LI over. (I've only heard one side of the story, though.) But regardless of what was going on behind the scenes, any professionally run company would have made serious efforts to communcate as much as it was legally feasible to do without hurting their negotiations behind the scenes. All we get in the LI e-mail is idiotic and supposedly motivational words from someone's book.

    We're constantly told to watch our e-mail (which I check a minimum of 3 times a day) and yet nothing of substance is ever there. The closest thing to information is the recorded phone calls that are always 98 percent fluff and hype. When WOW TV anywere was first announced, it was supposedly going to launch on June 1. Well, June 1 came and went. No TV. No news. Motivational e-mails and fluff. We have yet to receive a true announcement of when it will launch. We recently received e-mails in our personal e-mail from Carla that basically said July 1 WOW TV should be ready to launch. Again, nothing from official channels. Then this latest call, they mentioned that "Liberty Carl" says it should launch in "about ten days" but Randy isn't promising anything, but July 5 might be a big day. Why was it the very end of June before we got a "hint" from Randy himself??

    What is the problem with this guy? Does he not know how important this potential opportunity is to most of us? Many of us don't have big bank accounts or six figure incomes. We saw something that sounded like a great opportunity and we put our trust in a man and a company that have failed us miserably. I know all the reasons people give that we should be selling the vitamins, potions, lotions, etc., but the bottom line is, that's not the opportunity we were approached with, and that's not the opportunity we set our sights on. I might be able to make money picking up cans in the ditches by the road, too, but that's not what I intend to do.

    Troy, I beg you to address this lack of communication with Randy. Apparently you have his ear and he has yours. He still seems clueless as to why people are so frustrated and upset. Where's our refund money? When can we expect it? How long will they take to answer our requests for refund? Hello? Is anybody home? Help us, Troy!


  44. Unanswered Questions,

    Once again you have made some valid points. A few thoughts of my own,
    1. On points 1 through 4, I fully understand where you are coming from, and could see myself felling the same exact way if I were on the distributor end of this situation.

    2. I agree 100% most if all reps did not fully understand the way Liberty and T-Mobile were connected through any agreement. However, if T-Mobile was in full agremeent with how Liberty was to market their co-branded service, then T-Mobile must be held as accountable as everyone else in the food chain.

    3. If Liberty/WOW reps have lost trust in the leadership, and the leaderships ability to perform, then it is time they cut bait and find a new fishing hole. However, if they feel, Randy and team have done their best, then keep fishing for a couple of weeks to see how things turn out.

    4. As for "leaving one class out" I agree with you. No Class should be left out. I just want to make sure folks get solid legal counsel on how to get things started. Since I am not an attorney, don't play one on TV, I try to lead folks to someone I trust, to help them out on that end. All I know is if you start at the very top, then you will not miss anyone.

    5. There is no doubt most folks would nto get involved if a company can't provide what they advertise. However, do you really feel this was done on purpose? Even with what may be a strange agreement between Liberty and T-Mobile, Up until just a week or so ago, I truly believe Liberty thought, this would be worked out. Since I am not part of their team, I could be wrong.

    6. Put the way you did with all the changes and T-Mobile situlation, I agree, I think most folks would have held off to see what would happen.

  45. To counter your question, Troy,…

    Had I known that 1. Jeffers had no proper contract set up with T-mobile, 2. All people in Wow were actually on his business account and not their own accounts, 3.. The phones, in fact, were not available (but obviously the reps had no knowledge or control over this) , and 4. the service was also unavailablle due to failure to perform on Jeffers part (again, reps had no knowledge or control over this), I would have neither joined, nor made amy attempt to sell the Emperor's New Phones and phone service. The ONLY person at fault here, is Jeffers and those of his cronies who knew what was really happening, yet, neglected to inform the reps, and, in fact, instigated more sales based on what they knew were untruths.

    In addition, Liberty cut commissions in late January with their "Project Velocity" crap, which cut commissions by 75% yet cut almost nothing from the administration's take.

    Considering the reps had neither knowledge nor control over any of the issues we are now faced with, and considering that a huge number of people have already lost a lot of money, not MADE money, it would appear that Mr. Jeffers had committed fraud by omission of vital information in the promotion of the program.

    "Otherwise, it is not fair to leave one class out of the responsibility factor. You would not have gotten involved with WOW/Liberty if someone had not brought the business to your attention. "

    I/We would not have gotten involved with Wow/Liberty if someone had told us the truth about the set-up with T-mobile, and that the overpriced phones were not really available, or that the comp plan was about to be dropped by 75%.

