May 23, 2013 13:25

Breaking Zeek Rewards Alert: BidiFy Affiliate Todd Hirsch Claims Troy Dooly Going to Federal Prison as Top Promoter of Zeek Rewards

Sep 3 2012 in Bidify, MLM News, Paul Burks, Zeek Rewards News, Zeekler, ZeekRewards by Troy Dooly

Todd Hirsch, who states he is one of the top BidiFy affiliates, shot a video this week claiming after doing his due diligence that I will be going to federal prison for knowing Zeek Rewards was a ponzi. Well first of all we live in America and all citizens, have the right to share their opinions, I figured I would help him get the message out.

Now several points Todd makes are 100% false, so I will focus on those, and the rest of his video you have decide on your own.

Todd Hirsch

1. Hirsch claims I was a top promoter of Zeek Rewards. Since I do not fully know how he is using the word “promoter” I am not sure if he is referring that I covered Zeek Rewards more than any other journalist in network marketing, which is true. Or if he is using the word “promoter” as it is defined inside of the Ponzi laws, which in that is false.

I have never held any position inside of Rex Venture Group, Zeek Rewards or Zeekler Penny Auctions as a member, affiliates, employee, customer, or executive. And in thousands of private emails and public comments, not once did I ever direct anyone to join Zeek. I did shoot a video, where I was clear if Zeek Rewards, Co2 Rewards and DubLi Network were the last three MLM companies in the world, I would join DubLi Network because one of my long time mentors and friends is the Senior Director of Sales.

2. Hirsch claims I knew Zeek Rewards was a ponzi from day one. Well if you search this site or YouTube you will see where in Dec 2011, I called out several red flags in Zeek Rewards. Never did I claim it was a ponzi, nor do I believe it was a ponzi when it was shut down. I do without a doubt believe it could be called a pyramid based on the amount of money following from affiliates .vs the amount of outside sales from folks not in the compensation plan.

This is not new news, but I am sure Hirsch has just been busy building his BidiFy business, which was the #1 competitor to Zeek until August 17, 2012. From April of 2012, until the closure of Rex Venture Group, I was a driving force in adding the qualifiers needed to make sure the RPP was well inside the laws governing direct selling companies. Those qualifiers would have been 2,4,6,8,10 customers to 1 affiliates depending on the point balance.

Take those qualifiers and add them to experts far smarter than I, like the legal, compliance and compensation consultants and you will quickly find all of us, not just me, do not believe Zeek Rewards was a ponzi.

However, I will state that many people including Todd Hircsh (as he states in his video) did promote Zeek Rewards as a ponzi scheme. These are the folks the regulators call “promoters” and will be clawing-back funds and may possibility go after in criminal charges if they find they are part of a larger international organization. Although Todd Hirsch admits he is on the way out of the country to the Philippines, I am sure that has to do with BidiFy not Zeek.

3. Hirsch mentions I am under investigation. When an investigation is going on, and it is criminal, then law enforcement doesn’t go around telling folks an investigation is happening. However, regulators do come to this community and monitor what I am others write and say. And I am sure they have collected many editorials, comments and videos to review on Zeek Rewards and other penny auctions.

And just like Zeek, I cover all companies the same. BidiFy had some of the same red flags and we have covered them. As they made changes we reported on those changes. We have covered Bids That Give and in the near future will cover other companies. Some I am sure will have red flags and some may not.

I do believe BidiFy has made the right moves to correct any part of the compensation plan that could come into question by the SEC. These changes take away any idea of “profit pool” aka “revenue share” that could illegally be promoted as an investment and lead to the same ponzi allegations Zeek Rewards and other Penny Auctions may face.

Todd Hircsh and I have never met to my knowledge, but in listening to his video I am convinced he is an expert in Ponzi Schemes, which I am not.

The video he mentions is one I did last week, after receiving thousands of emails from folks across the globe wanting to know which penny auction or ponzi scheme they should join.

Some have questioned why I would include a client (BidiFy) and a company UPP (Ultimate Power Profits) who had already removed their penny auction component.

I included BidiFy, because some of these folks through their emails were folks like Todd Hircsh who are looking for any company that pays, and did not care if they hurt the company or not. Since BidiFy is a client, I do not want those folks going to a company and hurting the affiliates who are there trying to build a business. Especially with what we just saw happen at Zeek.

I included UPP because when it was launched it was launched promoting a penny auction and how the compensation would be much better than any other company. Many of the original affiliates were drawn there for the compensation structure attached to the penny auction business model.

This week I will do individual reviews on these two companies to show how their new compensation structures or business focus could provide a nice online income opportunity for folks, but will not be near as attractive to folks who invest in ponzi schemes.

Living An Epic Adventure,
Troy

Troy Dooly

Troy Dooly is recognized internationally as an influencer in the areas of personal branding, leadership development, marketing campaigns, organizational expansion, and corporate launch strategies. Dooly is a speaker, results coach, and radio host. He is a founding member, show host (Beachside CEO) and News Director of the Home Business Radio Network. He is a founding member, and currently serves on the Board of the Association of Network Marketing Professionals

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166 Comments »

  • tirekingone

    Hello Troy what do you think about the new penny auction bidwithintergity bwisignup. com/atwoodel That is going to launch soon?

    • Troy Dooly

      @tirekingone,

      I have not reviewed any of them.

    • stevetruong

      I am beginning to think this Dooly is an idiot now.

      • Troy Dooly

        @Stevetruong,

        Well please explain. Writing one short sentence doesn’t really ad value or explain your opinion.

        • Jay Bartels

          Why would anyone take this babbling idiot from Bidify seriously. He’s obviously upset that he doesn’t get enough attention.

  • Sam Cleaver

    What a Slime ball. Hirsch says he knew Zeek was a Ponzi Scheme and he joined and recruited people in it. All he cares is if he got paid. I wouldn’t want to be associated with that kind of a “leader”. BidiFy should distance themselves from Hirsch as well. Again, what a douche!

    • http://TheBlakestersMadness.com Robert

      He isnt a leader he is a slug!

    • Nate

      Much agreed this Todd Hirsch seems like an envious person just bad mouthing a company that was out doing Bidify.

      The owner just made some changes so his company wouldn’t draw flags to it. So it goes to show both companies were doing the same thing but Zeek Rewards was the 1st to be investigated.

      Todd just sounds childish and to be honest I liked Zeek Rewards so much I was looking towards joining Bidify. But if you have people like Todd I don’t want to be involved with a company that gets off on bad mouthing Zeek Rewards,Troy Dooly or any other company/person.

      Many people lost out on Zeek Rewards and you were a part of it and knew that Zeek Rewards was supposedly a ponzi scheme then you were apart of the crime because you knew and made money from others and then left before the water got HOT. Thats if thats what was going on with Zeek Rewards.

      Im very surprised Todd is the biggest part of Bidify since he likes sitting around blasting others, you have to be professional. And a true professional would have just quietly offered memberships to Bidify and proven that bidify was ran by professionals and is a good company.

      To get RESPECT you got to give it and you have shown NO RESPECT towards a big company and those who lost their money and lively hood. And not to mention NO RESPECT towards Troy Dooly. Thats a BAD business move, cause you not only made yourself look stupid but you also turned off potential affiliates from joining Bidify from ZEEK REWARDS.

      If I were the owner of Bidify I would cut you off before you miss represent Bidify in a different way. Your nothing but a Punk with alot of money running your mouth. I would shut it before someone does it for you. So RESPECT others so others will RESPECT you and Bidify, before someone DISRESPECTS you in a way you will not like. So worry about yourself and what you are doing, besides BAD MOUTHING others.

      • Jay Bartels

        I totally agree with you. This guy is totally off the hook.

  • ScottM

    Ha ha…is that the best this Todd guy can do? Sorry wasted my time listening to it. He’s just promoting his new business…cant remember the name?…some ponzi thing they tried to fix after Zeek got shut down…it’ll come to me…

  • Glen Mettem

    Bidify is a con, they took all our money and gave us nothing, the owner is a asshole. Try get your money out of the system,oh they don’t pay.Towah is a joke, run far away from this company and when I here the owner is doing the right thing, what a joke that just make me sick.

    • Glen Mettem

      YOU NEED TO REPORT ON WHAT BIDIFY HAS DONE TO PEOPLE BY RIPPING THEM OFF AND GIVING THEM NOTHING FOR THEIR MONEY.
      I KNOW PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOST UPWARDS OF 25,000 EURO
      SOME PEOPLE HAD 2 ACCOUNTS YES 50,000 EURO, WHAT DID THEY GET FOR THAT MONEY
      NOTHING YES NOTHING
      AND YOU AS A COMPANY IS WORK WITH THIS FUCKING ASSHOLE.
      YOU NEED TO LOOK INTO WHAT THIS COMPANY HAS DONE WITH THE PEOPLES MONEY AS THEY DID NOT PAY ANY COMM OUT AS THEY WIPED THE PROFIT SHARING OUT
      TROY NEEDS TO READ THIS.

      • Troy Dooly

        @Glenn,

        You will need to provide documented facts that I can take to Frode. He has been very good as answering every email I have sent him and working through every situation we uncover.

        Send to TroyDooly@MLMHelpDesk.com

    • Byron

      Glen, it’s obvious your sky has fallen and you are spaced out! Let me help you come back to earth.

