This top VoiParty distributor wrote an excellent response to the MLM Scam Alert we published back in January on VoiParty. Although our stance has not changed, I respect this leader, and his ability to share with the world what he feels is a very powerful business model and MLM opportunity.
I will be putting specific video’s inside of his letter where I have responded to help both the reader, and to explain my points in more detail.
“Troy,
Being a VoiParty member now for over two months and someone who has made it their business to learn as much as they possibly could about who is behind the company and what the down range plans are I can tell you that you’ve jumped to a lot of shortsighted conclusions and instead of seeking more information directly from the company which would be the professional thing to do in such a situation, you have instead engaged in irresponsible journalism.
Troy’s Response: How could I have “jumped to conclusions” when all I did was use the verbiage off the companies official website? See what I did is exactly what the FTC and AG’s do when they launch an investigation. However, all I did was issue a Scam Alert. Just as you expect professional journalism, I expect a company to promote themselves in a professional manner.
I can’t in good conscience let that stand in a public forum without presenting another viewpoint informed by proper due diligence.
Troy’s Response: I respect your position.
I do appreciate your pointing out the improper use of the word “investment” and I will implore the principles to strike it from any appearances in print and re-record any presentations where that word may have been used.
The problem is that the word means something different in general usage than it does within law but in matters of law no general usage is acknowledged as law gains its force by not allowing for any ambiguity.
Troy’s Response: I respectfully disagree. An investment always has, and always will mean money. Yep, it also means other things. But when a business is promoting the opportunity, it a foregone conclusion when the word INVESTMENT is used, money is involved.
You and I both know that the word ‘investment’ in VoiParty presentations has been used in the casual sense of committing time and money to an endeavor in hopes of earning something back for one’s efforts. Case in point about common usage is that in last week’s State of the Union Address, Obama said we need to ‘invest’ in green and sustainable technologies.
Troy’s Response: I will agree that it very well can also include these things, but I still believe the FTC and AGs will see MONEY as the investment. In all my years in business, I have never seen a company present their opportunity, and tell folks, “we want you to invest everything BUT your money.”
No one has ever been presented with the solicitation of a regulated security in VoiParty; that’s ridiculous of course, and yet the AGs and the FTC could pounce if they wanted to because in their domain that word has a legal definition so you are right that Voiparty should tighten up their act.
Troy’s Response: I do not believe I may any reference to a regulated security, or a non-regulated security for that matter.
The only other thing that you were right about is this statement you made in a comment, “Based on the limited information available…”
Troy’s Response: That is correct. All of our info is based on the companies official website, which at best has limited information, which in and of itself violates Florida laws, let alone the FTC, SEC and 49 other state laws.
That’s it Troy, everything you said in your video and your written comments was based on “limited information available” but instead of contacting the company with your concerns and asking to be filled in on the information that was missing so you could produce an intelligent report based on all the data, you instead whipped up a SCAM ALERT.
Troy’s Response: It is the public information available to the public off the website, which is the first place most people go to find out about an opportunity, once they have talked to a rep. When a company website does not provide the basic information, this is red flag. If a company corrects their site, then we talk about that. In this case, they have put the P&Ps on the site, which is a start. Let’s take a look at one of the videos to give the readers a first hand perspective.
Tsk tsk tsk. Shame on you for stirring things up instead of finding things out.
Let me address some of your specific points:
I will tell you this Troy, when I had the same questions as you as to who was behind this, all I had to do is call the company and ask, and I was sent the bios of all the principles. Very impressive by the way.
Troy’s Response: I already know who is behind the company. My statement is the fact it is not listed on the site. This is a basic rule when offering a business opportunity.
The policies and procedures are available during the signup process. They are not “missing.” You don’t see them during the VIP invitation-only prelaunch because you need an invitation code from a sponsor to enter the area of the website where they’re located.
Troy’s Response: Now they are available on the bottom of the website. The laws state people must have an opportunity to read them “before” signing up, not during the process.
The website that you’ve combed looking for “incriminating” items to fuel your controversy creating SCAM ALERT is a temp site up to get launched with. It’s being totally redone.
Troy’s Response” Incriminating is a good word to use. But the excuse of “temp site” has nothing to do with current law. When a company decided to offer a business opportunity, the basic information must be available… even on a temp site.
I don’t know if Scott Warren is their attorney or not but instead of ranting that you don’t see his “signature” on any of the VoiParty materials why don’t you lift the phone and call him and find out? That just seems so obvious. You say you know him, what’s stopping you from calling?
