Home MLM News Breaking MLM News: MonaVie President of North America Randy Schroeder Calls Zeek Rewards Ponzi And Is Suing Two Former Top Distributors

Breaking MLM News: MonaVie President of North America Randy Schroeder Calls Zeek Rewards Ponzi And Is Suing Two Former Top Distributors

by Troy Dooly

Last night when I started getting the links and downloads of Randy Schroeder’s call, I took time to listen, text Dallin Larsen founder of MonaVie my concerns, then took time to reflect on the call and get some advice on how to handle it. As a dug into some of the background I found two new lawsuits filed against former top MonaVie distributors. After some thought, I decide it was important to address these issues publicly.

Breaking MLM News:  MonaVie President of North America Randy Schroeder Calls Zeek Rewards Ponzi And Is Suing Two Former Top Distributors

My overall concern is not that Randy Schroeder would make his opinions known. This is his Right as a U.S. Citizen. But, even though we have the Right to Free Speech, with that right comes responsibility as well as consequences for what we say.

You can hear what Randy Schroeder President of North America has to say about Zeek Rewards by clicikng hear.

The specific info can be found between about 5mins to 8 mins into the call.

As the leader of a billion dollar multi-national health and nutrition company in the network marketing community, Schroeder should be very careful what he has to say about any other company. Although he made it clear he was not speaking on behalf of MonaVie, as an officer of the company, he places the company and their distributors in jeopardy if Rex Venture Group LLC were to file some form of civil action.

It did cause me to recall a time a few years ago, where I voiced my opinion on why Randy Schroerder left Agel. I reported that “it must be for the money he was paid.” Randy was quick to comment on my blog post, and I quickly updated with the truth. I learned a valuable lesson that night… “get the fact before you speak.” Each time I have not done that, I have ended up with egg on my face.

I challenge Randy and Dallin to take the corporate jet and travel to N.C. next week as my guests to the Red Carpet Day event. I will introduce you to Paul Burks, and his team and let you better understand their drive and mission for the company.

Later I found two current lawsuits against former distributors of MonaVie who had joined Evolv Health and Momentis Energy. I figure it is probably not wise to file a lawsuit against any distributors who have joined Zeek Rewards because to do so, one of two things will happen. You would need to file the lawsuit as MonaVie has the first two (see Below)

MonaVie LLC, a Delaware company
v.
Stay-Fit Inc., a California corporation; Joseph Licciardi
7/18/2012 2:12 cv 704 Waddoups
(Central) Contract. Defendants solicited plaintiff’s distributors to join another network marketing company, Momentis, and it seeks consequential damages and injunctive relief.
Paid download
Graden Jackson
Strong & Hanni

MonaVie LLC, a Delaware company
v.
TS Health Source Inc., a Florida corporation; Todd Smith; Stephanie Smith
7/18/2012 2:12 cv 705 Furse
(Central) Contract. Defendants solicited plaintiff’s distributors to join another network marketing company, Evolv, and it seeks consequential damages and injunctive relief.
Paid download
Graden Jackson
Strong & Hanni

Or you would have to file it stating the former distributor had joined a ponzi and/or pyramid scheme, which could leave MonaVie open to a huge counter suit.

It scares me when I see any company move away from their founding mission. In the early days of MonaVie, Dallin came out strong as an advocate for distributors rights to come and go from MonaVie or any company as they please.

He was willing to fight Amway to prove his stance when they came after Brig Hart and Orrin Woodward. Yet, today as the company has grown, it seems the mission has changed.

Now, at times missions do need to change. But the one thing which should always be consistent is building trust and open communication.

If we as the network marketing community are going to promote Free Agency, the right for distributors to move when they want to move, and for companies to attract these free agents as they see fit. Then it would make sense to me, that the company owners and the free agents, should get together in advance and work out a deal where everyone can win.

I know that may just be some romantic notion on my account, but it sure seems that if everyone got together and did their best to work things out in advance. And if we would learn to treat each other as we want to be treated, that as a community we could raise the bar of excellence.

I respect the MonaVie leadership and what they have done over the years to change the lives of people. I could Randy and Dallin as causal friends in our community, and believe they have done some great things for people over the years. I just question the wisdom of lawsuits and calling anyone or any company an illegal business, without getting all the facts.