      Bidify didn’t take your money and give you nothing. You made a purchase of a product, gave it away to customers which left you nothing. Then you earned the next day bought product and decided to give that away too. Even the day before they locked the system you earned, bought, then gave away, so you had no money in Bidify.

      But there is a glimmer of hope for you lost souls wondering around on the internet making false claims, even though deep down inside you are mad at yourself.

      Bidify grandfathered all reps in before the comp plan change.

      Grandfathers reps get a Special Bonus every week paid to their Cash Account based on Bidsson revenue.

      Money in Cash Account can be sent to Towah and loaded on Master card.

      If you don’t know this, it is your responsibility.

      • Kay Leigh

        Glen and Troy, I am currently trying to get my buy in back from Bidify. Please explain, if they based their business model on Zeek then they too were an illegal ponzi scheme!!! Just because they completely modified the business does not mean that their intentions have changed!!! I want out and if they are a genuine company, why don’t they have a way to allow people to get out with only their original buy in? Yes they had a no refund policy but I clicked that under different terms!!! Those terms now have changed and yes they do allow for ‘change’ in their terms and conditions but did they allow for their role model competitor to be deemed ILLEGAL so as to change the numbers so much that I just feel sick to the pit of my stomach for joining. I have lost money in Zeek and can’t get out of Bidify!! If they can allow new affiliates to ‘acquire/ take over’ existing accounts then I would be a happy camper. What can we do? (Just read some more post) Yes I purchased bids but like I said before the whole thing was based on something illegal so all bets are off! I don’t want anything to do with this company if they were not doing the same as Zeek such as faking the numbers then why have my returns changed so much?? @Byron please be my guest and buy me out at my original buy in… Anyone?

        • Troy Dooly

          @Kay,

          When they launched their comp plan was similar to Zeek, in the fact it had a profit pool. They have since made huge changes and the profit pool is gone from what we see on the website and from what Frode has told me personally.

          • Kay Leigh

            Yes but is that fair to people who signed up especially for that and now that has gone! So it began as a con. When I started showing people they immediately said it was a pyramid/ponzi so how could you not think that. To go on endorsing bid you are misleading people and you did that with Zeek as well.

          • Troy Dooly

            @Kay Leigh,

            Not sure what you feel I am endorsing? In the video above Todd is talking about a video I did where I warned folks away from ALL MLM Penny Auctions. But, this is America and folks are entitled to join any company there so desire.

            I am also continuing to cover ALL companies and will report what we find.

            Please explain what you feel I am endorsing?

  • Glen Mettem

    YOU TOOK THAT DOWN QUICK,
    YOU STICK UP FOR THE ASSHOLES WHO RIP PEOPLE OFF BY TAKING THERE MONEY AND GIVING THEM NOTHING BACK FOR WHAT THEY PUT INTO THE SYSTEM.
    WHAT A JOKE.
    Bidify is a con.
    What he has done to people by taking their money and giving them nothing back, he needs a bullet in his head, the peice of shit low life.

    • Troy Dooly

      @Glen,

      Took down what?

    • gen3benz

      Lower your voice, its hurting my ears….xD
      Cry baby cry, you win some you lose some. It’s your own fault.

  • meir peleg

    troy, but you admited here that you knew that zeekreward
    is lying to the affiliate claiming that the payment to the affiliate comes from their share in the huge profitable penny auctions. the affiliate’s deposits are not profits off the company but they must be written as liability of the company.

    • Troy Dooly

      @Meir,

      I have never admitted I knew Rex Venture Group executives were lying at all! The payments to the company are revenue that is not the question nor is that an issue with the SEC. The SEC is claiming that the RPP is an unregistered Security and by tying the Bid’s and points in the RPP together, then offering a compounding return it is illegal.

      So not sure where you got the idea I knew anyone was lying because that is false.

  • Glen Mettem

    Troy, the owner of Bidify is to smart for you, he puts you on the pay roll so you don’t say anything BAD about Bidify.
    HE HAS PULLED THE WOOL OVER YOUR EYE.
    HE IS A BIG CON, ASK HIM WHAT HE HAS DONE WITH ALL OUR MONEY? because he did not pay any money out.

    • Troy Dooly

      @Glen,

      you might want to see what we have already written on Frode and BidiFy. Although Frode does have an interesting background, we have covered that 100%.

  • Robert Ulvberget

    I think Hirsch is drunk….. really feel sad for him..

    • http://TheBlakestersMadness.com Robert

      I wouldnt feel sad for him he did it to himself by being such an idiot!

    • Patrick Mannen

      I think he sounds like he was drinking also. Don’t know what to think about him!

  • Jeremy

    Well honestly Troy, if u go to jail for promoting zeek, then i guess 1.8 million other people including myself will go to jail too. I will fully admit that I promoted zeek. On a daily basis. Maybe people looking for work should join the CIA since they will need more agents to investigate nearly 2 million for promoting a so-called “ponzi”. See u in the slammer troy. I will save u a seat at lunch…

  • Calamity Jane

    Troy, You are such a class act!

    This guy is off his rocker!

  • http://TheBlakestersMadness.com Robert

    Troy thanks for all you do Todd Hirsh is a freaking SLUG! Always has been and always will be! He is pathetic listening to his Bullshit makes me want to throw up! Hope fully he goes to the Phillipinnes and is never seen again that will be too soon when that happens! What a joke he is making himself out to be. If people didn’t know he was an idiot before they know it now. Thanks Troy!

  • Rick Hagar

    Anyone that joins any of these money games is either incompotent or a slime ball. They are money games pure and simple, no matter how you tweak or dress it up and they ARE NOT legitimate network marketing companies.

    Look at the industry’s 60 year history and get a clue. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Zeek was a scam, and was shut down. Now people want to jump into similar scams? I hope they all go to jail because they are polluting an otherwise wonderful industry.

    Have a nice day!

    • Troy Dooly

      @Rick,

      It is always a privilege when you are able to take time away from growing your business Rick and sharing. Thank you sir for adding some solid value.

  • http://www.tchwebworks.com Todd Hirsch

    I did not need extra views for the video Troy. I have made videos with 50,000+ views with no help.

    I never said I promoted Zeek as a “ponzi”

    I said that I thought that it was, and I told others that I think that is is a ponzi. I had a small downline in Zeek and I made less than $10,000 in Zeek. So the SEC has no reason to come after me.

    I also did not say I have the “biggest team in Bidify” I said I have “one of the biggest teams” My team is about the 3rd biggest team and I am the #4 top recruiter.

    You miss quoted me a lot of times in your video.

    You made over $20,000 from ZR so you should be worried about the SEC.

    • Troy Dooly

      @Todd,

      Thank you again for sharing!

    • Sam Cleaver

      You stated that you knew that it was a ponzi, yet you still promoted it. All you cared about was that you got paid.

      • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

        I never really “promoted” Zeek.. me and a few friends joined it together!

        Get it RIGHT!

        No matter what any negative person says about me on this page.. I know that I never scam people or lie to them…. anyone that joins ANYTHING with me knows the real deal on ANYTHING I am in!

        That is the difference

  • http://www.tchwebworks.com Todd Hirsch

    I also never claimed to be a “ponzi expert” LOL..

    You are the one that claims to be a ponzi and mlm “expert”

    • matthewadams885

      Todd…I have many friends that worked with you. Using their words, “You are a lush, very greedy & immature”.

      I would not follow you out of a burning build if that was the only exit. You have ZERO integrity in my book.

      • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

        Who are your many friends?

  • http://familynetworker.com Craig Caron

    Hey Troy

    I had to laugh when I saw this video.

    look Todd is just an attention getter. I have dealt with this guy in the past and let me tell you he is one of the biggest crap starters I know.

    I have dealt with Todd a few years back. He was in a network I own called Family networker and didn’t do anything to help our network.

    The only thing he did in our network was spam everyone and we ended up kicking him out because of the dishonest tactics he was partaking in.

    He weasled himself into the X-Sky software and ruined what could have been a decent software if people were trained right on how to use it, but Todd was one of the trainers and of course it never even made it.

    After I did a review on the software he did not like that and tried bashing me on my blog along with our network.

    Then I recieved about 36 hate emails from him threatening me to telling me he was going to hurt my kids.

    He is just a punk wanting some type of recognition.

    Thanks for the video.

    You can check out our blog post here and see how much of a moron this guy is.

    http://craigcaron.com/xsky-review/

    By the way his name is not Todd hircsh.

    He likes to be called Todd Hershey Squirts Hircsh.

    • matthewadams885

      OMG! I do remember that! That was terrible…wow…that was him.

    • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

      you are such a lair and a very poor and fake person Craig

    • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

      Wow… the lies!

      I do not even know if you have kids or not!

      Why do you lie so much?

      The video I made was about what I believe to be the TRUTH. period!

      Focus on my points and what you think is the TRUTH!

      I also never lied to people about Zeek and I only had a few sign up there that also thought it “might” be a ponzi from the start also!

      I never lied to anyone and I have never “scammed” ANYONE in my life!

      The reason I worked so hard to build my team in Bidify is because I believe in company and they made a way better program that was not paying in the way Zeek did.

      I expect some to maybe take offense at the tone in my video… BUT if you focus on my points, then you will understand why I made the video and it really is what I 100% believe.