Troy’s Response: Again, this is an assumption on your part. Word was put out to Scott, and we never heard back.
You are presenting yourself here as a responsible professional, aren’t you? In my opinion you fell below standard here when you opened mouth before engaging brain.
That’s OK, we all make mistakes once in a while but I think the right thing to do here would be to make a retraction until you got the right info to either back up your warnings or move the article over to your hot MLMs section.
Troy’s Response: Responsible professional is a subjective term, so I can’t answer that question. However, based on current law, I did raise important questions, which deserve direct answers on the website. If the questions are answered in a manner, which places the company in compliance based on current regulations, you bet I will move them. However, based on what is public info, they stay where they are.
Which is not to say that I don’t agree with you on the careless use of the word “investment”, I do. But the other stuff? There is definitely a printed copy of the comp plan available and as I stated above, the policies and procedures doc.
Troy’s Response: Think about this from my perspective for a second. If they are careless in one area, how am I to know they are not in others? Prime example… in their video they state (based on fear of loss marketing) they state… “Limited positions available in specific territories… the party will be closing soon.” The FTC will snag this ASAP because if you are running a matrix compensation plan, and state, limited positions, closing soon, this means someone at the bottom of the matrix can’t earn their money back, because they can’t recruit. Let’s share another video from the website for perspective.
Why does VoiParty want a special designation from the FTC? Because they are doing something different than has ever been done.
Troy’s Response: No they are not… Their words are plain as day… We are a network marketing company. They are a direct selling company using a MLM compensation structure. This profession is 70 years old, the FTC doesn’t give out exceptions. By the way, neither does the state of Florida, which is where the exception would have to come from.
VoiParty IS a horse of a different color because there are a limited amount of boxes to be placed and then that’s it (until worldwide expansion starts anyway). If there’s a sense of urgency created by knowing that there are only so many seats on the train what’s the problem with telling people the scoop that if ya snooze ya lose could be your reality? It’s a fact that there will only be so many needed in each area code. What’s better? Telling people now or waiting until later when they are all taken and then announcing no more?
Troy’s Response: Thank you for validating my argument “limited amount”. Remember the Scam Alerts are based on current laws, and historical rulings.
If the company forces the matrix by giving a member a customer who comes in via the national marketing campaign then what’s the problem with them saying there’s no membership bonus to be paid on those members? The VoiParty rep receiving the new person didn’t do any work to recruit them so why should they be paid for something they didn’t put any effort into? Isn’t it enough that the new person fills a hole in their matrix and counts towards maximizing their monthly residual income? That’s a nice gift. And it’s not like the company is pocketing “your” money. Don’t you think they deserve to recover some of the expenses of mounting a national media campaign?
Troy’s Responses: Based on the videos, everyone is in the matrix. For any MLM compensation plan to be legit, there has to be customers brought to the company, whereby the distributors earn income which are outside of the compensation structure. Based on your explanation above, the company places the “customer” inside the compensation plan, and they hold the sponsorship. If this is incorrect please correct me. Let’s take a look at the compensation structure. Maybe the readers will agree with you and the company, that this is not an MLM. If that is the case, then I doubt many folks will read the article since it is on an MLM site.
They will be carrying the operating costs until the network reaches 10,000 or so boxes. Isn’t it just good business to try to reach that break even number as quickly as possible and recoup as much dinero as possible along the way to hitting that mark? If the company recruits for the rep why shouldn’t they get to keep that money by not having to pay it out to someone who did no work for it?
Troy, I can tell by your comments that you do not have an awareness of what is ultimately being accomplished with the creation of this peer to peer network and frankly, I don’t trust you enough to tell you because you’ve shown here that your angle on things is to specialize in expose’ and stirring up controversy where there is none.
Troy’s Response: You might be surprised at what I know about the P2P network and the sale of wholesale data across the VOIP lines… But, hey there is no need to explain anything to me, I have not questioned the underlying core business model.
Just please understand that you’ve taken sketchy material, that even though it is far better than a lot of companies I’ve seen have at launch, is still just placeholder material to get going with and have drawn incorrect conclusions about what this company is doing. This is not just about long distance calling at so many minutes per box but you haven’t looked beyond the surface of the temporary website.
Troy’s Response: You are 100% correct. We took what is public on the website. Again, this is exactly what the FTC and AGs do.
If you have all this experience that you state in your bio as someone who knows how to assess opportunities then why don’t you see that a company in its infancy likely won’t have all its I’s dotted and T’s crossed? Sure, the site is sketchy with limited information. It’s a pre-launch.