    Those are all red flags, and I believe, most thinking people would have held off, had the truth about the T-mobile issue been common knowledge,..but, we weren't even supposed to know who the carrier was before joining,…go figure.

  46. Quit your whining!…you came here to make money…the opportunity is now bigger…don't you want free?

    Liberty have the biggest payout, new PCS Carrier and WowTVanywhere at the door step

    This is a MLM Company not a Cell Phone store.

    Folks get back on the horse and ride !

    You only loose when you quit…or start from scratch elsewhere

    Long term this is a goldmine!

  47. Isabel,

    You bring uop a valid point. However, if we take what you wrote and keep it directly connected with just Liberty, then would you agree or disagree, that each upline member should also be chargedback for the commissions they earned, and that money should be used also to pay refunds?

    The way, I see it, with the chargebacks, the breach of contract between Liberty and T-Mobile (by one or both of them), and the fact the majority of the cash brought in, goes back out to the field, I feel that if we take T-Mobile out of the picture, then Liberty should start taking back commissions, like PrePaid Legal and Primierca, to help offset the refunds.

    Otherwise, it is not fair to leave one class out of the responsibility factor. You would not have gotten involved with WOW/Liberty if someone had not brought the business to your attention.

    If, I am wrong, feel free to correct me.

    I love your comment, and I just want to make sure we all realize many people made money, not just Liberty.

  48. Mr. Woods,

    It is always great to hear from you. Let's take a look at the points you bring up.

    1. I never said it "would not work." I did say, I was concerned, if Liberty is vitorous in their litigation against T-Mobile, the a judge would dismis the class action against Liberty, based on the fact T-Mobile will have been found at fault.

    Even though Liberty is the middle tier between T-Mobile and the distributors, and may very well also be a guilty party in a court of law. If T-Mobile who is the ultimate controler in this situation is found to have with held phones, sims and service, and each day they were telling Liberty "We are almost ready to turn you back on", then they will be held responsibile in a court of law.

    You are right, "on the surface it does sound like fruad" if you leave T-Mobile out of the equation. However, WOW doesn't own a platform, never pretended to own a platform, nor ever shipped a phone with their name on the hardware. T-Mobile was on all the MyGoogles, and no name at all was on the latest phone I received.

    At no time am I saying Liberty is in the clear. However if you or anyone desires to litigate, you must start at the top down, not the middle, where you could waste good hard cash.

    2. We already know distributors are pissed off. Hence the reaosn they have voiced their frustration here in the community. I believe if a deal could be reached between T-Mobile and Liberty, inside or outside of a courtroom it would be best for distributors. I also know, distributors can, if they still want to use the phone can go to wal-mart and buy a cheap sim card. Or deal directly with T-Mobile to keep their number. For some getting an unlock code may also be a way to continue using the phone, or at least selling it to someone who can use it.

    And as I have said for months, I worry the Tier 1 carriers can change the rules at any time, and that does concern me for the distributors.

    3. First of all I do not remember ever using the words "Mr. Jeffers is smart or professional." that is a subjective statement and I do my best not to make many of those. I have said Randy loves his distributors and seem to have a knack for falling on his feet.

    As for your statement. Unless you or someone else can show me a charge on your credit card, where you went to and ordered the phones, your statement may not be as correct as it seems on the surface. If you or anyone else has done exaclt that, gone to the site, placed and order, and had your card charged, I would question your statement. With the merchant account frozen, I strongly doubt any charge will take place.

    4. I can tell you have not studied or do not have the inside information on WOW TV. Until we can be on the same page, I would rather not debate your statement. I can tell you WOW TV, is not anything you currently see on a Wireless Phone. It does include a wireless application, but that is a small piece of the whole platform.

    5. You just validated my statement. Randy Jeffers was never personally found guilty of anything. I have never said, (and I have posted just about ALL the live links to all court cases pertaining to Destiny on this site), that Destiny did not pay any fines in the civil complaints against it. Nor did I ever state they did not change their compensation plan. Paying fines to settle a civil case is very common. As a matter of fact we see this happen on a regular basis with many fortune 100 companies. As a matter this very issue has happened to Wal-Mart, Microsoft, Intel, and even Twitter, alhough twitter got off with a hand slap. In our niche, we have seen Amway, YTB, FHTM, ACN, Herbalife, Primerica and others pay fines to settle civil issues brought up about their marketing and compensation plans over the years. By the way "accused" and convicted are still two different things. Efusjon just did the same thing. Settling and agreeig to a settlement after being accused, is not the samething as admitting guilt or being found guilty.