      • Jim

        The handful of people who did profit from zeekrewards will get sued for clawbacks. I can assure you any one the SEC has jurisdiction over will hear from them one day. Might not be tomorrow or next week or next month, but you will hear from them. There might have been 1.8 million affiliates, but only a handful of those people pocketed money, you will either pay that money back or have to live off the grid. Goodluck.

        • Troy Dooly

          @Jim,

          There was NOT a handful of folks who may more money than what they used to buy bids. There were hundreds of thousands of folks.

          • Jim

            I’m talking about the people who pocketed money, not the people who rolled it over to buy bids, those people didn’t know this whole thing was a scheme, if so they would have been pulling money out, not buying bids. Those people know who they are. I have seen this before many times, BIG BROTHER whether you lovem or hatem always gets the last laugh.

  • Laurie

    Hi Troy,

    Todd Hirsch….
    Isn’t this really just a negative marketing scheme for his new business? He says he’s not representing Bidify? What a JOKE!

    What Hirsch doesn’t realize is, honorable people do not falsely accuse others of doing wrong. Nor do we join the media frenzie to inflict more damage.

    To those of you that think you may follow Todd Hirsch: Do you really want to follow ANYONE, but especially Todd Hirsch, possessing such awful, ridiculous non-leadership abilities.

    My ears hurt from listening to his ignorance.

  • http://familynetworker.com Craig Caron

    By the way. Your awesome Troy

  • http://behindmlm.com Oz

    Hirsch is currently spam blocked over at BehindMLM for repeatedly attempting to publish personally abusive comments (using language not fit for republication) towards me over my views on Bidify, rather than actually address the points raised – including the blatant similarities between Bidify and Zeek when they were running their Ponzi points compensation plans side by side.

    That said the comments that were let through (prior to Hirsch’s abusive downward spiral) contradict his recent video.

    For what it’s worth Zeek Rewards was primarily shut down not only because Burks was arbitrarily making up the daily ROI % paid out every day but because 98% of the money being paid out was from new affiliates.

    I have no qualms in stating that due to the similiarities between both programs, Bidify too would have been paying out a similar ratio before they scrapped the Ponzi points compensation plan.

    It might not have been 98% but probability wise I imagine it would have been pretty close to it, hence the panic and hasty shutdown of the scheme.

    Hirsch claims he knew Zeek was a Ponzi and still promoted it. No doubt if Bidify closed tommorow (or was shut down), he’d be running around claiming he also knew Bidify was a Ponzi too.

    Here’s some linkable Hirsch quotes contradicting himself:

    1. Hirsch acknowledging Bidify and Zeek are the same (despite claiming to know Zeek was a Ponzi scheme in the recent video) – “Zeek makes huge profits on the penny auctions, the bids cost Zeek nothing and they sell a lot of them. I understand how Zeek, and Bidify make profits that fuel the pay plan.”

    http://behindmlm.com/companies/co2-rewards-review-selling-carbon-offset-units/#comment-76479

    2. Hirsch crapping on about the money he’s made/making in both programs. Something he accused all “the top MLM guys” of doing when turning a blind eye to joining Ponzi schemes – “When Zeek first launched there was a lot of people saying some similar things.. and they have paid out millions now..

    I have made some good money with Zeek also I will “PROVE” that Bidify is legit in a few weeks when I will post some HUGE payment proof.. I have already made over 1700 Euro, and still in pre launch. (2,447.57 USD)”

    http://behindmlm.com/companies/bidify-review-zeek-rewards-clone-or-something-new/#comment-70508

    Overall with Hirsch I get the picture of someone who’s frustrated their Zeek Ponzi business got shut down and Bidify pulled the plug on his other venture. No doubt he has money in the JSS (now Profit Clicking) and Banner Brokers Ponzi schemes too.

    Oh and being a self confessed “top earner” in Zeek, he’s also probably worried about claw-backs too, hence the lashing out.

    I paid no heed to the rants he left on BehindMLM and I wouldn’t take much notice of his ‘waaah they took my Ponzi away’ Youtube rants against you either.

    • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

      I never claimed to be a “top earner” in Zeek Rewards!

      You guys love to put words in my mouth.

      I was saying that Bidify was doing a REAL PROFIT SHARE from penny auction profits!

      That was the big difference between Zeek and Bidify.

      I did say I made money in Zeek, but I will not have a “claw back” because it was under $10,000

      I am NOT in JSS… however I am in Banners Broker.

      Your blog “behind MLM” calls every mlm program a SCAM and you blocked my posts there because you did not like my points!

    • Jeff B.

      Good ol’ Oz has something to say. However, I’m glad you don’t block people on your site as Oz does. You let people speak their mind, you respond, and let them make a choice. Good for you.

  • tom

    just a warning to ex zeekers….be very wary of the old ‘caring’ leaders you had in zeek that will now try and involve you with Lyonness…be wary…it has the Laggos smell about it…why would anybody even consider it when Laggos was double dipping….$40k per month zeek fee then is ‘dismissed’ shortly before the zeek collapse but not without mentioning plan b Lyonnes…it stinks…the ‘caring’ leaders you had are leading you into another hell hole…be warned

    • Byron

      I wouldn’t indict Lyoness just because Laggos gooft up on a conference call.

      Lyoness was here 9 years and $3 Billion in revenue produced last year before Laggos.

      • Troy Dooly

        I have talked to several consultants who are working with the company to fine tune it for the USA market. Hopefully the company will continue to listen, and be ready for 2013 in a big way.

  • http://www.sidcummins.biz Sid Cummins

    @ Todd,
    I have to ask Todd, had you had a few too many when you made that video or is that your normal demeanor?

    • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

      I was not drinking when I made that video.. LOL

      It was early in the morning, and the night before I might have had a few.

      I made the video out of being fed up with the crap that Troy Dooly puts out everyday on the internet.

  • http://www.tchwebworks.com Todd Hirsch

    I took the video down. I made my points.

    #1. I do believe that you knew that ZR was a ponzi from the start and many other mlm insiders knew it also

    #2. Auction bids for bidsson are a great product for Bidify

    #3. The SEC is probably going to investigate you and all the “promoting” you did for ZR

    #4. I do not trust your reviews on any mlm program anymore and many others feel the same way

    • Sam Cleaver

      Why did you take the video down? Bidify get on to ya? Your reps under you see what a slime ball you are and start leaving (they should). From your comments on your video, NO ONE should trust you anymore!

  • J P

    We are supposed to believe the credibility of this sleazy expert Todd Hirsch? Show your ugly face you stinking rat! Hiding behind your t-shirt in a video is piss poor.

    Hey Hirsch, if you want respect, you have to earn it. I for one, think your a total douche bag!

    • http://www.myxsky.com Todd Hirsch

      Thanks JP.

      If you want to see my face you can visit my blog or my Facebook page.

      I give respect when respect is due.

      I call it as I see it.

      I am not fishing for “credibility”

      My success in the mlm industry speaks for itself.

      I sleep well at night, as I know I do not lie to people and I help as many people as I can everyday. =)

      • http://realscam.com GlimDropper

        Todd, can you name me one legitimate MLM company you’ve worked in? It’s easy to pick a name out of a hat and type it but you’re a marketer and need to get the word out so give us a link.

        I can see the sort of programs you promote but I’m having a hard time finding any of the legitimate sell a real product to a real customer type MLMs which you rolled up your sleeves and put in real effort for. What am I missing?

        You’re a serial player. You knew Zeek Rewards was a ponzi because playing these games is how you make your money. I knew it was a ponzi because warning the world about people like you is sorta like a hobby. I’m not sure when you joined Zeek but you joined Biddify because you recognized the same thing in Zeek that I did, it was too close to it’s sell by date.

        I think you’re mad at Troy because in his maddeningly slow and frustratingly incomplete way he is starting to see that companies like Biddify need to scrap the ponzi point compensation plan if they want any claim to legitimacy. Your problem is that you don’t want any part of a legitimate company, your mad at Troy because he helped to take your ponzi points away.

      • Jesse Meyer

        It is people like this Todd Hirsch are the reason companies get bad names. How is this guy a “Top” MLM leader he talks unprofessional and arrogant. Sorry Todd Hirsch your opinion has no credibility at all, and you say you and “All” the other MLM leader don’t respect Troy Dooly but your the only one crying on a video hiding your face like a coward lol. Get a life buddy stop trying to boost your You Tube hits by trashing Troy.

  • Ernie

    Two Todds well i did have a lot of respect for Todd Dooly till it went from stay away from all penny auctions then a week later promoting some of them and then saying BB is a ponzi talking about doing your investigation better think you need to do a lot more on that one. Now on the other hand wonder why Todd Hirsch is going to the philippines he is definitely a complete idiot. Builds his downline for pure profit and help none of them that kind of person needs not worry about going to prison he may never make it there. Thank goodness Iam not in his lame downline. Anyway Todd Dooly have a great day

    • Troy Dooly

      Ernie,

      Thanks for sharing your thoughts on things.

      • Ernie

        sorry I meant Troy that was my mistake didnt mean to call you Todd that was a low blow my mistake sorry

        • Troy Dooly

          @Ernie,

          Lord knows I have been called worse. :)

      • Barry Anderson

        Todd Hirsch has been in so many Ponzi Schemes over the years that I believe he is a expert on Ponzi Schemes. He is currently running one with a 2×2, called cloud 2×2 which a total Ponzi. He knew tha Zeek was a total Ponzi when he was promoting it , then when Bidify opened he tried to move all his team from Zeek to Bidify when he knew that Bidify was set up the same way as Zeek.

        • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

          I JOINED ZEEK WITH A FEW FRIENDS AND WE ALL THOUGHT IT WAS A PONZI FROM THE START!

          I DID NOT REALLY EVEN PROMOTE IT!

          BIDIFY IS SET UP DIFFERENTLY THAN ZEEK WAS AND BIDIFY IS A WAY HIGHER QUALITY PROGRAM.

          CLOUD2X2 IS A REAL 2X2 MLM PROGRAM WITH GREAT PRODUCTS.

          PLEASE EDUCATE YOURSELF!

          • http://realscam.com GlimDropper

            “.,..CLOUD2X2 IS A REAL 2X2 MLM PROGRAM WITH GREAT PRODUCTS…,.”

            Cloud2x2 is a REAL cycling matrix pyramid scam that doesn’t even have a retail product for sale to anyone not involved in the comp plan.

            100% of the money used to pay affiliates comes directly from other affiliates. There is no way to earn money in Cloud2x2 without recruiting more people to pay to become part of the comp plan.

            Hell, Cloud2x2 is just as bad as PayUsForward and there’s a good reason for that. You ran both of them.

            Todd, you can pretend to be a legitimate multi level marketer on skype, but you can’t get away with it here. Cloud2x2′s comp plan is so blatantly illegal that not even Dr. Keith Laggos would endorse it.

          • Kay Leigh

            Hi Todd if you think Bidify is ‘ A WAY HIGHER QUALITY PROGRAM’ can you buy me out ? Is there a way to do this? We can discuss the figures privately..

    • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

      Ernie,

      You do not know me first of all.

      The reason I am going to the Philippines is none of your business.

      I do help my teams and my “lame downlines”

      Your comment makes no sense at all.

  • Morten

    @Troy

    What’s your logical explanation for your theories about “international Ponzi rings”? And stick to facts, please?

    “Ponzi scheme” is first of all a business model.
    * It revolves around investments, just like Zeek had in their “purchase bids” model.
    * It generates fake ROI, just like Zeek did in the “Cash available”.
    * it will usually have incentives for reinvesting the fake ROI, to prevent investors from withdrawing too much money, just like Zeek had.
    * it will also pay out ROI as real money, so people can SEE it’s willing and able to pay real money, just like Zeek did.
    * It will usually have some small external income source to make the profit look real, just like Zeek had in Zeekler and other sources.

    All that was about business models, not about people. But a “Ponzi ring” will probably have to be about people, not about business models.

    So what’s your logical explanation when you believe an international Ponzi ring came in and changed Zeek’s business model, so it became messed up?

    * Compliance, how they marketed Zeek? Did they change the business model because they called it something else?

    * How they acted? Because they recruited passive investors rather than sales people, so most of the money came from investors rather than from auctions?

    Or anything else? People usually have logical explanations for their theories, and your theory is about international Ponzi rings that makes changes to business models, out of control for the owners of the businesses.

    • Troy Dooly

      @Morten,

      I am not at all sure how to respond to your comment. You ask a specific question, then you move into talking about a Ponzi program. But I will do my best. If I do not get it right, then please work with me a little to understand.

      A Ponzi Ring would be a group of people which is why I have talked and explained several times how RICO works, and that it would not surprise me that a Grand Jury may be meeting reviewing documents to support a criminal indictment.

      However, you seem to have misunderstood something I have stated, or maybe I was not clear in explaining my meaning.

      At NO time did I state or imply a Ponzi Ring came in and changed any of Zeek’s business model. As a matter of fact I have on several occasions mentioned that Gerry Nehra and Keith Laggos changed the comp plan to make it compliant.

      I have stated that a international ponzi ring (maybe more than one) did work inside of Zeek and exploited weaknesses in the comp plan, and for sure marketed it illegally. Once such ring was can trace it roots back through ASD and other as surf companies.

      Since the laws are different overseas and worse yet some people just do not understand English very well when it is being translated, those folks could very well feel they were investing in a company, rather than joining a company. This would be illegal, unethical and outside of compliance. And based on many of the international affiliates writing to me asking for other MLMs they can invest in, I have come to a logical conclusion that a. many of the international affiliates do not understand US MLM laws, and b. That top international promoters exploited some of these folks.

      And if you watch the video I put up on Paul Burks talking to the Brazilian leaders, you see them asking that the camera be turned offed then asked about the feds and ponzi issues. Another logical conclusion that at least one organization was working inside of Zeek.

      As for passive, can’t call that one. The countries that did visit Zeekler were in some cases different than those who visited Zeek Rewards. So although passive does play a part, I did not use that in my deductions.

      And at no time did I state or imply that the business was ever out of the control of Paul Burks.

      So although I do provide some logical conclusion, since you seem to have misunderstood what I have said, then may have nothing to do with your questions.

      • Morten

        @Troy

        Quote:
        “I am not at all sure how to respond to your comment. You ask a specific question, then you move into talking about a Ponzi program.”
        **********************

        The reason why I had to give examples for how Ponzi programs work was because you repeatedly have said that you don’t know much about them. I tried to identify it as part of a business model rather than as part of people’s behaviour.

        So your theory seems to indicate “weaknesses in the compensation plan” rather than “illegal business model”?

        The “weaknesses” in question here is a Ponzi/pyramid hybrid in the very core of Zeek’s business model, the part where 90–98% of the money came in, and where the main motives for joining Zeek as affiliates were located.

        So this is first of all a communication problem, i.e. that you use different definitions than the rest of the world, if I have understood it correctly? You will identify issues like Zeek had as “weaknesses in the compensation plan”, rather than identifying the business model as a Ponzi scheme.

        But you’re right in that “Ponzi riders” will join businesses with specific weaknesses in the core of their business model, or “weaknesses in their compensation plan” as you prefer to call it. They will clearly be attracted to businesses like that, or “compensation plan flaws” as you prefer to call it.

        The best method to avoid the “Ponzi riders” is probably NOT to design business models like that in the first place, or “compensation plans” as you prefer to call it.

        • Troy Dooly

          @Morten,

          Thank you your explanation makes sense.

          I would agree at this stage of the game that I still see the compensation plan as weak, and that caused a specific behavior by some (most) in the field. I will not contest that the weakness I and others spotted and brought to the attention of Zeek leadership could have been intentional and that is why they seemed to have taken more than enough time needed to get the coding and integration completed.

          I would disagree with you that I am the only one using this terminology. We do seem to be from two different worlds, and those in my world of network marketing who like me are going over everything with a find tooth comb, do use thee words, among others.

          And you are correct I have not yet ruled it a ponzi scheme. I am waiting on a video interview with a SEC attorney that might change my mind, but until that is completed and public, or until more of the evidence can be examined I am not comfortable in stating Paul Burks or anyone close to him purposely created a Ponzi. And since even the SEC allowed him not to admit or deny that charge, I do not feel I should become the judge and jury either.

          And I do agree with you 100% that the best way to avoid the issue of a ponzi and/or weak comp plan is to have the right motive in launching a business in the first place.

          Morten, thank you for taking time to share, this is good info.

  • Mark

    Todd,
    You are definately successful at making yourself look and sound like a complete IDIOT. You are definately focused on making money on people in your downline.

  • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

    You ever read David and Goliath ?

    David wins…..

    • Troy Dooly

      @Todd,

      Did you ever read what happened to David after he won?

    • PPBlog

      Todd Hirsch wrote: “You ever read David and Goliath ?
      David wins…..”

      I responded: Ever read the sales pitch for “Andy’s Fundraising Army,” the bizarre organization Andy Bowdoin and ASD cheerleaders set set up in July 2011 to dupe his victims into turning over $500,000 to pay for his criminal defense in the ASD 1-percent-a-day Ponzi scheme?

      Here is an outtake from one of the email pitches that positioned Bowdoin as “David” and the government as “Goliath”:

      ________________________________________

      “In the Biblical Story of David & Goliath, little David, all alone, threw only one rock with a strong force and deadly aim and killed Goliath with a sharp powerful blow to the forehead.

      “And now each member of Andy’s Army can throw one rock (one contribution of up to $50), and when combined all together will become tens of thousands of these financial ‘rocks’ that are each propelled by the powerful force of Truth, and these ‘rocks’ will strike the common enemy by giving Andy’s Legal Defense Team the massive funds they need to fight and win this giant case for Andy, for ASD and for each of you. Together the combined financial force of Andy’s Army can destroy this giant nightmare and make that wonderful dream described above come true for everyone.”

      ________________________________________

      Yep. Bowdoin wanted the troops (figuratively) to stone the U.S. Secret Service and federal prosecutors with $50 rocks. Incredibly, the heroes that brought down the $119 million ASD Ponzi scheme were cast as the “common enemy.”

      Bowdoin’s now doing 78 months in federal prison. One of his principal cheerleaders was Todd Disner, later of Zeek. Imagine that.

      PPPBlog

      P.S. Disner currently is part of an effort to raise money to tangle with the SEC in the Zeek case. The judge dismissed the uber-bizarre lawsuit he and Dwight Owen Schweitzer filed against the United States for alleged misdeeds in the ASD case. Disner and Schweitzer relied in part on a purported “expert” opinion by Keith Laggos when bringing their case.