Troy’s Response: This is an excuse for the company. There is no excuse for violating the law. It does not matter if a company is just starting out, or is 10 years old. If they are putting distributors at risk, we will call them on it. I don’t care about the company, I care about distributors and potential distributors who are not knowledgeable on MLM laws, joining a company who doesn’t take care of the small stuff. In all my years I have never seen a company brought own because of big things, it has always been the small stuff they ignored.
This is what would make sense to me: If your mission is to want to be truly helpful to people, hence the name MLM Help Desk, you could call the VoiParty principles and give them the benefit of your expertise at a time when they could use it rather than throw your weight around here with so much bluster… but that wouldn’t get you many hits on your website though, would it?
Troy’s Responses: Again an assumption on your part that this was not done, by me or one of our team members.
Yes, I suppose you are correct in saying the sketchy stuff “raises questions” but instead of going for answers, you see fit to categorize VoiParty under your SCAM ALERT heading.
Troy’s Response: That is 100% correct. If you watch the current video we shot on what Scam Alerts are and what they are not, it should make more sense.
I assume that a lot of people listen to you and look up to you, Troy. Don’t you feel that you owe them the straight scoop on things derived from careful research rather than going off on a fear inducing rant?
Troy’s response: I did give the straight scoop, based on the only official place to find the information… The company website. Let’s take a look at one last video from the website. I also think this will give the readers a better understanding of the core business.
If you were coming at this from a neutral place and cared to find out the real story behind what little you can see now as VoiParty comes out of pre-launch you would discover a truly epic adventure of a company and a team of professionals about to transform an industry on a level every bit as remarkable as what digital cameras did to the chemical film and camera industry.
Troy’s Response: I am never neutral. I am always on the side of protecting distributors from the lack of information. There is no such thing as pre-launch in the eyes of the law. When a company places a website live, it has to be in compliance.
I can assure you that this is not a pyramid based all on recruiting and no sales. You don’t have a clue about what’s coming in terms of revenue producing products and services. But step one is to create the network of “indoor telephone poles” as a delivery conduit. VoiParty needs to create the alternative digital infrastructure to the currently dominant pole and wire system as a first step and then its Katie bar the door. The peer to peer network is the foundation for something much, much bigger.
Troy’s Response: Based on the videos produced by the company, this would fall in the category of a pyramid scheme, it does not matter what might be coming. All that matters is what is current and live now. You seem to be going after the messenger, instead of realizing case law is already set.
For those who get what’s happening here and on what scale, there are going to be some very happy smiling people who were the pioneers who said yes to giving a connection box a good home on their desktops. It’s likely that more millionaires will be created through the VoiParty comp plan that those that have been created through Microsoft and Apple combined.
You think there’s very little money here? Well you’d be right IF projected incomes were based only upon the numbers you’re looking at (10,000 boxes and $280K etc.) but what you don’t get is that the wholesale long distance market is just the entry point by which VoiParty can establish something much more versatile and utilitarian. There must be some good reason why Cisco’s Link Sys department has agreed that for the next 90 days only VoiParty will get every connection box that comes off the assembly line, doncha think? Explosive growth maybe?
This endeavor is analogous in scale to the building of the intercontinental railway back in the 1800′s that created a way to travel from coast to coast for the very first time. It was a quantum leap in comfort, safety and speed beyond the wagon train, stage coach, mule train technology and digital indoor telephone poles are a quantum leap in cost, efficiency and versatility beyond the pole and wire infrastructure. The poles and wires are dinosaurs that are not going to be made extinct by a comet but by a little digital router that’s been the proven workhorse of the industry for over 10 years but now in the service of an entirely different vision, a vision that will bring a new future into focus.
1.3 million indoor telephone poles strategically situated will create a network that will not only offer an integral and essential service that’s 300-400% less expensive on long distance delivery than is currently the norm, it will show the world something that it’s never seen before, something very lucrative for VoiParty members and I’ll just leave it at that for now.
But here’s a clue:
I challenge you to name a network marketing or direct sales company that has ever done what VoiParty is doing- monetizing the endeavor on money being spent by people who are NOT in the company and who don’t even know or need to know that VoiParty even exists.
VoiParty has no need to care about customer acquisition and retention and VoiParty reps have no need to sell anything. No one has to be convinced of a need for our product, no one has to make a buying decision or a behavior change. Everyone just goes about their daily lives as they always have and VoiParty members get paid.
When have you ever seen a company with a business model that financially advantages peoples existing habits without disturbing them whatsoever and seamlessly integrates with the existing distribution system in one of largest utilities there is?