    You raise some great points for people to investigate. And if they care to review it, they can go back and read each post we have done here and follow the links. Could there be a track record? However, when you look at the 10 years of no issues, compared to the last 90 to 120 days, when the company really started pushing wireless, I do not see a connection. As a matter of fact, I have yet to find any company in wireless who has not had some trype of major issue along the way.

  49. Hello Troy

    Questions for you.

    1. Your saying to Steve in your last post to him that sueing Liberty/WoW mobile wouldn't work for him? Wasn't it Liberty/WoW Mobile that hand the phones in their pocession? Aren't they the ones that charged $249.99 for and phone plus the $27.00 extra to ship the darn thing. Hows this related to what T-Mobile has done, isn't T-mobile only reliable for the air minute or service that they supplied to Liberty's and WOWs REPS. T-Mobile never sent us phones nor my team, they all came for Liberty Warehouse po box 438 woodburn oregon. SO it should be Liberty that needs to pay this back. So why not file a compliant with the State Attorney General. It sounds like fraud to me.

    2. Now don't you think that the GSM phones that the REPS paid upwards of 249.00 to 399.00 arent going to pissed off since the new carrier is PCS and the GSM phones wont work on that service and now they have to purchase new phones for another what 199.00 to 399.00. I think that Jeffers himself owes it to his REPS to replace all those phones with the new PCS for no cost specailly to those who never recieved one to begin with..

    3. If you say Mr Jeffers is so smart and professional, then why is it that I still can go to the wowmobile website and order phones? Fault Advertisement if you ask me.

    4. WOW TV common really? this isn't nothing new. Take a look at some of the HTC phone specialy the DROID phones go to an app. on there download a program for IP TV and WOW you have TV on the go. This isnt something thats new. Heck some of the HTC phones come with Transformers1 and 2 preinstalled on them, I cann take a SDMI card download a movie from my laptop then play it on my droid incredible and watch movies, I can go to and watch movies free, like I said this is nothing new. so be aware watch whats coming out.

    5. You say that Mr Jeffers was never found guilty to no wrong doings when he was with Destiny in Oakland Cal., then why is it that Jeffers paid 1.6 million dollars to Alameda County. I find they following article

    OAKLAND, Calif.–Mar. 19–The Oakland-based telecommunications firm accused of operating a pyramid scheme agreed to pay $1.6 million in penalties and change several of its marketing practices in a settlement with Alameda County, Monterey County and state officials announced Tuesday.

    Oct. 10–State regulators on Friday put the kibosh on a phone company's hopes to do business in California.

    The company, Destiny Telecomm International Inc., previously known as Tel American International, has been ruled permanently unfit to do business here.

    Since 1997, the company had sold debit cards as a front for a pyramid scheme, operated telephone equipment without state approval and violated other rules, according to the California Public Utilities Commission.

    In 1996 the company applied for permission to resell phone services in California, but the state later learned that Destiny was under investigation by the Alabama Attorney General's Office in connection with a pyramid scheme….

    Seems to me thats what going to happen again if Mr Jeffers doesn't watch whats going on. That was 3 comapnies owned and operated by Jeffers, Renaissance, Tel America, and Destiny all in one slam dunk. Heck I was once told or read somewhere that his COO had embezzled thousands of dollars from Mr Jeffers and spent 10 yrs in prison and is now back helping him again with this company, must be a well liked guy.

    All these REPS here leaving post should be mad and fired up. Some of these REPS used savings that were meant for other things and seen a dream of making more money, now to have those dreams crushed and the lost of money can devistate a small family specailly in these days. Why not make Mr Jeffers feel this, make him know what its like to have dreams crushed. I say to all these remaining REPS talk to your local BBB and Attoreny General save what you can and find a more reputable company willing to fight for you, not aginst you.

  50. I'm going through the same situtation everyone else is going through, paid for a business I can't promote due to the lack of integrity on their part, fees for a service never used and a phone nevereceived. Since May I have sent numerous e-mails to Liberty's customer service and acctg. dept. have also left numerous messages on their answering system. Have yet to this date, received a single reply or phone call. I was told by my sponsor that Mr. Pacheco was going to call me, I'm still waiting. I have filed complaintswith the Florida AG, BBB and FTC. I strongly agree that T-Mobile is not responsible with our misfortube, Randy Jeffers and Liberty must refund our money. We were approached by his reps, not T-Mobile and at one point the reps didn't want to disclose true service providors for Liberty. It's true that we have some responsibility for our situation, however, we made a decision based on the information presented to us. The company that collected the money from us was Liberty, not T-Mobile or WOW. Liberty should refund our money, period. Unless this was another scheme to rip consumres off!