Living An Epic Adventure,
Troy Dooly

related posts

184 comments

ZY August 1, 2012 - 19:30

Suit yourself.

Chris July 31, 2012 - 10:43

Randy shows NO Corporate type of Character, or Professionalism, nor proper leadership, If there is anyone to SUE here is Randy, and his administration. Why? No corporate leader tears down there competitor, they compare there , service our products with there their competition. Randy, take a very good look at the STATS for ZEEK and you can do the numbers and see why the company generates so much revenue. Online auctions was listed by the Wall Street Journal last year to be the #3 top Industry. So dont be a PUNK RANDY, BE A MAN, A LEADER. I am a Mona-Vie retail Purchaser , I will b e purchasing my Mona-Vie Overseas now. YOU JUST LOST ANOTHER CUSTOMER.

KEEP THIS UP RANDY YOU WILL LOSE YOUR LIVELY HOOD IN REVENUE. GOD DON'T LIKE JEALOUSY, ENVY, OR YOUR UGLYNESS. GROW-UP, and be a man.

jaden July 31, 2012 - 08:07

@Dooly,

Thanks for your valuable time!

Digging deeper for info

Jaden

jaden July 30, 2012 - 09:36

@Troy Dooly,

In 2011 Zeekrewards income disclosure statement says they paid out 58.5 million total. Is this include revenue outside the uS?

Troy Dooly July 30, 2012 - 11:41

@Jaden,

It is my understanding that the IDS is ONLY for the USA. I would guess that those figures are only for the USA.

jaden July 31, 2012 - 07:54

If we/you can't see the real data/earning/expense of Zeekrewards, then one can not claim that this business is legit. Honestly, I just don't see how Zeekrewards can continue to pay out million of dollars each month to affiliates worldwide from a penny auction site. I just don't see it.

ZY July 30, 2012 - 23:04

Please search and get answers to some of your questions by yourself before you come and ask. If you are an affiliate , you better take the compliance course. On a site note , please just throw your questions into a single comment once you round em up.

jaden July 31, 2012 - 07:08

@ZY,

what is your problem? What do you think i'm doing? I'm digging for info from the man(Troy Dooly) who knows more than you and the rest of Zeekrewards affiliates. And btw, please follow this blog carefully. I already stated that I'm not an affiliate of Zeekrewards. I'm an outsider trying to gather info from all sources, which including zeekrewards website, mlmhelpdesk, behindmlm, scam, mlm, kasey chang's hub page, attorneys, businessmen and so forth.

Digging deeper for info

Jaden

jaden July 31, 2012 - 07:32

I honestly think that Troy Dooly got the scoop of which bank zeekrewards is doing business with, but he is not willing to spill the beans, due to his strong relationship with Zeekheads . In all honesty, I feel that Troy Dooly is losing track of what he is out to (To analyze the business). Can it be that Troy is an affiliate himself or got paid off by zeekhead?(my opinion, btw).

Why so secretive if the business is legit? @Troy, please remember that many affiliates are looking up to you for answer/info.

Troy Dooly July 31, 2012 - 19:38

@Jaden,

You are correct I do know what banks. What does knowing the names of the banks have to do with analyzing the company?

LOL… As for being an affiliate for Zeek or any company, that is so old, and my stance is very strong and public. I NEVER join any company and haven't since I retired in 2009 from my last company (which I still receive a check, but they are out of network marketing).

As for getting paid off… Well that is another old theory, which you are entitled. I am just not sure Zeek or any company has enough cash to pay me to violate my principles and ethics. Let alone embarrassed my family.

And to hold myself accountable, I always post and use my real name. See one thing you might not have thought about is the fact, if Rex Venture Group, LLC., is ever investigated for regulatory issues, or for being a ponzi or pyramid, I will be drawn into the investigation. Do you really think knowing this could happen, I could be bought off.

If you had taken time to read my comments in other companies, then you would also know that regulators come here on a regular basis as does law enforcement. I would closely with both and have since I was 18 years old. 🙂

And, most of what you ask is public if you dig deeper. 🙂

And I do remember the responsibility I have and who I answer…

ZY July 31, 2012 - 20:45

I already stated 'if you were one', read again. Like i said , please gather every questions you have into one comment , it will be easier for the readers of this blog. I have no problem with you , i have seen plenty like you on here.