Now THAT is totally newsworthy and remarkable, Troy. You’re missing the real story here.
This is so far outside the box that most people don’t get it unless they apply themselves with the desire to look past first impressions and comparisons to Vonage or Magic Jack etc. so don’t feel bad if you didn’t see it yet, Troy. But if you back off your vigilante stance and sincerely desire to be shown the big picture you’ll see this really is an epic adventure.
A year from now we will all look back and see that an upstart, relative unknown pulled off a David and Goliath type triumph and will have AT&T singing their praises for doing something the top dog giant could not do with the weight of its giant pole and wire infrastructure dragging on its operating expenses. And VoiParty is actually going to save At&T (and all the other ‘bigs”) tens of millions in wholesale minute routing costs in the process.
That’s amazing when a new “competitor” entering a marketplace helps the other players’ bottom lines instead of taking market share FROM them. Kinda makes ya go hmmm…..
What VoiParty is bringing to the table is nothing less than industry wide transformation… just like that digital camera changed the photography industry overnight. It’s that big, bigger even because no end users have to get involved with choosing to purchase any special dojiggys.
Everybody just picks up the phone and dials like they always did but the calls are routed through the VoiParty indoor digital network instead of the old pole and wire system. And the big deal is they are 300%-400% cheaper to deliver. Everybody wins.
Now THAT’s newsworthy and remarkable, wouldn’t you say?
Troy’s Response: Excellent recruiting presentation and I am leaving it in this response. As for your challenge, Peer pressure was never a weakness. My article is not on comparing MLM companies, it is on VoiParty getting into compliance.
So let me just say to all the people who you may have scared off with your “watch out for a scam” stance Troy, thank you in advance for your business because every time you make a long distance call to a land line or business, we VoiParty members are going to get paid on your calls. That’s a fact.
Troy, in closing I would invite you to take another look at VoiParty from the perspective of what might be remarkable about it rather than calling it a possible scam for what isn’t in perfect order right out of the gate. You’ve seen enough start ups to know that it’s typical that not everything is dialed in at the beginning and there will be adjustments needed as the business unfolds.
There’s nothing to sound the alarm here about, my friend. It’s just start up time, that’s all. What’s the worst that can happen to someone who joins VoiParty? That they get free long distance for life with 18 premium telephony features for about 10 months worth of what they’re paying for monthly service now? Is that so bad?
Troy’s Response: Sounds like the democrats before 9/11. When a company is out of compliance in the small issues, there is always a reason to raise the red flags. Again, my only concern is giving an Eagle’s Eye view from someone who is not monetarily connected to the company to potential distributors. Plus, if I’m right and you’re wrong. The company will never be able to use the excuse… We didn’t know, leaving a class action lawsuit by the distributors as an avenue to collect back some of their money.
Troy, do the right thing. Call the company and get to know the people and feel who they are. Hell, travel over there to FL and see the operation with your own eyes. There’s a real story here far more deserving of your writing talents than being relegated to the SCAM ALERT bin. Joe and Ciro and Paul are very open to showing everything… except the proprietary intellectual property of course. 
Troy’s Response: Again, an assumption we have not reached out.
This would be a chance to change history for you because let’s just say that VoiParty does exactly what they say they will. Your warning video will look pretty off base in light of that. Have you seen the replay of financial guru, Jim Cramer telling everyone that Bear Stearns was just as strong as ever and to ignore the rumors of trouble just a day before they went bankrupt and started the Wall Street meltdown?
Troy’s Response: Fantastic rebuttal from someone who is truly an advocate for VoiParty. It is this type of commitment, which will make you a good leader in the company.
Whoopsie…
sending...
OK, I get your point, Troy and I can see it from your point of view. Potential reps could be hurt by a company's failure to dot every i and cross every t so your job is to "err" on the side of caution in order to protect the innocent and unsuspecting from possibly getting hurt if the company later gets shut down by the alphabet soup organizations for not being precise enough in their public language.
My apologies for assuming you did not attempt to contact the company to inquire about some of the questionable items.
I got a peek at the new website this afternoon (going live in 3 days or so) and I believe a lot of what you had questions about on the placeholder site now appears in a way that would not have tripped your scoring system if it had come out this way initially.
On the new site you will find Scott Warren indeed heads up the legal department and I'm sure that your previously stated respect for his expertise and professionalism will be subtantiated as VoiParty continues to mature and develop. (cont. due to length)
BigPicView,
I want you to get me the site as soon as it goes pubic and I promise to take as much time reporting on the changes you assure me are there.