    Miami, FL

  51. Steve,

    WOW! Powerful words, and great food for thought. I can see and understand your point. Based on what has happened to you, if I were in your shoes I could very well, feel the same way.

    Do give this some thought. If you were to sue Liberty, and they are in any litigation with t-Mobile and win, then your case might get dismissed on the fact, Liberty will have validated their claim of it "being T-Mobile's Fault."

    Personally, I have learned a long time ago, in these situations, both sides have to carry some of the blame. And at the end of the day it is the distributors who are the unsuspecting victims.

    I will tell you this. If Liberty wins their litigation, and doesn't honor the ligitimate refund requests, then distributors should seek some legal path to get their money back.

  52. Unanswered Questions,

    If you are an ex-liberty rep, and have not been with Liberty during the last three months when T-Mobile was not supplying Sim cards and Phones, you would not be part of the class.

    However, if a Liberty Rep was active, and trying to build and/or use the service during this time period. Then a class action lawsuit may be in order. Remember, the WOW Mobile website was very clear "Powered by T-Mobile" and ALL the phones had T-Mobile's name on them, at least the ones I have do. And now T-Mobile has contacted reps and customers about their services. This places T-Mobile in the middle of everything. And on top of that T-Mobile sent a text to several thousand phones stating "T-Mobile and Liberty are working together."

    This is why I suggest reps band together to see if there is any change of a class action lawsuit.

    Now as for Liberty. You bring up a good point, and maybe there is a class action lawsuit there also. However, since Liberty has been somewhat open about the issue, and the company is NOT a wireless company, and they are now moving toawrds litigation with T-Mobile, a class acion lawsuit, might be placed on the back burner until their case is determined. If Libery wins against T-Mobile, then a judge might dismiss the class against Liberty.

    This is a great question. Call Kevin Thompson and ask him, he is the attorney.

  53. Now, I'm confused.

    Why would ex-Liberty reps sue T-mobile? We didn't make a deal with T-mobile, we didn't pay T-mobile, and we had no access to any T-mobile accounts in our names.

    If anything, we should be taking a stance of a collective action against Liberty,..since that is where our money went once it left our hands.

    If, in turn, Jeffers feels he has to sue T-mobile, then that's his prerogative.

    But, since none of the reps were party to 1, massive changes in the comp plan (which has zero to do with T-mobile), and 2. deals made with the carrier,(hence, had no control over any screw-ups in said deal,..this was all Randy's business) then, shouldn't the reps be suing the person(s) who actually took that money while knowing that the T-mobile deal had already gone south, but were still selling it?

    As far as I know, I did not give any money to T-mobile, I sent it to Liberty,, I think you're trying to aim the cannon at the wrong target.

  54. Troy,

    I am not in any hurry to want to sue anyone. Heck with the amount of dishonesty or a best lack of Liberty's willingness to even support me as a Rep and refund my money for something they could not provide, how am I even suppose to believe what they are saying about T-Mobile. It's hard for me to jump on the sue T-Mobile band wagon when I have heard nothing but liberty's side, which seems pretty darn questionable.

    My complaint here is with Liberty that is who I paid. $249.99 for a phone $27.00 shipping for that phone. And finally I signed up for the $499 business plan which clearly showed on the matrix which I copied and on their own trainig videos as coming with an instant rebate of "$150 towards wow mobile phone equipment". No where in my sign up page did the term t-mobile appear. Nor did it say my instant rebate was only good for a t-mobile phone. "It said $150 instant rebate on wow mobile phone equipment"

    So Troy if I was wanting to sue somebody for breach of sale or breach of contract it would be Liberty not T-Mobile. In the very near future if we don't get our refunds or what we paid for I will be filing a complaint with the Florida Attorney Generals office and as Randy moves me as a REP to his new company this will allow the complaint with the attorney general to follow as well.

  55. Lets wait to see IF and WHEN a law suit is filed. I'm not so sure it will be, and if it is, would anyone be surprised if it was Liberty being sued by T-Mobile? Let the public record court documents tell the story, not speculating uplines or competitors.

  56. I'm confussed.

    I have recieved calls from multiple Wow Mobile representatives asking how to process a refund through Liberty International. They all have the same story. I ordered a phone or sim card, I've been waiting for months, no wireless service, no contact from Liberty International, no customer service, online chat only. I'm now hearing that an attempt to get a refund or wireless service from WOW Mobile will require an additional purchase.

