This top VoiParty distributor wrote an excellent response to the MLM Scam Alert we published back in January on VoiParty. Although our stance has not changed, I respect this leader, and his ability to share with the world what he feels is a very powerful business model and MLM opportunity.
I will be putting specific video’s inside of his letter where I have responded to help both the reader, and to explain my points in more detail.
Being a VoiParty member now for over two months and someone who has made it their business to learn as much as they possibly could about who is behind the company and what the down range plans are I can tell you that you’ve jumped to a lot of shortsighted conclusions and instead of seeking more information directly from the company which would be the professional thing to do in such a situation, you have instead engaged in irresponsible journalism.
Troy’s Response: How could I have “jumped to conclusions” when all I did was use the verbiage off the companies official website? See what I did is exactly what the FTC and AG’s do when they launch an investigation. However, all I did was issue a Scam Alert. Just as you expect professional journalism, I expect a company to promote themselves in a professional manner.
I can’t in good conscience let that stand in a public forum without presenting another viewpoint informed by proper due diligence.
Troy’s Response: I respect your position.
I do appreciate your pointing out the improper use of the word “investment” and I will implore the principles to strike it from any appearances in print and re-record any presentations where that word may have been used.
The problem is that the word means something different in general usage than it does within law but in matters of law no general usage is acknowledged as law gains its force by not allowing for any ambiguity.
Troy’s Response: I respectfully disagree. An investment always has, and always will mean money. Yep, it also means other things. But when a business is promoting the opportunity, it a foregone conclusion when the word INVESTMENT is used, money is involved.
You and I both know that the word ‘investment’ in VoiParty presentations has been used in the casual sense of committing time and money to an endeavor in hopes of earning something back for one’s efforts. Case in point about common usage is that in last week’s State of the Union Address, Obama said we need to ‘invest’ in green and sustainable technologies.
Troy’s Response: I will agree that it very well can also include these things, but I still believe the FTC and AGs will see MONEY as the investment. In all my years in business, I have never seen a company present their opportunity, and tell folks, “we want you to invest everything BUT your money.”
No one has ever been presented with the solicitation of a regulated security in VoiParty; that’s ridiculous of course, and yet the AGs and the FTC could pounce if they wanted to because in their domain that word has a legal definition so you are right that Voiparty should tighten up their act.
Troy’s Response: I do not believe I may any reference to a regulated security, or a non-regulated security for that matter.
The only other thing that you were right about is this statement you made in a comment, “Based on the limited information available…”
Troy’s Response: That is correct. All of our info is based on the companies official website, which at best has limited information, which in and of itself violates Florida laws, let alone the FTC, SEC and 49 other state laws.
That’s it Troy, everything you said in your video and your written comments was based on “limited information available” but instead of contacting the company with your concerns and asking to be filled in on the information that was missing so you could produce an intelligent report based on all the data, you instead whipped up a SCAM ALERT.
Troy’s Response: It is the public information available to the public off the website, which is the first place most people go to find out about an opportunity, once they have talked to a rep. When a company website does not provide the basic information, this is red flag. If a company corrects their site, then we talk about that. In this case, they have put the P&Ps on the site, which is a start. Let’s take a look at one of the videos to give the readers a first hand perspective.
Tsk tsk tsk. Shame on you for stirring things up instead of finding things out.
Let me address some of your specific points:
I will tell you this Troy, when I had the same questions as you as to who was behind this, all I had to do is call the company and ask, and I was sent the bios of all the principles. Very impressive by the way.
Troy’s Response: I already know who is behind the company. My statement is the fact it is not listed on the site. This is a basic rule when offering a business opportunity.
The policies and procedures are available during the signup process. They are not “missing.” You don’t see them during the VIP invitation-only prelaunch because you need an invitation code from a sponsor to enter the area of the website where they’re located.
Troy’s Response: Now they are available on the bottom of the website. The laws state people must have an opportunity to read them “before” signing up, not during the process.
The website that you’ve combed looking for “incriminating” items to fuel your controversy creating SCAM ALERT is a temp site up to get launched with. It’s being totally redone.
Troy’s Response” Incriminating is a good word to use. But the excuse of “temp site” has nothing to do with current law. When a company decided to offer a business opportunity, the basic information must be available… even on a temp site.