You play a good game of hardball, Troy and I will concede that if parsing every sentence of a new company's website is the most important factor of the due dilligence process, you've done an outstanding job.
I still take issue with some of the commentary that went along with all the pointing out of missing this and sloppy that but then I'm admittedly biased about the fact that this company is doing something remarkable that no one has ever done before.
I'm confident that as time goes on and all the legal stuff is tightened up you will come to see it as an Epic Adventure of a business model and move it out of the Scam Alert bin into the MLM News bin.
BigPicView,
To many times the distributors are the ones that get hurt. At the end of the day the Attorneys right or wrong on setting up the companies are the ones who win. They make their money coming and going.
I will raise as much praise as I do concern if things are tightened up.
As of 23 Feb 2010 THe Iowa AG office has made in inquiry into the company as in Iowa to be part of this and make money from this program you must be a regulated utility company per the current law. I have been contacted by many VIOP PARTY peoplr to join but this is a major block for me in IOwa. Second block being 100% blind the company is not not met any requirements of the FEDERAL ADA laws. The site is not accessible to the visually impaired. (54 million people). Like I have said "I SEE" many problems ahead.
Hmm… I had not even touched on the Utility side of things. Great point to ponder.
Historically MLM has simply changed people's buying habits. Here I see that the customers for the VoiParty system are really the big telephone companies. These will never be inside the matrix.
The money to pay the distributors is being spent by these customers, but just with another Vendor. If VoiParty can be the low cost provider this money will switch in a heart beat.
Any definitive limit on the number of distributors in a forced matrix is still very clearly a problem for those becoming involved in the latter stages.
I have joined VoiParty but only very recently. While I share Troy's vision of red flags I also see a a significant enough difference between this and other mlm companies to feel this will work.
Cheers everyone.
Glad to see another educated voice in this discussion, Peter.
There's just enough on the surface about Voiparty so as to appear like just another long distance provider that most people miss what's actually happening.
But you said it so clearly, the customers are actually the big telephone companies.
Even Robin and Troy haven't snapped to the fact that VoiParty not paying for recruiting.
We have a product that is a direct sale. Reps invite others to purchase a connection box and place it in their homes. Once the product is set up and turned on it starts to divert money out of an already existing $80M per month revenue stream.
We make our money from the people who are NOT in VoiParty and there are millions and milions more people in that demographic than in our company. Light bulbs going on yet? (cont. next post)
BigPicView,
It is always great to see you post. You truly bring a solid response for people to think about. There are a couple of things I did notice, which I would like to address.
1. If the customers are the Big Phone companies, then this seems to validate my concern that the distributors are not providing any products or services to anyone outside of the compensation matrix, which places VoiParty in the sites of the regulators as an MLM Pyramid. If this happens what guarantee is the company giving the distributors, they will not drop the compensation plan and just keep everyone as a customer? Seems if you are getting your service for close to nothing, even if there is no pay, you would not drop the service.
Please help me understand this a little better. I am still very concerned for the distributors. And remember, I have not questioned the underlying core business at all.
2. the reason I have not jumped on "paying for recruiting" is because that is illegal, and it never crossed my mind the company was doing anything blatantly illegal. But, with that said, all the money is coming from inside the compensation plan, and from the purchase of the boxes by folks inside the compensation plan, which does cause for alarm, since the regulations already state this is basic foundation of a pyramid.
3. I do understand what you are stating, and I have watched the videos on the business itself. However, inside of the VoiParty structure, this is all hypothetical. Unless you can show me the stats where a beta test was done to prove the business model will sustain a compensation plan without further recruiting. Because everything I read, states ALL telecommunication costs are dropping, not rising, which means even if the network is established, the amount of money may fall hugely.
Point 1.- Now you are starting to penetrate in to how the VoiParty business model is neither fish nor fowl when it comes to fitting in to previously existing structures that can be easily classified.
VoiParty members are not direct revenue sources to the VoiParty company as members of another company might be through an autoship or monthly subscription model. They are a conduit to a revenue stream that exists outside the company. Each member supplies an entry point from that stream that feeds back to the company who then feeds back 70% of the revenues received to the membership for the part they play in creating the system.
The VoiParty members ARE the network. It may take a little bit of thinking to get one’s head wrapped around this highly unusual structure and what it actually means.
Each member’s DECISION to puchase a connection box is what establishes the network. Once the decision is made the box goes to work harvesting revenue from the already exisiting $800M per month wholesale long distance minutes market.