'The info is public for the most part. And like you, I had to dig for more info. Answering questions from affiliates via email and here on the blog is not an issue. But if you want to find the info as an outsider then do what I did and dig deeper for the info.' Quote from Troy.

Jaden August 1, 2012 - 09:35

@troy dooly, thanks for the post and I will continue to dig deeper.

@zy, are you an expert in mlm? If not, then you are not my source for info.

Digging deeper for info

Jaden

jaden July 30, 2012 - 09:12

@Troy Dooly,

Are you positively, without a doubt that Zeekrewards is not an investment business?

Digging deeper for info

Jaden

Troy Dooly July 30, 2012 - 11:48

@Jaden,

I am sure based on the information I have researched and reviewed. And after talking with all the attorneys, consultants CFO and COO, I do not feel that Rex Venture Gorup, LLC is operating an investment business of any kind. They do run several internet eCommerce businesses with Zeekler being their most popular to date.

I do think many of the affiliates who promote the Zeek Rewards network marketing business opportunity and the Zeekler Penny Auction House do represent the business in an unprofessional manner and should be terminated for doing so.

jaden July 30, 2012 - 09:01

@Troy Dooly,

is Zeekrewards doing business with the Bank of NewYork Mellon,NY>NY. 1st IBK?

Digging deeper for info.

Jaden

Troy Dooly July 30, 2012 - 11:49

@Jaden,

Since I am not a principle or officer in Rex Venture Group, LLC., I am not at the liberty to say with who they may be banking with.

Living An Epic Adventure,
Troy Dooly

jaden July 31, 2012 - 00:59

@Troy Dooly,

This is pretty easy question to answer. Unless you signed the contract to keep your mouth zip up. Why so secretive if the business is legit? Please remember that most affiliates are looking up to you for answer.

Digging deeper for info

Jaden

Troy Dooly July 31, 2012 - 03:48

@Jaden,

The info is public for the most part. And like you, I had to dig for more info. Answering questions from affiliates via email and here on the blog is not an issue. But if you want to find the info as an outsider then do what I did and dig deeper for the info.

But, since my time is valuable and I give it to the affiliates for free, if you want more info from me schedule a consultation appointment.

Living An Epic Adventure,
Troy

jaden July 30, 2012 - 08:59

@Troy Dooly,

Are portions of monthly membership fees from downlines paid out directly to the recruiting affiliate?

Please don't tell me this is out of compliance.

Troy Dooly July 30, 2012 - 11:55

@Jaden,

This is pretty elementary… If you go to Get Paid it will explain it pretty good, and show you each part of the compensation plan.

Plus this webinar should also help. (Click Here)

Zeek 101 might also be a good place to go.

jaden July 30, 2012 - 08:50

@Troy Dooly,

Can affiliate earn commission along just by placing one ads per day? Do customers have to click on the ads link and buy bids in order for affiliate to earn commission?

Troy Dooly July 30, 2012 - 11:56

@Jaden,

Review my other answers. Jaden, these are simple answers you can find at the links I have provided or by reviewing the Zeek Reward site yourself.

jaden July 30, 2012 - 08:45

@Troy Dooly,

I honestly think the ads placement is bogus and irrelevant. I actually see with my own eyes that you can skip step 3 in the ads placement form without showing where the ads is being placed and just click on the submit button and you are done for the day.

Troy Dooly July 30, 2012 - 11:57

@Jaden,

SOunds like you are willing to take the risk that the company will not notice and cut off your qualification. 🙂

jaden July 31, 2012 - 00:53

@Troy Dooly, I'm not an affiliate of Zeekrewards.

Troy Dooly July 31, 2012 - 03:50

@Jaden,

Not sure what your point is this one. The majority of the info you want is public at Zeek Rewards, here BMLM and elsewhere.

jaden July 30, 2012 - 05:19

@Troy Dooly, Please explain why it would put Zeekrewards out of complaince to answer the yes or no question of whether or not the daily ROIs paid out by the company consist of mostly affiliate money is a "PROPRIETARY SECRET". Why Why?

Troy Dooly July 30, 2012 - 12:10

@Jaden,

The question in and of itself is out of compliance. When a question is asked that is out of compliance, then the answer will also be out of compliance.

Since the company does NOT pay any daily ROI, there is not answer!