    Then you have people like "loyal wow rep" signing up distributors knowing the nightmare the new distributor's are going to be faced with, unless they are willing to go and sign up new distributors, again knowing the nightmare the new distributor will face. And the cycle goes on, Randy pays his commission and the husslers are happy and the people that want to build a real business with real customer's are looking for another home or going back to the traditional distribution model.

    Ask Randy to post the refund policy for his distributors who signed up for wireless service and purchased a phone or sim card and the product or service was not delivered.

    I'm more than willing to take the calls, walk distributors of Wow Mobile through the refund process or at least explain how I was able to get a refund. My preference is for Randy to post his position on refunds for all the distributors who paid money for a service Randy (wow mobile) was unable to deliver.

    If you give someone your word, you must deliver or give them their money back.

    What say You?



  57. Steve,

    Although, you did not address this to me. What I would suggest, is contacting Kevin Thompson my attorney, and let him get your info. I know a huge amount of Liberty reps have contacted him about launching a class action lawsuit against t-Mobile. At the very least he may be able to direct you in one direction or another.

  58. Kelli,

    Truly I can feel for your pain. I would make one suggestion, since T-Mobile is involved some how, you might contact Kevin Thompson my attorney and see if he can give you some advice on entering into a class action lawsuit against T-Mobile. I do know many Liberty reps have already contacted him on this issue.

    Kelli I wish I had some better answers, or had the ability to refund yours and others money. I will state this, and ALL reps need to understand this.

    Most of the money paid in did not go to Liberty. Remember, the majority of the monthly fees are paid out in commissions. So if you are going to be mad (rightfully so) remember where the money flowed.

  59. Hi Troy,

    I appreciate your efforts to let people know what is going on with WOW. I personally don't care anymore for the exhaustive details and ever-changing explanations, because no explanation can excuse WOW and Randy from their misrepresentations and broken promises. Even if the fault lies with every other entity and none with Randy, his name is all over it, he vouched for it, promoted it, and profited from it, and he needs to stand behind his promises by refunding the investments of people who were given false information.

    I would just like a straight, simple answer that can be trusted to my question: am I going to receive a 100% refund of the money I invested-for the phone, the "service," the back office, and the $499 business center?

    I have received no response at all from the many e-mails sent to customer service. I am now looking at pursuing this from public legal entities or consumer advocacy agencies. If you have been told that Randy is going to do the right thing, WHEN? Are you sure? I am sure there are 100's, if not 1000's making the same request, so is there just such a back log that it is going to take extended time periods? Tell Randy, a simple acknowledgment that our request is being processed would help…


  60. Mary,

    I have left customer service emails and messages. No answers! I have called their accounting number no answer or return of messages. Our main upline George Capote in Tampa told me and my sponsor to file a chargeback dispute to get our refund for phones and service we never received. So if Randy is being so above board and fair why not just refund my money he knows who he never sent phones, sims and did not provide service too.

    On June 19th David Pacheno (not sure if last name spelled right) said with Randy standing by him that for those of us owed monies for not receiving phones, sims, or service our funds are tied up with litigation between them and T-mobile and with the merchant account freezes.

    So Mary how do you suggest I get my money back for the phone I never got?

    Then I also have an issue with when I signed up the $499 plan said you would get a $150 instant rebate good towards wow mobile phone equipment. This we are also told we are now not getting.

  61. It’s very unfortunate all that has happened between Liberty International and T-Mobile. Many representatives have been affected, but I’m pretty sure that’s the last thing Randy would have wanted to happen. He did not act in bad faith or intended any wrongdoing. To all those reps. that were charged for service, phones or SIM cards and never got them, all you have to do is contact Liberty International customer service and they will refund you your money. I have known Randy for over 2 years and I know he is an honest man.

  62. Recieved my liberty check…and while at the bank…I commented to the teller…"should be plenty of money in there"

    His come back… "you ain't kidding…"

    Randy Jeffers is retired 10X over… from 11 years of business.

    Liberty also auto ship over 300 products…not just phones.

    Troy these guys don't understand 300 channels live on a phone, computer, TV…I would not miss this for all the tea in china.

    the down lines are waiting for this one…its a tidal wave of money for liberty and the reps.

    leaders from other companies are ready to move to liberty on this product alone!.

    Randy Tells it like it is, good or bad…he is straight up

    I am staying with Randy!

  63. Troy,

    Amen, you make some great points and it is obvious that you are here for the distributors as well as the owners.

    I was a WOW Mobile distributor, but after the first broken promise and the first missed delivery I packed my bags, nothing good happens after a broken promise. Under promise and over deliver. This industry does not need additional hype.