1.3 million members saying “Yes, I will give this little box a space on my desk to work from. I will pay for it’s 110v power as part of my electric bill. I will pay for it’s ability to receive a VOIP signal as part of my monthly high speed modem charge and I will pay for a regular copper phone line to deliver the long distance calls of all the other phone companies to their last mile” is what builds the world’s first cross country indoor digital phone company and spreads the physical infrastructure operating costs equally among the individual members which leaves the company having only to carry the operating expenses of the central computers, servers, staff and offices.
In exchange for being an indoor telephone pole location VoiParty compensates the individual members with a portion of the money saved on not having to maintain the legacy infrastructure the way an outdoor pole and wire company must.
So is there a product or service? VoiParty members supply a service to the all the phone companies needing to connect the long distance calls of their subscribers by giving them a lower cost connection alternative to the existing outdoor pole and wire system.
The connection boxes sit at the ready to route calls that happen to come within their proximity.
Troy, your “what if” about the comp plan going away and everybody staying with the service because the cost is next to nothing doesn’t take into consideration the fact that the members ARE the network and as such have the power to refuse such a bait and switch deal. By simply pulling the plug out of the wall the members can bring the company to its proverbial knees because they are nothing without their ability to deliver calls. The members ARE the ability to deliver calls. Not that the company would ever try to do that to the members but since you brought it up…
Also, I want to remind everybody that entry into the wholesale long distance minutes market is merely the way VoiParty is establishing the nation wide network of pole locations. Once they are in place the next level of the business plan kicks in.
The boxes now collectively form a platform and conduit down which a wide array of commisionalble digital products and applications can be delivered while the wholesale minutes revenue stream continues to run in the background. Things like wireless
tv, cellular VOIP, low cost intenet connection at G10 speed, smartphone apps and things that haven’t even been invented yet.
Point 2.- Again, this is really a horse of a different color business model. Think of it like this: If you were a plumber you would need to have a a pipe wrench to ply your trade.
You buy the wrench one time and then every day you use it to turn pipes and you charge for what you do with your wrench every day. Ka ching.
A VoiParty member pays for their indoor telephone pole one time and then plugs it in on their desk where it goes to work routing other peoples long distance calls on a daily basis. It’s a little money making wrench that turns itself another turn every time a call comes in its proximity. Ka ching.
The plumber makes money by turning his wrench. The VoiParty member makes money by plugging in their connection box.
Point 3.- Troy, you wouldn’t expect KFC to show you the Colonel’s secret spice recipe just because you asked, would you? What company in their right mind would reveal their trade secrets when they are just about to transform an industry?
Besides, I can’t show you the beta test results because I’m not privy to them but I have no reason to believe that they haven’t been established. Why would a company go to the effort and expense of launching this particular business model if they didn’t have the central computer and servers dialed in and ready to manage the system?
After 4 months of studying what has been laid out in the VoiParty vision I have nothing but great admiration and respect for Joe Machado, Ciro Martinez, Paul Jorgensen, Joe Lopez and all the other corporate team members.
These guys have spent a ton of money getting this ready to fly and they are going to carry the costs until it becomes self sustaining. This is not a frivolous endeavor.
Yes, the trend is underway that ALL telecom costs are dropping. I’m amazed that you don’t see that VoiParty’s market share comes from making them drop more than anyone else can. We get paid exactly for saving other companys a lot of money.
This industry is a market of tremendous scale. When you are dealing with a volume of 15 billion minutes a month that’s a whole lot of pennies to be making but remember, this wholesale minutes business is just the launching pad to establish the platform for all the other digital products and apps to come in the next phase.
And yes, there will be a whole retail market to capitalize on as well as another revenue stream. Free long distance for life to the US& Canada for the one time cost of about 6-10 months of an average long distance bill.
Point 1.- Now you are starting to penetrate in to how the VoiParty business model is neither fish nor fowl when it comes to fitting in to previously existing structures that can be easily classified.
VoiParty members are not direct revenue sources to the VoiParty company as members of another company might be through an autoship or monthly subscription model. They are a conduit to a revenue stream that exists outside the company. Each member supplies an entry point from that stream that feeds back to the company who then feeds back 70% of the revenues received to the membership for the part they play in creating the system.
The VoiParty members ARE the network. It may take a little bit of thinking to get one's head wrapped around this highly unusual structure and what it actually means.
Each member's DECISION to puchase a connection box is what establishes the network. Once the decision is made the box goes to work harvesting revenue from the already exisiting $800M per month wholesale long distance minutes market. (cont. next post)
Each box becomes a single point in a network that will spread across the whole North American continent as part of the first phase of a planned 1.3 million connection boxes. (The 10 thousand that Troy mentions in his video was a number that was going around as the break even point for the company to hit before actual profitablity was reached).