      Ever hear of him, Todd?

  • tirekingone

    I did not invest my money in Zeek i purchased bids why do people keep saying invest?

    • Morten

      @tirekingone

      The problem isn’t you, it’s all the others. All those who had VIP points connected to their purchases, and participated in the so called Daily profit share.

      The others participated in an investment program, a system where they pay money in to a company in order to earn financial gains on their investments, a gain that is related to the amount of money they have invested and reinvested (rather than from work).

      The so called profit sharing contract is comparable to an investment contract, an “unregistered security”. But if you didn’t participate in it then you were not an investor either (in that part of the business model). Since the profit sharing was false, it was a Ponzi scheme rather than a real investment.

      The other investment contract in question is the membership and the matrix. I haven’t studied that part, but it was probably a pyramid scheme.

      So if you didn’t have any expectations of financial gains and didn’t receive any, then you were clearly not an investor. But the problem is all the others, the ones who expected ROI on the money they had put in.

  • maria1965

    Hirsch sounds drunk to me!!

  • maria1965

    Hey Todd…

    Always do sober what you said you’d do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.
    Ernest Hemingway

  • B.Radison

    @ Todd,

    I looked up the definition of Duechebag…

    “An individual who has an over-inflated sense of self worth, compounded by a low level of intellegence, behaving ridiculously in front of colleagues with no sense of how moronic he appears” … And I found your photo next to the definition!

    Keep up the awesome marketing. I’m sure Bidify is impressed with your sales techniques and your downline must be dazzled with your intelligence on these matters.

    You are now my #1 online Deuchebag hero!

    • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

      funny! =)

  • B.Radison

    @ Todd,

    Hmm… In your video you absolutely claim u knew Zeek was a ponzi but you promoted it all over the internet with Empower Network.

    Then u put up another Empower Network blog telling us to Stay Away from Bidify, it’s a scam!

    Bidify Scam Report – Why You Should Stay Away From Bidify! (by Todd Hirsch)
    http://www.empowernetwork.com/adamwhiting/blog/bidify-scam-report/

    And now you’re wearing their tee-shirts, lol. What’s up brother, can’t decide what makes u the most money from day to day? I pity anyone foolish enough to follow a con artist with the I.Q. of a 5 year old.

    My guess as why you didn’t show your face in your video was so no one would see the big “L” on your forehead!

  • B.Radison

    @tirekingone,

    Yes you did purchase bids with your money.

    And the AdSurf Daily boys and others at the top took your purchase and put in straight into their pockets.

  • John

    Todd Hirsch said he knew zeek was a ponzi but he continued to promote it. I think that makes him a criminal too. We all know now that he is definitely an idiot. If I owned bidify I would dump his ass immediately.

    • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

      I joined Zeek with a few friends… and we all thought it was a ponzi from the start… that is where this thread is wrong….. I did not promote Zeek.. I joined it with a few friends.. and they only joined to “invest” and they did not promote it.

      I joined and I DO PROMOTE BIDIFY BECAUSE I SEEN IT AS A WAY BETTER PROGRAM THAN ZEEK AND THAT BIDIFY WAS NOT A PONZI LIKE ZEEK!

  • Bil

    Troy why do you think BB is a ponzi scheme. Do you have any evidence at all to back it up. Can you please share it with us. I’m currently with BB and quite happy but if you have something that we do not know about please share it.

    • Troy Dooly

      @Bill,

      If you look through these comments you will see where I just gave some more details on this specific subject.

  • http://IneedSuccess.com Greg

    This is very entertaining!! Todd Hirsch takes down his video and Troy Dooly makes a copy, so as to ensure that it stays here for all to see.

    I love it!!

    It was not a good day for Todd Hirsch and certainly not one of his finest moments.

    Keep up the great work Troy!!

    • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

      Yes… I took it off Youtube… but Troy loves it so much he downloaded it and put it back on the page… lol

      I will make a new video.. It was kinda a joke.. but if you set aside my tone… and focus on my points.. you will see that I am RIGHT.

      Everyday is a GREAT day for me. =) I am too blessed to be stressed. =)

  • DAVID

    Wow! I can’t believe I just listened to this DRUNK mumbling
    idiot, Who is this guy Todd Hirsch?

    I’m sure the dumb ass will read this, so here it goes..
    GET A LIFE LOOSER… Todd you should listen to yourself in that video.

    If I were you I would take that down asap if you want to continue hanging with your MLM hard working circle of friends before they see it and realize how much of an IDIOT you really are.

    You actually got people you love and care about involved in a PONZI scam? And you knew it was? What a scum bag, maybe your all about the money BRO.. If I was anywhere in corporate in bidify I would terminate you immediately. I hope the government watches this and puts you in jail for scamming people and knowingly selling a ponzi scam…

    • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

      I only had a few friends that joined Zeek under me. We all thought it was maybe a Ponzi,,, I never put anyone else in under me.

      So.. you are WRONG!

      I have built a huge team in Bidify because I do believe in it!

      I did take the video down.. it was kinda a joke.. but also how I really felt… Troy put my video back up on this page, after I already deleted it from Youtube.

      Thanks or your super nice and polite comments. You make yourself look great!,,,, not..

  • incomevin99

    I dont think anybody should be putting other network marketing businesses names in the same plate as Zeek Rewards. Stay on ones turf is always the saying. I dont agree with anything Hirsch is claiming, but some points he make are valid. On another note, Take a look at the history of the SEC this year. How many ponzi schemes came from network marketing businesses. Go to http://www.sec.gov. Its less likely a good MLM company wil get in trouble, thats what is so frustrating with Zeek Rewards, they were still fine tunning their biz, especially RPP. Its the Hedge funds, Investment companies, fixed income companies that run into Ponzi trouble. Not Zeekler, or Zeek Rewards. Believe me, if you worked for one of those firms on wall street, you are exposed to a whole lot more risks than network marketing. For those anti-ponzi people that blog about some network marketing businesses similar to Zeek, watch what you say on your blog, because your probably shouldnt be throwing names out like some do.

    • Morten

      @incomewin99

      quote:
      thats what is so frustrating with Zeek Rewards, they were still fine tunning their biz, especially RPP.
      ****************

      Actually, they were completely ot of tune. To make it work, they would need to
      * stop recruiting (having 1-2 million affiliates is meaningless, when the only service you have to sell is a penny auction),

      * devaluate the VIP-balances by 90% (100 old VIP point = 10 new ones), The VIP points wasn’t supported by money, not more than 10% or so, $200-$300 million in cash compared to 3 billion VIP points.

      * get rid of the daily RPP by stopping reinvestments (pay out in cash over 90 days until all points have retired). Stopping provisions related to RPP

      Then they would have to redesign membership fees, to avoid paying commissions directly related to recruitment. And then they would have to redesign the compensation plan completely, paying for customers rather than affiliates.

      Then they would need to get rid of all the scam, e.g. fake customers, multiple accounts.

      So the shutdown was actually a fine tuning. It will solve many of the issues I have mentioned here. Zeek’s management didn’t managee to solve it on their own, and neither did any of their advisors (they mostly wasted other people’s money with meaningless “compliance”, instead of real solutions).

  • Bill

    Troy I not know why you deleted my post. You mentioned that Brokers Banners is a ponzi. Can you please provide evidence so you can share it with us as I’m currently doing quite ok with BB and it sort of got me worried why you have stated that. I appreciate if you can share it with all of us.

    • Troy Dooly

      Bill,

      I am not sure what you are referring. I am not known for deleting comments unless they are personally attacking someone else in the community or just spam.

      I double checked your IP Address and you have not made any other posts from your current IP Address.

      I have covered BB in a couple of editorials and throughout the comments. I responded just last night giving a little more details.

      I may do an editorial next week, but right now BB has not attracted many networkers so I have not covered it much.

  • http://www.jensholvoet.com Jens Holvoet

    Tod, if you knew that those %’s were fake and were still recruiting people, you should join Burks in prison. There you said it: you KNEW it.

  • Bill

    sorry Troy I placed the comment on my work computer which is why it is a different IP address. In relation to BB then you do not have whole the facts then. Is that what you are saying?

  • Bill

    Troy are you telling me then you do not have all the facts then? Sorry mate as i hate to lose money on BB

    • Troy Dooly

      @Bill,

      Not sure exactly what facts you are referring. Where there a specific set of facts you wanted? If it is about a specific investigation, those facts are not public usually until a regulatory agency moves in on a specific company.

      But if I missed your question feel free to rephrase it.

  • http://www.ververevolution.com matthewadams885

    Troy…you are a MUCH more patient man than I. I listened to Todd…he is an idiot. So tell me WHY did he keep repeating himself through out the video?

    Todd Hircsh needs to get himself out of his parents basement and move on. Wow.

    • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

      funny…. you must live in your parents basement… I live in paradise… =)

      I repeated mt points in the video for people like you that need to be reminded of my points.

      Why don’t you try to debate my points?? ohhh.. I know why… you have no real understanding of what I was even talking about….

  • http://craigcaron.com Craig Caron

    WTH is going on.

    Where the hell do you guys get that Todd is a leader in the MLM industry.

    I know this guy and his tactics. I know for a fact this guy isn’t leading nothing in the industry.

    This guy Todd is not on any leaderboards in Bidify or anything else.

    His claims of being #4 in Bidify is just out right bull.