    By the way, did you see the lines for the Iphone release?

    Here's the problem in the wireless mlm space. You have these MLM's getting into the telecommunication business that don't have a clue. The telecom business is more than offering free service if you sign up 3 customers. That's the reason you mentioned Lightyear as being the only one that seem to be doing it right. Why? Because they are a telecommunication company with a back office and the infrastructure to handle the customers as well as the distributors. They only promise services they know they can deliver. All you other guy's please learn this lesson.

    Troy, this is the message some what to hear you say to the owners. ONLY PROMISE SERVICES YOU KNOW YOU CAN DELIVER.

    Thanks again,



  64. Troy,

    Here are tie facts in my case. I got a text from subject "Prevent Loss of Service" approximately 08:16am, dated 06/16/10 which stated, "Together, T-Mobile & Liberty Intl want to help you avoid a loss of service. Please contact (888) 487-3783, Option 2, M-F 6:15AM TO 8PM PST."

    I called the number mid-morning and the T-Mobile representative attempted to get me to sign on to one of T-Mobile's service plans under my own SSAN. I told him that I was very upset over T-Mobile's frustrating tactics; first the issue of WOW phones being branded T-Mobile and therefore "unusable" which eventually produced for me my Samsung Galaxy i7500 phone with a branded SIM Card carrying the label "T-Mobile" thirty three days after signing up with Liberty on 2/10/10, second, new representatives not even being able to get phones since SIM Cards without the "T-Mobile" label were not available, and third, the whole issue of representatives having made unwarranted international calls to Canada and Mexico which T-Mobile should have been able to block but didn't that led to T-Mobile's unannounced suspension of service to them, and fourth, Liberty having to enter litigation to settle the suspension and other of T-Mobile's frustrating issues which in turn led to me getting the dedicatedcare text message.

    I told the representative that I wanted to port out my number. He advised that I do so expeditiously since he did not know how long I would continue to have T-Mobile service since I was refusing to sign up for one of their plans. I spent the rest of the morning making inquiries and considering my options. At that time did not yet offer an option to reactivate an unencumbered PCS phone through their web site, my intent being to again get WOW service on the PCS network. I had asked them the question on 6/14 but had not gotten an answer. Without that answer, since my android phone was practically new and functioning perfectly and it would not work on the PCS network, I opted to go to AT&T. I had been assured by AT&T the phone would work on their service. My AT&T SIM Card arrived 6/18 in the morning by USPS Priority Mail. Sometime that morning my T-Mobile service was suspended. I replaced the T-Mobile SIM Card with the AT&T card, activated the phone, and now am up on AT&T service.

    I also intend to reactivate my Sprint Blackberry Curve through I am hanging in there with Liberty/WOW because of the potential I see there with the promised but delayed WOW TV Anywhere and with the marketing plan of three and its free.

    Anyone reading this may contact me through my IR #82254 at

    Thanks Troy for all the info you provide us!

  65. Curious,

    I do not see this similar as Destiny. The Destiny issues were raised by outsiders questioning the compensation plan, so the authorities rolled in and took massive amounts of records out of the company for review. When this news got out. Recruiting STOPPED dead, Reps jumped ship to the up and coming Excel Communication company, and the company used the majority of the remaining assets, after the authorities released all assets to finish taking care of outstanding customer issues.

    By the way, Destiny was never shut down, as a pyramid scheme or for any type of fraud, and I do not believe the company ever filed bankruptcy. In the end, Randy closed the company doors.

    Now, without a doubt, anything can happen, and at anytime it could blow into a Destiny issue, if any agency in authority questions the actions of the company.

    I would say, that if or when, Liberty files a civil action against T-Mobile it will clear up some of the questions, showing they are really going after what they have stated they are owed.

    Global Verge is a great example of what can happen when a company is silent, or slow to react. I would hate for Randy to go through what Mark and Ted have gone through by not filing a lawsuit sooner, rather than later.

    Public Opinion is great, and it gives all of us a way to vent our frustrations. But, at the end of the day a Court of Law will make a decision. As long as a civil complaint is filed. If a case is not filed, then folks will continue to question, and trust will have been broken based on a lack of follow through.

    I expect to see a case filed quickly. If not, then I will be raising some huge questions myself.

    As for the WiFi/VoIP, Randy was not the only one to try this. FDI, TraVeris, WOW, and GiConnect. To date only GiConnect has produced a product that works (I use it), but the learning curve is so huge, and the market so small, even they are not rocking the house in the USA.