I don’t know if Scott Warren is their attorney or not but instead of ranting that you don’t see his “signature” on any of the VoiParty materials why don’t you lift the phone and call him and find out? That just seems so obvious. You say you know him, what’s stopping you from calling?
Troy’s Response: Again, this is an assumption on your part. Word was put out to Scott, and we never heard back.
You are presenting yourself here as a responsible professional, aren’t you? In my opinion you fell below standard here when you opened mouth before engaging brain.
That’s OK, we all make mistakes once in a while but I think the right thing to do here would be to make a retraction until you got the right info to either back up your warnings or move the article over to your hot MLMs section.
Troy’s Response: Responsible professional is a subjective term, so I can’t answer that question. However, based on current law, I did raise important questions, which deserve direct answers on the website. If the questions are answered in a manner, which places the company in compliance based on current regulations, you bet I will move them. However, based on what is public info, they stay where they are.
Which is not to say that I don’t agree with you on the careless use of the word “investment”, I do. But the other stuff? There is definitely a printed copy of the comp plan available and as I stated above, the policies and procedures doc.
Troy’s Response: Think about this from my perspective for a second. If they are careless in one area, how am I to know they are not in others? Prime example… in their video they state (based on fear of loss marketing) they state… “Limited positions available in specific territories… the party will be closing soon.” The FTC will snag this ASAP because if you are running a matrix compensation plan, and state, limited positions, closing soon, this means someone at the bottom of the matrix can’t earn their money back, because they can’t recruit. Let’s share another video from the website for perspective.
Why does VoiParty want a special designation from the FTC? Because they are doing something different than has ever been done.
Troy’s Response: No they are not… Their words are plain as day… We are a network marketing company. They are a direct selling company using a MLM compensation structure. This profession is 70 years old, the FTC doesn’t give out exceptions. By the way, neither does the state of Florida, which is where the exception would have to come from.
VoiParty IS a horse of a different color because there are a limited amount of boxes to be placed and then that’s it (until worldwide expansion starts anyway). If there’s a sense of urgency created by knowing that there are only so many seats on the train what’s the problem with telling people the scoop that if ya snooze ya lose could be your reality? It’s a fact that there will only be so many needed in each area code. What’s better? Telling people now or waiting until later when they are all taken and then announcing no more?
Troy’s Response: Thank you for validating my argument “limited amount”. Remember the Scam Alerts are based on current laws, and historical rulings.
If the company forces the matrix by giving a member a customer who comes in via the national marketing campaign then what’s the problem with them saying there’s no membership bonus to be paid on those members? The VoiParty rep receiving the new person didn’t do any work to recruit them so why should they be paid for something they didn’t put any effort into? Isn’t it enough that the new person fills a hole in their matrix and counts towards maximizing their monthly residual income? That’s a nice gift. And it’s not like the company is pocketing “your” money. Don’t you think they deserve to recover some of the expenses of mounting a national media campaign?
Troy’s Responses: Based on the videos, everyone is in the matrix. For any MLM compensation plan to be legit, there has to be customers brought to the company, whereby the distributors earn income which are outside of the compensation structure. Based on your explanation above, the company places the “customer” inside the compensation plan, and they hold the sponsorship. If this is incorrect please correct me. Let’s take a look at the compensation structure. Maybe the readers will agree with you and the company, that this is not an MLM. If that is the case, then I doubt many folks will read the article since it is on an MLM site.
They will be carrying the operating costs until the network reaches 10,000 or so boxes. Isn’t it just good business to try to reach that break even number as quickly as possible and recoup as much dinero as possible along the way to hitting that mark? If the company recruits for the rep why shouldn’t they get to keep that money by not having to pay it out to someone who did no work for it?
Troy, I can tell by your comments that you do not have an awareness of what is ultimately being accomplished with the creation of this peer to peer network and frankly, I don’t trust you enough to tell you because you’ve shown here that your angle on things is to specialize in expose’ and stirring up controversy where there is none.
Troy’s Response: You might be surprised at what I know about the P2P network and the sale of wholesale data across the VOIP lines… But, hey there is no need to explain anything to me, I have not questioned the underlying core business model.
Just please understand that you’ve taken sketchy material, that even though it is far better than a lot of companies I’ve seen have at launch, is still just placeholder material to get going with and have drawn incorrect conclusions about what this company is doing. This is not just about long distance calling at so many minutes per box but you haven’t looked beyond the surface of the temporary website.