After 1.3 million they may decide to place more in the network but they will cross that bridge later. But it's not a problem because once VoiParty settles the North American continent we move internationally where the target is 20 million boxes.
And what else seems to be sailing over most people's heads is the fact that VoiParty's business plan is so much more than just capturing wholesale long distance business. This part of establsihing the network is only the way it will be created.
Then the real fun begins as they offer all kinds of other commissionable digital products and applications. Like I said, most people don't get what this is.
Ok, let's continues, you bring up some more great points.
1. What happens if the boxes are turned off? And what happens if 10K boxes are not activated?
2. Since the big phone companies control the data pipe already, while will they pay VoiParty?
3. If the big phone companies are the clients, then this seem to validate my concern that VoiParty falls under the definition of a pyramid. It seems the only money comes from people inside the compensation plan using the boxes.
4. What happens if I am right and the regulators come after VoiParty for using a MLM structure and they tell the company to shut it down. Has the company given the founding party members any guarantee of what happens if you guys build this big, and they have to cut the compensation and keep the box users you bring in?
1.3 million members saying "Yes, I will give this little box a space on my desk to work from. I will pay for it's 110v power as part of my electric bill. I will pay for it's ability to receive a VOIP signal as part of my monthly high speed modem charge and I will pay for a regular copper phone line to deliver the long distance calls of all the other phone companies to their last mile" is what builds the world's first cross country indoor digital phone company and spreads the physical infrastructure operating costs equally among the individual members which leaves the company having only to carry the operating expenses of the central computers, servers, staff and offices.
In exchange for being an indoor telephone pole location VoiParty compensates the individual members with a portion of the money saved on not having to maintain the legacy infrastructure the way an outdoor pole and wire company must. (cont. next post)
So is there a product or service? VoiParty members supply a service to the all the phone companies needing to connect the long distance calls of their subscribers by giving them a lower cost connection alternative to the existing outdoor pole and wire system.
The connection boxes sit at the ready to route calls that happen to come within their proximity.
Troy, your "what if" about the comp plan going away and everybody staying with the service because the cost is next to nothing doesn't take into consideration the fact that the members ARE the network and as such have the power to refuse such a bait and switch deal. By simply pulling the plug out of the wall the members can bring the company to its proverbial knees because they are nothing without their ability to deliver calls. The members ARE the ability to deliver calls. Not that the company would ever try to do that to the members but since you brought it up… (cont. next post)
Also, I want to remind everybody that entry into the wholesale long distance minutes market is merely the way VoiParty is establishing the nation wide network of pole locations. Once they are in place the next level of the business plan kicks in.
The boxes now collectively form a platform and conduit down which a wide array of commisionalble digital products and applications can be delivered while the wholesale minutes revenue stream continues to run in the background. Things like wireless
tv, cellular VOIP, low cost intenet connection at G10 speed, smartphone apps and things that haven't even been invented yet. (cont. next post)
Point 2.- Again, this is really a horse of a different color business model. Think of it like this: If you were a plumber you would need to have a a pipe wrench to ply your trade.
You buy the wrench one time and then every day you use it to turn pipes and you charge for what you do with your wrench every day. Ka ching.
A VoiParty member pays for their indoor telephone pole one time and then plugs it in on their desk where it goes to work routing other peoples long distance calls on a daily basis. It's a little money making wrench that turns itself another turn every time a call comes in its proximity. Ka ching.
The plumber makes money by turning his wrench. The VoiParty member makes money by plugging in their connection box. (cont. next post)
Yes, the trend is underway that ALL telecom costs are dropping. I'm amazed that you don't see that VoiParty's market share comes from making them drop more than anyone else can. We get paid exactly for saving other companys a lot of money.
This industry is a market of tremendous scale. When you are dealing with a volume of 15 billion minutes a month that's a whole lot of pennies to be making but remember, this wholesale minutes business is just the launching pad to establish the platform for all the other digital products and apps to come in the next phase.
And yes, there will be a whole retail market to capitalize on as well as another revenue stream. Free long distance for life to the US& Canada for the one time cost of about 6-10 months of an average long distance bill.
At the end of the day, it all comes down to the compensation plan, not the core business model. Without the distributor (Party member) selling a service or product to someone outside of the compensation structure, it does not fall into the legal definition of a Network Marketing company, which is what they call themselves, and is the type of structure they have decided to use.
Until a regulatory agency rules on this issue, we will have to continue to warn potential distributors of this risk.