As for the company's accounting being proprietary, that is how business is run, private or public. Even public companies like the billion dollar giant Herbalife doesn't split their sales numbers out like you are requesting.

Morten July 30, 2012 - 01:08

I'm still wondering about the description where RPP is being converted to money when people use them to buy sample bids, but I don't think it's wise to ask about it. 🙂

The daily RPP is worthless points. When people use them to pay for sample bids, the seller has got worthless payment for the sample bids rather than the bids have been converted into money.

So buying sample bids for points will dilute the value of all the sample bids in circulation rather than adding value to them.

If a group of affiliates pays $10,000 for 10,000 sample bids, and another group of affiliates pays 40,000 RPP for 40,000 sample bids, the value of the 50,000 sample bids in circulation will only be $0.20 per bid.

Points will normally NOT convert to money just because someone use the points to pay for something. You will need a stream of real money REPLACING the points, you can't CONVERT them directly.

When people withdraws the points as real money, Zeek will replace the points and pay the amount out. They can't CONVERT the points in other ways than replacing them. For points to be taxable they must already have been replaced with money and been paid out to the affiliate.

THE TAX ISSUE:

The tax issue is about that, when "points" has been converted to money in the 1099's and was being reported as taxable income. Points are only virtual, and doesn't have any intrinsic value that can easily be converted to money.

The fact that other people pay for sample bids in real money will NOT add any monetary value to the points, it only shows that people have the option to pay for the bids with money if they like to. The money people pay for bids won't set any "value" to the bids, it will only set the PRICE if people uses exactly that option to pay for them. So people who have paid for the sample bids in points have got them for free, while others have paid $1 per bid.

Most people seems to get the sample bids for free, in that they can use worthless RPP to pay for them. Only newly recruited affiliates will have to pay for them with money. The others have a voluntarily OPTION to pay for them with money.

Zeek's tax method has probably been incorrect. They have posted worthless RPP points as taxable income, and posted worthless RPP points used to buy sample bids as possible deductions. This is an artificially inflating of income and deductions, and ordinary tax payers should probably avoid using methods like that.

Troy Dooly July 30, 2012 - 04:24

@Morten,

I'll let one of the affiliates respond to your overall comment.

I will add a couple notes of thought to what you wrote.

1. Points are NOT used for anything. Points are converted proportionality to cash based on the daily revenue share. Then the Cash Earned" can then be used to pay for bids, annual fees, and soon monthly subscription fees, and buying products from the auctions, ZeeBates and Free Stores.

2. Everything rolls through the "cash earned" affiliates account, where they can see their gross earnings. Once their earnings are in their control, they get to decide, do I take my earning through a payout, or purchase certain items and/or services.

3. So all bids are purchased for the same price, as is anything else their cash is used for.

4. So you might want to rethink your TAX Issue because he example you use, is not accurate, which will give you the wrong conclusion to the equation.

Morten July 30, 2012 - 15:39

Sorry, Troy, but I have already done all the rethinking needed. There's one area I haven't checked other than superficially, and that is the area of "accrued income". That area is mostly related to investments, so I can probably live without a detailed knowledge there.

My method has TESTED the "Cash available" against the two tax doctrines, and it fails the tests. I have also tested it against LIABILITIES, e.g. if Zeek offer any guarantees to pay out the "Cash available" as cash.

My method also relates to the taxes for 2011, so I haven't added any "soon to come" annual fees, subscription fees, etc.

The actual payout does NOT happen when the result of the daily profit share is displayed, it happens on a weekly basis when people send a request for payout and Zeek meets that request two weeks later.

So my thinking and rethinking seems to be OK, but thank you for the option.

Troy Dooly July 30, 2012 - 17:00

Morten,

It seems to me that based on your test there is a majority of network marketing companies that will not pass. Many companies still pay a month behind, not two weeks behind. The commissions are earned, shows up in the back office, and are not paid until the month following.

In other cases, the money is transferred to a master eWallet, and distributed to the sub-accounts of the distributors. As long as the distributors leave the cash in the sub-account the company continues to earn interest on the money, and after six months can forfeit the right to it, just like a check if they do not cash it. Yet in both accounts the 1099 does show the available income paid to the affiliate.