    The guy doesn’t even know a thing about how to treat people,talk to people or marketing period.

    Like I said this guy weasled his way and convinced the developer of XSky that he was this top notch marketer.

    The guy is a joke. Have you seen how many people left XSky because of him. He ruined it.

    The affiliates they had in Xsky is how he even got people to join his ponzi scams.

    Look. How can anyone be a leader the way he acts.

    This guy is definitely not a leader of any kind. He has always been a scammer since I have known him.

    He joined our network and we saw right through him and kicked him out.

    I would suggest you all do the same.

    All this guy knows how to do is talk crap and try to convince others how he is the best.

    Todds been scamming people for years.

    The best he can even reply to me is calling me a crack head. The dude is a joke.

    We all laugh at him at Family Networker just because the way he carries himself.

    Do you think anyone who carries himself like that has any success. Hell no.

    I mean listen to his video. All he does is repeat how Troy Dooley is going to jail and repeats how Troy is a joke.

    I mean the video doesn’t even make sense.

    One thing about Todd is when he studders he lies.

    He can’t even show his face. he has to hide behind his computer.

    Todd is just a keyboard commando.

    Thats it. lol

    • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

      I can prove that I am the #4 top recruiter in Bidify.

      Everything you say has no proof and you are the one coming here just to get some attention.

      I atleast have the BALLS to speak my mind and I do not care what the negative people think.

      I am a way bigger builder and leader than you will ever be.

      Please get a life Craig….

      • http://craigcaron.com Craig Caron

        Dude your just a joke. You always been full of crap and always try scamming people but people are not dumb.

        Funny how everyone I run into thinks your a joke too. lol

        Dude if your #4 recruiter would love to see some proof but I know for a fact your not.

        I think you need a life and start presenting yourself better rather than trying to prove how much money you make because people see right through your bull crap.

        Everyone knows your a weasle

        • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

          You can see my username xsky in the back office in bidify on the leader board. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone. I just can not stand people that LIE so much like you do. I do not even know you, and no one in MLM that is anyone knows who you are. You really need to move on and try to get attention other ways.

    • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

      we all laughed at “family networker” and know one even knows who you are…. please stop stalking me on forums!

  • Raymond

    Troy have you heard of Wealth creation alliance. It seems to be creating alot of momentum as it is still in pre launch and people are already being paid good returns in a short period of time. Im skeptical as it sounds very much like zeek with its profit pool.

    • Joy

      Hi Troy,

      I am also wondering about Wealth Cretion Alliance. Have you heard anything? I am needing to earn some income quickly.

      Thank You,
      Joy

      • Troy Dooly

        @Joy,

        I went at looked at the website today. It looks like a two level affiliate program, marketing some ponzi portals. I state this because each one of the banners I clicked on went to pages where the ad copy stated I would earn from 2% to 7% on my money daily.

        I would run from this program because whoever is launching it is either clueless is out to get peoples money.

  • Bil

    Hi Troy its me again. I do not know how to rephrase the question. I heard on the video that you placed Brokers banners as a Ponzi and I want to know if you have any evidence at all to support it.

    I cannot make it any easier mate………

    • Troy Dooly

      @Bil,

      Okay, then I have reply to that several times publicly.

  • Barry A

    Well I see that Todd Hirsch has been quiet for a while on this message board. I believe that Bidify needs to get him far away from their members and their company before he brings them down bigtime. I also think that the Authorities should be looking into the Todd Hirsch guy and all the scams he has been promoting for a few years on skype. He has never build a downline iN a Brick N Mortor traditional legal network marketing company. The only ones he has ever done are Ponzi schemes , one after another after another. I wonder why he has escaped to the Phillipines, but I would bet the Government will possibly be waiting for him when he gets back if he comes back. I think he should also check into a rehab centre because only a drunk would make a stupid video like that and threaten the owner of this message board. I think the Authorties should look into the scam he is running right now called CLOUD 2X2 CYCLER THAT HE S PROMOTING ON SKYPE. TOTAL PONZI

    • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

      LOL

      Cloud2x2 is a 2×2 mlm program!

      You do not even know what a ponzi is!!

      To make money in cloud2x2 you have to WORK!

      • Barry A

        Well then please supply me with your registration for the company, who your legal council and the licensing for the countries you are doing business in. I saw in a post in behindmlm that a guy named Mike Lavoie is the owner with you Todd. I see he is in Canada so I would like to see the Canadian registration. I understand that up there in Canada they do not mess around with Ponzi schemes to nicley. Just have to go back at look at the court cases charged against Skybiz members up in Canada that were all charged and conficted.

        Cloud 2×2 is a total Ponzi scheme, does cloud 2×2 have a 70% outside ales versus members buying. I do not see on your site where a customer can buy the worthless product without joining the scam. Who u trying to fool Hirsch, you dreamed this up with this Lavoie guy in your basement and just did up a script and starting marketing. Typical of all these 2×2 out there, one time payment, no residual , no direct sales.
        And you ay you are a intelligent mlm person, I figure not.

  • maria1965

    I just can’t wait for Zeek Rewards to come back …after it has been proven that it WAS NOT A PONZI..

    ATTENTION to all MLM competitors that have created so much trouble for Zeek Rewards…

    Let me tell you…50% OF YOUR AFFILIATES WILL JOIN ZEEK REWARDS DUE TO YOUR INCOMPETENT CONDUCT!!!

    In a way with all this publicity…Zeek WILL became a worldwide phenomenal MLM home base business.

    Go Zeek Rewards from Australia!

    • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

      Zeek is NEVER coming back!

  • Pingback: Cloud 2×2 Review: $125 matrix entry pyramid scheme | BehindMLM

  • Bil

    Troy I’m not trying to be a pain or annoy you but I have a couple of people that have joined Brokers Banners and have asked me to ask you what kind of evidence you have in saying that Brokers Banners is a ponzi. I feel that are avoiding the question and you keep answering the question with a question. Troy if you have made a mistake then its fine i’m not going to get upset about as we are all human we all make mistake. I have followed you for a long time and most of the things you say are correct.

    I appreciate it mate

    • Troy Dooly

      @Bil,

      I have not avoided that question, I have just answered it many times.

      For starters, I have yet to find where the ads are showing up on anyone’s websites or have a found any mention of ads on 3rd party websites who are not members of the compensation structure. And when I did the research I did not find where BB was registered to do business in North America. If the majority of the income is running through the compensation structure and the company and the affiliates are promoting high rates of returns (as in Zeek) then there are ponzi issues.

  • http://vip047332271@twitter Henry Alvarez

    Hi Troy;

    WE need your help in this matter of interest, We hope that zeek come back, fast , some of the affiliates, were trying to save their home, in Florida I have 35 affiliates , under me, in which their asking what happen, I feel or Govetment is to Big and to much power, in other words , just Control of eveything, if Zeek had 2 million affiliates, we ask that we should get together, and send each other $2.00 if we get together 150 thousand, of our members, we could each get 300.000.00 thousand , pay the taxes of course, anf pay our Homes Loans dont need the Banks, send the $2.00 to 940 Alba drive Orlando Florida, 32804, we thank You

  • http://vip047332271@twitter Henry Alvarez

    Hi Troy

    Is me again, we have loss between all of us all 35 affiliates, approx. 45,000.00 We are going to hire a Lawyer needs your common in this matter.

    thanks

    From Florida.

  • rami

    more details on this todd guy:

    http://behindmlm.com/companies/cloud-2×2-review-125-matrix-entry-pyramid-scheme/

    appearntly this guy himself took money from zeek affiliates with knowning that zeekrewards is a ponzi scheme!

    this guy took our money! dear guys from the SEC, please arrest him!

    • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

      LOL… you are so funny…

      I joined Zeek with a few friends of mine and they only joined it to INVEST!

      I have said that about 5 times now on this page.

  • Qasim

    Zeek Rewards Legal Alert: Kenneth Bell Zeek Rewards Receiver Clarifies Major Issues: please read this link: http://adf.ly/Cc2wN

  • Morten

    @Troy

    quote:
    I would disagree with you that I am the only one using this terminology. We do seem to be from two different worlds, and those in my world of network marketing who like me are going over everything with a find tooth comb, do use thee words, among others.
    ********

    No, you’re not the only one, there’s several of them.

    Some examples from the court can be people driving a car without a driver’s licence, claiming “I wasn’t driving, I was travelling” — believing the use of other words will makes a huge difference and make something become more legal. But it doesn’t make much difference in reality, other than temporarily misleading the ones who believes in it.

    A business will normally be defined by its core. In Zeek, that was the affiliate program and the money coming in from affiliates, not the penny auctions. So Zeek was technically in the “affiliate recruitment niche” or “affiliate investment niche”, not in the “unique bid auction niche” — if we use normal business logics.

    The core of Zeek’s business model was a rather passive investment scheme, combined with a recruitment scheme. “Rather passive” means it had some kind of “work” connected to it, but that work didn’t affect the results very much. It wouldn’t have made much difference if they had dropped the “work” completely. It was more like a qualifier than real work.

    When your belief system is in conflict with reality, don’t expect the reality to change. It’s normally wiser to check your own belief system.

    In reality, Zeek was shut down as an investment scheme running a fraudulent Ponzi investment. Paul Burks hired an experienced Ponzi case lawyer as his attorney, Noell P. Tin, with experience from cases like 12DailyPro / Charis Johnson and other Ponzi schemes.