Troy’s Response: You are 100% correct. We took what is public on the website. Again, this is exactly what the FTC and AGs do.
If you have all this experience that you state in your bio as someone who knows how to assess opportunities then why don’t you see that a company in its infancy likely won’t have all its I’s dotted and T’s crossed? Sure, the site is sketchy with limited information. It’s a pre-launch.
Troy’s Response: This is an excuse for the company. There is no excuse for violating the law. It does not matter if a company is just starting out, or is 10 years old. If they are putting distributors at risk, we will call them on it. I don’t care about the company, I care about distributors and potential distributors who are not knowledgeable on MLM laws, joining a company who doesn’t take care of the small stuff. In all my years I have never seen a company brought own because of big things, it has always been the small stuff they ignored.
This is what would make sense to me: If your mission is to want to be truly helpful to people, hence the name MLM Help Desk, you could call the VoiParty principles and give them the benefit of your expertise at a time when they could use it rather than throw your weight around here with so much bluster… but that wouldn’t get you many hits on your website though, would it?
Troy’s Responses: Again an assumption on your part that this was not done, by me or one of our team members.
Yes, I suppose you are correct in saying the sketchy stuff “raises questions” but instead of going for answers, you see fit to categorize VoiParty under your SCAM ALERT heading.
Troy’s Response: That is 100% correct. If you watch the current video we shot on what Scam Alerts are and what they are not, it should make more sense.
I assume that a lot of people listen to you and look up to you, Troy. Don’t you feel that you owe them the straight scoop on things derived from careful research rather than going off on a fear inducing rant?
Troy’s response: I did give the straight scoop, based on the only official place to find the information… The company website. Let’s take a look at one last video from the website. I also think this will give the readers a better understanding of the core business.
If you were coming at this from a neutral place and cared to find out the real story behind what little you can see now as VoiParty comes out of pre-launch you would discover a truly epic adventure of a company and a team of professionals about to transform an industry on a level every bit as remarkable as what digital cameras did to the chemical film and camera industry.
Troy’s Response: I am never neutral. I am always on the side of protecting distributors from the lack of information. There is no such thing as pre-launch in the eyes of the law. When a company places a website live, it has to be in compliance.
I can assure you that this is not a pyramid based all on recruiting and no sales. You don’t have a clue about what’s coming in terms of revenue producing products and services. But step one is to create the network of “indoor telephone poles” as a delivery conduit. VoiParty needs to create the alternative digital infrastructure to the currently dominant pole and wire system as a first step and then its Katie bar the door. The peer to peer network is the foundation for something much, much bigger.
Troy’s Response: Based on the videos produced by the company, this would fall in the category of a pyramid scheme, it does not matter what might be coming. All that matters is what is current and live now. You seem to be going after the messenger, instead of realizing case law is already set.
For those who get what’s happening here and on what scale, there are going to be some very happy smiling people who were the pioneers who said yes to giving a connection box a good home on their desktops. It’s likely that more millionaires will be created through the VoiParty comp plan that those that have been created through Microsoft and Apple combined.
You think there’s very little money here? Well you’d be right IF projected incomes were based only upon the numbers you’re looking at (10,000 boxes and $280K etc.) but what you don’t get is that the wholesale long distance market is just the entry point by which VoiParty can establish something much more versatile and utilitarian. There must be some good reason why Cisco’s Link Sys department has agreed that for the next 90 days only VoiParty will get every connection box that comes off the assembly line, doncha think? Explosive growth maybe?
This endeavor is analogous in scale to the building of the intercontinental railway back in the 1800’s that created a way to travel from coast to coast for the very first time. It was a quantum leap in comfort, safety and speed beyond the wagon train, stage coach, mule train technology and digital indoor telephone poles are a quantum leap in cost, efficiency and versatility beyond the pole and wire infrastructure. The poles and wires are dinosaurs that are not going to be made extinct by a comet but by a little digital router that’s been the proven workhorse of the industry for over 10 years but now in the service of an entirely different vision, a vision that will bring a new future into focus.
1.3 million indoor telephone poles strategically situated will create a network that will not only offer an integral and essential service that’s 300-400% less expensive on long distance delivery than is currently the norm, it will show the world something that it’s never seen before, something very lucrative for VoiParty members and I’ll just leave it at that for now.