    The deal with T-Mobile is in my eyes a little convoluted to say the least. I am not sure how "Shady" it is, but it does have some HUGE issues as we can all see. Again, only a court of law will clear some of this up for us. We all need some official filing to review.

    I have heard some folks having issues, then I have also received emails from folks who were able to port with no problems. I am wondering if it just depends on the store folks are going into or who they talk with on the phone. I do agree this has caused major issues for the distributors.

    As for the 3 months… Hmmm… I am not sure how to address this one. What you write is not wrong, however, I am not sure a court of law would see it the way you wrote it. I think, the law would state something along the lines of "Distributor, didn't you read the agreement you signed? It stated you were joining Liberty International, not WOW.

    Your point is well taken, and I am not making light of it. I just have to look at both sides of this issue, and try to make some sense to it all for the distributors. I walked through the signup process months ago, it was pretty clear as I read everything which company I was joining.

    By the way, Sprint is NOT the only PCS platform available in the USA. Although they are the tier 1 provider, there are plenty of Tier 2 (MVNOs) which operate their own privately owned networks on the Sprint backbone. The same can be said about landlines and VOIP.

    Yes, I have noticed the private registry. I believe that will be made clear in a few weeks.

    Randy's merchant account was not frozen, Liberty Internationals was frozen.

    I am fond of Randy, but hey Phil Piccolo is also someone I call a friend. It doesn't give either one of them room to screw the distributors, or speak in a tranperant and authentic manner.

    Well, as for "hanging in the wireless world" The only company I have seen to do this for any length of time, and they have not set the world on fire is Lightyear. Although, there does seem to be a few companies which may be getting it right, and moving forward, and a couple in the wings who might offer something new.

    No one has said I am not ticked off by what has happened. However, what I have learned since I started covering the MLM Wireless Wars, is NOT to jump to fast when things seem to point in one direction. Over the last few months we have learned to use less opinion and to follow the chain of evidence before nailing the lid on the coffin of a founder, corporate leaders and the company itself.

    I still stand for the distributors and nothing can stop that. However, there are a lot of living in question. I want to know beyond a shadow of a doubt, unethical actions have taken place before I make a statement which could hurt more distributors than it helps.

    Thank you for this comment. Your continued added value to this community is priceless.

    Living An Epic Adventure,


  66. Curious,

    I Believe, there is no way to order from WOW Mobile, even if it is showing. I have always gotten on Randy for the website. However, if I read between the lines, in what is written here by reps and from listening to Randy, the Liberty International site will be changing very soon.

    You bring up a great point.

  67. And by the way, Liberty International is STILL advertising their WOW Mobile website from their corporate and saying that they can get unlimited everything for $89 a month on a GSM network. I thin Randy should contact whoever he outsources his web design to so he can get that updated. Otherwise there might be some false advertising claims!

  68. Troy,

    I have a question that perhaps you can clear up. Isn't this similar to what happened with Destiny Telecom? I mean, I know Destiny was attacked by the feds for running an illegal pyramid scheme and Randy had to shut it down. But didn't he just basically stop paying people in Destiny, get rid of the Destiny Telecom name and then go out and start Liberty International not long after?

    So let's look at some facts here for a second:

    First Randy Jeffers has his over hyped phone card MLM shut down for being an illegal pyramid scheme.

    So he goes and changes the name and relaunches a new company 11 years ago called Liberty International. He stays under the MLM radar for 11 years then decides to jump on the MLM Wireless bandwagon late last year. To do that he launches WOW Mobile as part of Liberty selling WiFi/VOIP Wireless which by his own admission was a bad mistake and that didn't work out.

    Then he creates what I think we can all agree was some sort of shady deal with T-Mobile (Troy, you have A LOT more research to do on this one as we are speaking with a lot of former WOW people who are having a really hard time getting their number ported AWAY from WOW because Randy Jeffers and 3 of his staff members are all listed as the account owners – I'm sorry buddy but that doesn't happen with a real wholesale or even retail contract – that only takes place in a corporate contract – which would mean that Randy was reselling phones at a profit that were supposed to be purchased at a corporate discount to be provided to employees!!! A simple question you should ask your buddy Randy Jeffers: Why is your name and your staff listed as the account holders for all of your reps' wireless accounts? Let's see his reply to that one). So obviously, the deal with T-Mobile fell apart.

    So for 3 months he has been hyping the wireless opportunity with his field leaders, recruiting people at $499 a head all the while knowing full-well that he can't activate or ship any T-Mobile phones or service, the entire time making people think everything is just peachy. Then it comes out that all of the reps' services are being shut off and now they need to go buy new phones through (a privately registered domain I might add) which OBVIOUSLY is selling Sprint service at ridiculously high prices.