    For most people involved directly or indirectly, it would probably have been better if Zeek had been shut down earlier. It would also probably have been better if people had been clear in their descriptions, and had identified it for what it was at an earlier stage. “Ponzi scheme” is probably a more precise description than “flaws in the compensation plan”.

    • Troy Dooly

      @Morten,

      I can see your point of view. However, let’s look at something you said. “When your belief system is in conflict with reality, don’t expect the reality to change. It’s normally wiser to check your own belief system.”

      That is a pretty good statement, and I like it. So now let me ask you a question about reality.

      1. Was the Civil War really the “war of Northern Aggression” or “Southern Rebellion”?
      2. Did we win our freedom in the USA during the “Revolutionary War” or the “War Of Rebellion”?

      yes, totally outside the box of what we are talking about, but the reality is that depending on the view of a situation is where one lands in reality. In the above two examples the facts are all the same, but the story told around those facts are much different depending on the history books read.

      In reality, Zeek was shut down on the allegation that is was an investment scheme, and the owner of the company Paul Burks, did not admit or deny those allegations.

      In my personal, reality, I would like to see those allegations defended in a court of law. If the allegations ae correct, then many attorneys, compliance and compensation experts need to get together and review what they missed or come forward and admit that Paul Burks did not take any of their advice.

      I do agree that if the SEC or any regulator was 100% sure they could defend their allegations of a Ponzi it should have been shut down in the Spring on 2012.

      I really do not think we are closer in agreeing than we may realize.

      • Chris Bailey

        I’m not Morten, but figured I would throw in my .02 on this.

        The reality is that the Civil War was simply the Civil War, two sides of this country with different belief systems and moral values battling it out.

        It doesn’t become the “war of Northern Aggression” or “Southern Rebellion” until people start to tell the story based on their own opinions and beliefs.

        Same thing with the “Revolutionary War” or the “War Of Rebellion”.

        Troy, with Zeek, you like to claim that you have “no skin in the game”.

        While this may be true monetarily, it is not true emotionally.

        After, someone you claim was a mentor to you designed the comp plan. Others you claim as friends were involved with compliance and legal advice.

        You have a lot of emotional/personal “skin in the game”.

        Legitimate critics/analysts do their best to leave emotion completely out of the analysis.

        Critics of Zeek analyzed it as it was created and as it was operating, not as it should have/would have/could have been if given time to make changes.

        To earn money in Zeek, you only needed to:
        1. Spend $10 to $100/month.
        2. Post one ad per day.
        3. Give away bids to real or fake customers.

        All 3 acts could be automated and even if they couldn’t be automated, they would have taken a mere few minutes per month.

        This made Zeek a passive income opportunity and Paul Burks’ manipulation of the RPP, an accusation he did not dispute, made it a ponzi.

        Sure, in a perfect world, there would be a trial to prove guilt or innocence.

        But even then, that doesn’t guarantee that the verdict would be right(guilty or innocent). Juries are filled with people that have their own views and beliefs that can taint their decisions instead of relying solely on facts.

        With Zeek, critics saw early on exactly how the company was promoting itself as a passive investment scheme.

        Zeek then merely changed the wording without changing the business model.

        But the horse was already out of the barn.

        Using “compliance” speak to try and unring the bell that they rang wasn’t going to change anything.

        Affiliates were simply marketing Zeek the same way in which Zeek had marketed itselt.

        Any changes that Zeek was allegedly going to make did not change what they were at the moment that the SEC shut them down.

        • Troy Dooly

          Chris,

          You are 100% correct on your observation. Emotionally I do have skin in the game. And in most cases I never has an issue with leaving the emotions on the sidelines. But in this case as you have observed, it has been a battle.

          The more I uncover and witness the more I am getting a better understanding on some thing. There are still some that make no sense, and will not make sense until all the cases are settled and people can talk.

          Heck I saw early on how it was promoted and talked about it. It is not about what I saw early on, it is about seeing some great minds who to this day also do not see a ponzi. When I see folks on both sides that I have grown to respect for their expertise have diabolically opposed views, (and politics aren’t involved) then it does cause conflict and makes me want finite answers.

          I don’t have issues admitting when I am wrong… Until now. I just want to make sure I have all the facts I can get my hands on before jumping to a final conclusion one way or another.

          Thank you for taking time to continue this conversation. It is through you and others who are true advocates for stopping ponzi’s that I have learned much and have grown personally.

          Living An Epic Adventure,
          Troy

          • Chris Bailey

            Even when this is all over and done with, I suspect that you will still be scratching your head over some things.

            I know I do every time one of these things plays out.

        • James

          “To earn money in Zeek, you only needed to:
          1. Spend $10 to $100/month.
          2. Post one ad per day.
          3. Give away bids to real or fake customers.”

          This sounds a lot like a franchise owner. You hire a general manager, shift managers, and line workers. Then you collect all the profits. HELLO!

      • Lane

        So all the many attorneys, compliance and compensation experts Zeek hired missed that paying 90% plus compensation from new affiliates money was going on and had no idea that fact constituted a pyramid? They had inside info as you have stated you also had back in the late spring or early summer when you told them to change things. Also if the tweaks had been put in place that does not change the fact that it ran as a pyramid for almost 2 years. Tweaking would have not changed the fact that a lot of top players made a lot of money in an alleged illegal pyramid up until that point. Arguing the fact that you and others had told them these things needed to be changed only helps to prove the case that they knew what they were doing and didn’t want to change because they still had not up until the day they closed. BidiFy changed theirs and scrapped the Zeek like comp plan in days after so it doesn’t take long to change or eliminate the things pointed out by you and the experts.

        • Troy Dooly

          @Lane,

          Ponzi is different than a Pyramid. We covered the pyramid issue from day one.

          And if the numbers were revealed for BidiFy, I would still bet the revenue from affiliates is far higher than auction revenue. It is this way in every startup company.

          • Lane

            Ok substitute the word Ponzi for Pyramid. So all the many attorneys, compliance and compensation experts Zeek hired missed that paying 90% plus compensation from new affiliates money was going on and had no idea that fact constituted a Ponzi?

          • Troy Dooly

            @Lane,

            Most network marketing companies, (except those who are established retail companies adding a direct sales channel) start off top heavy with internal consumption. This is do to the fact you have to build the network before the network can attract customers.

            So it was not out of the norm that the company was top heavy with affiliates over customers.

            However, in April after studying the Burn Lounge decision I an others pushed the issue of generating customer revenue and filling the RPP with it. If you have read through the posts here or at the old Zeek Rewards News, then you will have seen the qualifiers of 2,4,6,8,10 customers to affiliate based on the point value they held. The higher the point value the more monthly retail customers you would need. By the way to qualify as a customer, they could not be in the compensation plan, and must generate at minimum dollar amount per transaction. I am not sure on what that final number was, but the talk was between $10 to $12 per transaction.

            If this and other qualifiers would have gone live on the 22nd of August, it would have stopped the growth of the RPP, until folks started to re-qualify. Many of the people who had read about the qualifiers did get upset, because they realized they would have to work a little harder.

            So it is not that anyone missed anything.

          • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

            So are you calling Frode a liar?

          • Troy Dooly

            @Todd,

            Not sure what you are referring? Can you give a little more detail?

          • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

            “And if the numbers were revealed for BidiFy, I would still bet the revenue from affiliates is far higher than auction revenue. It is this way in every startup company.”

            Are you calling Frode a liar?

            The profit share that we did have in bidify until the zeek ponzi died was from the real penny auction profits.

          • Troy Dooly

            @Todd,

            I did not bring Frode up in my comment at all.

            But my point stands. And if you can prove my point wrong then feel free.

            Just send over the document or video and I will gladly post it.

        • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

          My point exactly Lane!

        • James

          No one has any proof what percent was paid out. Unit the investigation is complete stop accusing people. Once the investigation is complete you can start blaming the right people.

      • Morten

        @Troy

        Most of the court documents can be found here:
        https://sites.google.com/site/asdupdatesfiles/documents/other-asd-cases/12-cv-00519-zeek-rewards-sec-case

        Since we have the court documents available, there’s really no need to make it become a discussion about beliefs, whether it was flaws in the compensation plan or an illegal business model.

        RVG and Paul Burks have had their day in court in the civil parts of the case. The case was about the business itself and its’ owner, not about some rogue affiliates who had presented it in a misleading way.

        Two parts of ZeekRewards’ business model was considered to be investment schemes, in the complaint from SEC:
        1. the daily profit pool, and the parts related to it
        2. the membership and the recruitment

        But the civil case wasn’t about Ponzi or pyramid scheme issues, it was mostly about an emergency shutdown of the business, assets freeze and the appointment of a (temporary) receiver.

        Any Ponzi or pyramid scheme issues will probably be handled in the criminal parts of the case.

        I will normally NOT study court documents or laws, other than to get an overview over something.

        Paul Burks have had his day in court, represented by 3 lawyers, where one of them can be identified to be an experienced Ponzi lawyer — Noell P. Tin, with experience from the 12DailyPro case among others. Noell P. Tin made a relatively good deal for Paul Burks, in that he limited the amount of civil penalties to “only” $4 million (but that’s a good deal).