What do you mean we are not selling a service to someone outside the compensation structure?
Of course we are. The only thing is it all takes place automatically and our customers are the big phone companies.
You plug the device into the system and everytime a call comes within proximity it gets routed through the box. The minutes are timed and a toll is charged. That's a sale. (cont. next post)
Now how do I go about making these sales as a VoiParty member?
By choosing to plug in my box and choosing to leave it plugged in and active by paying for the electricity, the high speed modem and the copper line. CHOOSING to maintain my box live is how I make sales.
Keeping a box maintained and live takes an action, the action of making sure I pay my electric, highspeed and copper line bills.
I realize it takes a real mind snap to get that the act of plugging in the box insures that you will make a random number of sales per month to a whole bunch of different phone companies looking for the cheapest connection toll in your area. (cont. next post)
That's what we VoiParty members sell- the cheapest connection fees.
It happens within an entirely automated system where the customers have already agreed to pay the lowest rate.
A central computer system called Least Cost Routing first detects each long distance call as to where and when it originates, where it is headed. It then scans the vendor bids for where that call needs to be connected and swithches the call through the lowest bidder's lines.
If it just so happens that there's a VoiParty box near where that call is going to be connected then that member's box is going to make the sale because VoiParty is going to be the lowest cost bidder by far. (cont. next post)
No other inter-exchange carrier can compete with VoiParty's indoor digitial telephone model where each member pays the maintainence fees because they are all outdoor pole and wire based delivery systems that they must carry the costs on.
OK if you have to keep telling your readers that they'd better beware of something that's never been done before. That's OK. Everyone has to decide what their own risk tolerence is anyway.
The thing I object to is placing it under the title SCAM ALERT. It may be new and it may be different but no one is trying to scam anybody… deliberately or by default of ignorance. (cont. next post)
Way back at the beginning of the original thread on this topic you sang the praises of Scott Warren as being a very together MLM lawyer.
Yes, VoiParty is a different kind of business than anyone has ever seen before but if Scott is leading the legal team then that would indicate to me that he believes this can be done.
I do appreciate the healthy debate that we've been having as it has allowed me to go into enough detail to communicate how different this is from anything that has ever come before.
Making automated sales to a central computer that has been programmed to find the lowest price to deliver a call for all the big phone companies is pure genius and so outside the box that it challenges everyone to see that we now have something that's broken the mold.
Work smart, not hard. Plug in a box and get paid. Invite others to do the same and get paid more.
Energetic, early adopters are coridally invited to get on board early. More conservative lay back and watch types are cordially invited to come in whenever they feel comfortable enough.
BigPicView,
I did not sign his praises, I said I did not see his fingerprints in this project. And that I respected him as an attorney. That is a far cry from signing his praises. Kevin Thompson, I sign his praises, but not Scott.
But, I still stand by my concerns. Attorney's are paid on both end of a debate, I a not paid by anyone to voice my concerns.
BigPicView,
If this is your opinion, unless there is valid test results done by a third party to prove it.
BigPicView,
Can you provide 3rd party data to prove VioParty has the cheapest prices? And history has proven cheapest never means the best.
I mean exactly what I said. The distributors (members of the party) are not selling anything to anyone outside the compensation plan. The "BigGuys" are customers of VoiParty, not the customers of the "members."
So I still have to stand by my concerns. The boxes are provided by VoiParty (Sold) to the member's. The software is OWNED by VoiParty, and so are the servers. I have yet to see where the party members are anything but a conduit for the company. Again, no outside sales being done by the member's to anyone outside of the compensation plan.
Time will tell.
Point 3.- Troy, you wouldn't expect KFC to show you the Colonel's secret spice recipe just because you asked, would you? What company in their right mind would reveal their trade secrets when they are just about to transform an industry?
Besides, I can't show you the beta test results because I'm not privy to them but I have no reason to believe that they haven't been established. Why would a company go to the effort and expense of launching this particular business model if they didn't have the central computer and servers dialed in and ready to manage the system?
After 4 months of studying what has been laid out in the VoiParty vision I have nothing but great admiration and respect for Joe Machado, Ciro Martinez, Paul Jorgensen, Joe Lopez and all the other corporate team members.
These guys have spent a ton of money getting this ready to fly and they are going to carry the costs until it becomes self sustaining. This is not a frivolous endeavor. (cont. next post)
BigPicView,
The beta test view is not for me. This is what the Regulators will demand to see, for the company to prove where the money comes from to pay commissions. It will also be demanded if there is ever a class action suit because the company can't meet projections or changes the compensation plan.