But here’s a clue:
I challenge you to name a network marketing or direct sales company that has ever done what VoiParty is doing- monetizing the endeavor on money being spent by people who are NOT in the company and who don’t even know or need to know that VoiParty even exists.
VoiParty has no need to care about customer acquisition and retention and VoiParty reps have no need to sell anything. No one has to be convinced of a need for our product, no one has to make a buying decision or a behavior change. Everyone just goes about their daily lives as they always have and VoiParty members get paid.
When have you ever seen a company with a business model that financially advantages peoples existing habits without disturbing them whatsoever and seamlessly integrates with the existing distribution system in one of largest utilities there is?
Now THAT is totally newsworthy and remarkable, Troy. You’re missing the real story here.
This is so far outside the box that most people don’t get it unless they apply themselves with the desire to look past first impressions and comparisons to Vonage or Magic Jack etc. so don’t feel bad if you didn’t see it yet, Troy. But if you back off your vigilante stance and sincerely desire to be shown the big picture you’ll see this really is an epic adventure.
A year from now we will all look back and see that an upstart, relative unknown pulled off a David and Goliath type triumph and will have AT&T singing their praises for doing something the top dog giant could not do with the weight of its giant pole and wire infrastructure dragging on its operating expenses. And VoiParty is actually going to save At&T (and all the other ‘bigs”) tens of millions in wholesale minute routing costs in the process.
That’s amazing when a new “competitor” entering a marketplace helps the other players’ bottom lines instead of taking market share FROM them. Kinda makes ya go hmmm…..
What VoiParty is bringing to the table is nothing less than industry wide transformation… just like that digital camera changed the photography industry overnight. It’s that big, bigger even because no end users have to get involved with choosing to purchase any special dojiggys.
Everybody just picks up the phone and dials like they always did but the calls are routed through the VoiParty indoor digital network instead of the old pole and wire system. And the big deal is they are 300%-400% cheaper to deliver. Everybody wins.
Now THAT’s newsworthy and remarkable, wouldn’t you say?
Troy’s Response: Excellent recruiting presentation and I am leaving it in this response. As for your challenge, Peer pressure was never a weakness. My article is not on comparing MLM companies, it is on VoiParty getting into compliance.
So let me just say to all the people who you may have scared off with your “watch out for a scam” stance Troy, thank you in advance for your business because every time you make a long distance call to a land line or business, we VoiParty members are going to get paid on your calls. That’s a fact.
Troy, in closing I would invite you to take another look at VoiParty from the perspective of what might be remarkable about it rather than calling it a possible scam for what isn’t in perfect order right out of the gate. You’ve seen enough start ups to know that it’s typical that not everything is dialed in at the beginning and there will be adjustments needed as the business unfolds.
There’s nothing to sound the alarm here about, my friend. It’s just start up time, that’s all. What’s the worst that can happen to someone who joins VoiParty? That they get free long distance for life with 18 premium telephony features for about 10 months worth of what they’re paying for monthly service now? Is that so bad?
Troy’s Response: Sounds like the democrats before 9/11. When a company is out of compliance in the small issues, there is always a reason to raise the red flags. Again, my only concern is giving an Eagle’s Eye view from someone who is not monetarily connected to the company to potential distributors. Plus, if I’m right and you’re wrong. The company will never be able to use the excuse… We didn’t know, leaving a class action lawsuit by the distributors as an avenue to collect back some of their money.
Troy, do the right thing. Call the company and get to know the people and feel who they are. Hell, travel over there to FL and see the operation with your own eyes. There’s a real story here far more deserving of your writing talents than being relegated to the SCAM ALERT bin. Joe and Ciro and Paul are very open to showing everything… except the proprietary intellectual property of course. 🙂
Troy’s Response: Again, an assumption we have not reached out.
This would be a chance to change history for you because let’s just say that VoiParty does exactly what they say they will. Your warning video will look pretty off base in light of that. Have you seen the replay of financial guru, Jim Cramer telling everyone that Bear Stearns was just as strong as ever and to ignore the rumors of trouble just a day before they went bankrupt and started the Wall Street meltdown?
Troy’s Response: Fantastic rebuttal from someone who is truly an advocate for VoiParty. It is this type of commitment, which will make you a good leader in the company.