        People who believed they purchased bids (instead of making an investment) can find the logic for WHY it was an investment in the complaint. The bids purchases had a profit sharing agreement connected to it, making it become an “unregistered security” investment rather than a purchase. Profit sharing agreements is clearly defined as one type of securities in the “Security Act 1933″.

        Zeek was shut down by the court, not the SEC. It was shut down as a fraudulent investment scheme, but the civil case didn’t handle any criminal charges, only the reasons to shut it down.

        What the experts missed was to do anything with the core of Zeek’s business model. They focused on doing something with how it was presented, but without making the most important changes. They applied lipstick on a pig, and failed to see the difference between the pig and a pretty girl.

        “Emergency shutdown” means the investigation wasn’t finished when Zeek was shut down, so your theory about a possible shutdown in Spring 2012 fails. Zeek was still under investigation August 17 2012.

        People themselves are the first line of defence against frauds, and you can’t expect government agencies to fill that role for you, you’ll have to fill it yourself. As a former U.S. marine, you should probably know about how to fill a role in a defence line, which values to defend and so on..

  • http://michaelhamburger.com Michael Hamburger

    “Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference”― Mark Twain

    • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

      Mark Twain is great…. I would rather argue with a fool than argue with a liar.

  • Morten

    @Troy

    quote:
    Most network marketing companies, (except those who are established retail companies adding a direct sales channel) start off top heavy with internal consumption. This is do to the fact you have to build the network before the network can attract customers.
    **********

    That’s why many of the companies are shut down, too. They build a network rather than a customer base, something that usually won’t be sustainable.

    The flaw in that idea became clearly visible in ZeekRewards, where affiliates focused on building downlines rather than driving customers to the auctions. I was able to identify TWO real customers in 8 months.

    The idea that a network will “attract customers” has several flaws. A network with income opportunity seekers will only attract other income opportunity seekers, not customers. Some networks will probably scare customers away from buying rather than attracting them.

    The logic is plain and simple. To be able to pay a sales force, you’ll need money coming in from external sources. Internal consumption will only distribute the participants’ own money among themselves, from the bottom to the top in the system.

    • Troy Dooly

      @Morten,

      Not sure where you get your facts. Most direct selling companies aka network marketing aka MLM companies are not shut down by regulators. The majority close their doors because they are under-funded and try to do a pre-launch to self-fund the company. Others do not have a product that is conducive to C2C sales or they try to do a C2B sale and that does not work.

      A few like AOL, Sprint and MCI teamed up with network marketing organizations until their brand was large enough, then moved into other sales channels and eventually eliminated the network marketing channel.

      And at times even well funded network marketing companies will get off right, but run into trouble due to mismanagement, equity partner issues or a turn in the economy or trends.

      • Morten

        @Troy

        quote:
        Not sure where you get your facts.
        ************************

        I didn’t state any facts, only the vague “many companies”. And I didn’t specify “by regulators” either in the “shut down”, or specify any detailed reasons.

        The main point was about something else, about the need for external sources of revenue (real customers or something similar), and I focused on logics rather than statistics.

        It was a reply to the statements about recruitment driven business models with self consumption as the main source of revenue.

        • Troy Dooly

          @Morton,

          This is something many of us in network marketing have been fighting for, for years. Right now there are no clear cut laws about internal and external consumption. The closest we have come is the Burn Lounge Decision.

          Here is a great white paper written by my attorney talking about the Gray Area of direct selling. Pyramid Schemes: Saving The Network Marketing Industry By Defining The Grey

        • Lane

          I’m with you Morten. I really don’t think that Sprint started off their telephone business by self consuming. They may have given away some phones or put in some lines but they didn’t pay people to take them. I bet they didn’t pay 1.2% daily ROI or more to their first subscribers either. I know businesses do start off top heavy but they are top heavy and don’t pay out dividends without real retail or service profits.

          • Troy Dooly

            @Lane,

            You and Morten, might not know the history of Sprint when it comes to how they grew. I am not talking about the merger between GTE and United Telcom, but after United Telcom took control of the sprint brand… Here is a little history of both Sprint and MCI and how they grew.

            “Sprint actually penetrated the home market through Network 2000, a Network Marketing company. Remember their selling silver cards in 1989?

            The program was successful. Though Sprint executives deny it, Network 2000 built Sprint. The day came when Sprint corporate marketers got jealous and took their axes to Network 2000. What resulted was the largest class action suit in the history of Network Marketing-$198 million dollars. Networkers who were in Network 2000 still collect checks from Sprint. AMWAY and MCI don’t release exact figures, but industry estimates are that 48% of new customers that MCI gets are through AMWAY. If you consider that each of AMWAY’s distributors signs up with MCI, that is 1.5 million customers alone!” Source Rod Cook MLM Watchdog.

            Self consumption is not a back thing… What you and others may not realize is that Zeek Rewards affiliates were NOT self consuming which is the backbone of the SEC complaint. If they had been self consuming, then the bids would have been used in the auctions.

          • Lane

            Exactly they weren’t self consuming and the bids weren’t being used in the auctions like you just said, but they were making 1.2% ROI or better most days. That alone screams we’re paying you with new investor or affiliate funds so get more people in to keep the Ponzi going. Take out the ROI and almost nobody gets in and we’re not having this conversation.

  • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

    I must say…… you did make a good response video…

    You tried to jab me a few times there… really Troy.. My video could have 100k views if I wanted it to have the much…

    You care a Cool. dude….. in a lot of ways… but you are also full of shit… you knew that Zeek was paying the old “investors” from the new “investors” it is that simple…

    that is what it made it a “ponzi” we do not need to be “ponzi experts” to figure that out…..

    You are kinda like a politician…. you are a good talker….buy still full of SHIT…

    You also put words in my mouth… I said that I “knew” or thought Zeek was a ponzi… 90%++ of the members thought the same thing.. but were there for the ride….

    I never promoted Zeek heavily because I hated the look and feel of the web sites.. and I had a “gut” feeling from the start that it was a ponzi… and funny thing is.. most the TOP MLM guys did also… really there are some real big fish to go after in this one… big mlm guys that promoted Zeek.. and made $500k++ and they thought it was a ponzi also….

    they are the ones that you might call your “international ponzi ring” lol.. sounds like a gangsta movie… lol………

    SOO… my last words are this… I never lied to anyone….. YES I am #4 in Bidify.. and I will be #2 soon next to my boy Rocco…. thanks for at least posting my replies…

    I do like some of your stuff Troy.. but plZ my man… KEEP IT REAL!!!!

    YOU WILL SEE MORE OF ME IN THIS INDUSTRY.. I FOUND MY CALLING.. AND I WILL MAKE BILLIONS… AND I ACTUALLY HAVE MORALS AND A HEART.. AND I HATE LIARS…..

    KEEP IT MORE REAL TROY….

    PEACE N’ LOVE

    -TODD

    • Troy Dooly

      @Todd,

      What I don;t understand is you are spending all your time here on this post, and have not mentioned anything on the BidiFy post I did this week. Have you stopped promoting BidiFy after the changes?

      • http://www.toddhirsch.net Todd Hirsch

        Thanks Troy,

        I have not spent that much time here on this page really…

        YES I am still promoting Bidify and I am getting some promotions together for the Diamond All Star Team (my bidify team)

        I like the changes at Bidify and I will stick with Bidify for a long time. I love quality, and Bidify is top notch quality.

        I seen your other posts about bidify.. and most of it is positive stuff. Good stuff. =)

        keep it real… everyday is a new day…

        • Tony

          Todd

          Grow up and stop insulting people. You are a leader of a group so start behaving like one. Remember there are quite a few or maybe a lot of people that were in Zeek so be more respectful to those people as they have suffered quite a lot. To be a leader you need to take some crticism and reply in a professional manner and not call people liars and spammed them. All i can say is grow up……….

  • Dale

    Troy,

    I am with Vidacup. It’s still in prelaunch. I look forward to any more information you come across. I was with Zeek Rewards and dont want to leave a fallen affiliate. Kind of like the Army as you know as a Marine, never leave a fallen trooper. Hope all is well with you!
    Let’s all just enjoy some coffee!! http://yummycoffee.myvidacup.com

  • Michael Mabe

    Troy I am listening to a conference call that took place last night from Blane Williams of Wealth Creation Alliance.
    What do you know about him and this company?

    https://www.freeconferencecallhd.com/playback.asp?n=-17-65-67-17-65-67-17-65-6763-17-65-67673589-17-65-67-17-65-67127-17-65-6763-17-65-672985%3B1NzAzOTY4OTA%3D1

  • christian johns

    what a joke. give it up losers! get a life all of you.

  • grant

    this todd guy sounds like a total ass, he is all high a mighty in bidify, well let me tell you BIDIFY is a freaking joke. I would never ever put my money in again. It has cost me and my family thousands of dollars, since the changes, i believe this frode guy is a crook, just like he was before, and why would you want a criminal working for your company? The whole bidify thing just pisses me off. No integrity, they dont care about their affiliates. Its all about the top people like this todd guy. i would be curious to know if he is part of this JJs group.

  • Lanette

    Is this the same Todd Hirsch running Cloud2x2 that is not paying the affiliates. He accused me of trying to scam him when I requested funds that he had not paid out to me and others in the business. I sent him all the necessary info (that was still in my back office and readily available) after he requested it and his response was that he could not be scammed.

    He has the nerve to accuse someone of fraudulent behavior when he is not above board and leaving many of us hanging.

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