    And now his merchant account is frozen.

    Okay Troy, I know you're fond of Randy Jeffers and I admire that about you. But do me a favor and take your admiration or respect or whatever you have for Randy off the table for a second and look at this objectively for a moment. Randy has done nothing but prove he cannot hang in the wireless industry. To say otherwise is not being objective. As an advocate for our profession I would think you would be ticked off at what Randy is doing to the MLM industry. But for some reason you continue to stick by him.

    And please show me how Randy Jeffers always seems to "land on his feet." I'm sorry but he looks pretty upside down to me!

  69. TalkenFree,

    I covered that in the video, but may not have been clear. They have backup and additional merchant accounts which can be used. From my understanding, there was an announcement made in Orlando, that another entity Randy controls would be dealing with the new PCS carrier and field organization.

    I also believe that one of the reasons Zoom, Liberty and others are now using national MVNOs instead of dealing directly with the tier 1 carriers is so they can have more control over the monthly billing issues.

  70. Lloyd,

    I can tell you are mad, angry, frustrated, hurt, at once again feeling like the financial opportunity has been ripped away from you.

    And I agree there is a time to fish or cut bait. But if only 25% of what Randy has stated publicly comes to pass, then the distributors will come out ahead.

    I can't tell you to stay at WOW or jump into another troubled MLM wireless company. But, I can tell you that I have yet to find any company which has it all together.

    My suggestion is check and see if any Liberty distributors or customers are looking to file a class action lawsuit against T-Mobile and join it. I would also pick a time limit, a d-day that you are willing to give yourself. If things don't turn, then quit.

    If that time is now, then stop focusing on what could have been and go find a new leader you can believe in!

  71. Troy,

    It sounds like you gave a 5 minute commercial for WOW mobile. Lots of excitement and enthusiasm in your voice and all the good things going on with WOW. Where is your objectivity. You say Randy takes care of his distributors…how about no sim cards or phones for months. How about distributors paying $400 for a phone that has no service. How about charging people month after month for no phone service. It is good of Randy to pay the commissions. Is he paying commissions on those 8,000 phones that were turned off? What is he paying commissions on? Phone Service? or vitamins?

    Listen to yourself you gave a great sizzle WOW promotion. I am glad your on fire over WOW. I' have been burnt by WOW Mobile and Randy Jeffers.

  72. How are they going to do business with a frozen merchant account?

    As far as International Long Distance Charges goes….

    Is it possible for companies like Zoom and Liberty to simply BLOCK

    these calls with software in the phone to prevent things like this from

    happening in the future?

    I can imagine lots of people inadvertently calling internationally.

    Thank you Troy for all the light you shed on these issues.


  73. Curious,

    ROFLOL… Now, we don't have all that many. Although, we are putting on some new ones in a few new niches, and updating several others.

  74. Michael,

    Great question. Unlike the last time where Liberty, was working directly with a Tier 1 provider, they now have a layer or maybe two between them and the tier 1 provider. This is standard and the way most of the wireless industry runs. Go into Wal-Mart and you see all kinds of name brand wireless services. However, we all know there are only four tier 1 providers.

    If we dig deep we see that Sprint has a couple of master national MVNOs, and those folks have thousands of resellers, agents, master agents etc. Well it seems Liberty has seen why other companies did not try and deal direct.

    Now, the one question which is still unsettling, is what happens, if reps over hype the new service of any company, and causes issues for the MVNO?

    As for who their service provider is, and not being any secrets. I fully understand where you are coming from, but disagree. Keeping your vender agreements private is standard business operations. Although, some companies like Zoom Mobile may disclose their MVNO, most keep it secret.

    Since I am not a rep, nor do I have PCS service, I am not sure how the service works, or who is answering the 611 calls. Maybe we can get someone to tell us the name of the company answering the 611 calls.

    You do bring up great concerns.

  75. If there is no agreement with Sprint or Verizon, or any of the providers, isn't it a legitmate question to ask exactly who the relationship is with and how the service is provided? Honestly, there shouldn't be any secrets here. If there's a legitimate service relationship with a company, I think the distributors should know exactly how it works. That's how it should be, and until Liberty comes clean and exposes how they intend to supply service and shows a legitimate agreement with a service provider, then this is trouble waiting to happen. It's not that difficult, just show the agreement and who it's with. That's not asking too much.

  76. What a mess! Thanks Troy for keeping the info out there.

    Off topic: Dude, you have a TON of websites!

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