Glad, I am not the one who has to worry about this for the companies because it gives me a headache. 🙂

jaden July 29, 2012 - 06:15

@Troy Dooly,

Sorry for getting off topic, but I would like to hear your thought on this post from (jimmy-behindmlm website).

Think about the hundreds of thousands of spam ads posted by Zeek affiliates every day, they are ineffective because:

1. Venue – they are ineffective because they live on spammy classified ads that virtually no one visits, and certainly even fewer than virtually no one would click-through to land on Zeekler. The auction revenue hasn’t grown since January yet the affiliate investment keeps increasing. What does that tell you?

2. Saturation – posting 100 ads to a single classified site is just as effective as posting 1000, or 10000, or 100000. You do not gain 1000x more view or click-throughs if there are 100000 ads today vs. 100 yesterday. Yet Zeek continues to pay out millions in RPP every month – where is the money coming from?

3. Utilization Theory – if these ads were that effective, Zeek would not pay millions a month to affiliates to post them when they can hire ad firms in Ivory towers in NY, Boston, London, and Sydney to place better ads in real venues where people surf and for much less money. If you argue that the classified ads are working fine, then why couldn’t Zeek hire a team of virtual assistants in third world countries to post those ads for a few dollars per day rather than pay affiliates millions per month?

CONCLUSION:

The ads are completely ineffective and are nothing more than “busy work” to justify the Ponzi.

Troy Dooly July 30, 2012 - 05:31

@Jaden,

I will use the same numbering as you to keep this response clear.

Since I do not know how Jimmy-BMLM is defining "spam ads" my response may not apply.

1. Venue – Not all affiliates are using free classified or link referral sites. Many are buying advertising on several of the top ad networks and social sites. As a matter of fact, I just sent a cease and desist letter to one such affiliate for using one of my video images. 🙂 But that aside, the ranking of many of the free classified sites are high, because folks do go there looking for a deal of some kind. These are just the online versions of the offline rags like Thrifty Nickle, American Classifies etc. Free is never the long term marketing method one will want to use, but it is a good start for someone building on a shoe string. Personally I have never paid for any advertising to market myself on the net. Organic takes far longer, but does work.

He is totally wrong on the Zeekler side of things. If he or anyone takes time to review Zeekler as a stand alone site, they will quickly see traffic flowing from different counties than Zeek Rewards, and they will see folks are sticking around 6 to 7 minutes per visit. And new visits go up each month.

2. Saturation – This is an antiquated argument that has been used fr years in several different niches and industries. Although, I agree that the math will always show saturation, when you add the human touch to the math, you quickly find saturation doesn't work. Now, if RVG was the only company running a penny auction, saturation would be a huge concern. But with three peny auction houses already launched, another in prelaunch, and another about to launch, people who have just gotten involve with Zeek will shift to another company hoping to get in on the "ground floor".

And from strictly a marketing perspective, you can never over saturate. The whole premise is marketing is to get your name in front of as many people as you can to become know as the category creator. Which is why millions are spent daily on ads, and why companies pay millions for a 30 sec spot in the Olympics, etc. Knowing the numbers paid to affiliates and the numbers big companies paid for media buys, the two are very close in total expenditure.

3. Utilization Theory – Doesn't apply here at all. And Jimmy is totally wrong. AOL, Life, Jockey Clothing, SPRINT, Primierca, Keller Williams, MCI, and other multi-billion dollar companies have or all using network marketing arms to market and sell their goods. Why spend millions on split testing, then more millions in the creation of the ad, and media buys, when you can consolidate and just pay millions to the marketing arm? Lay the foundation of the vision, and lets the troops on the ground (within the guidelines set) do all the testing and marketing to generate the sales?

The real people Jimmy are talking about, are the ones in the field. When Madison Avenue or any other major ad group get involved, it takes months and years before a solid ad campaign is created, and even then there are more that flop than take off. How many ads have you seen one during the Super Bowl, just to never see again?

Grass Roots marketing campaigns have far greater marketing power in the 21 century than ever before thanks to social media and the internet. Obama, did not win based on Madison avenue, he won based on his grass roots marketing power. The same kind Zeek is using.

jaden July 29, 2012 - 05:20

@Everyone,

I'm not here to bash on Zeekrewards. Truthfully, I'm an outsider trying to look at the big picture from the left, right and center. And honestly, I had plenty of looking (from mlmhelpdesk, behindmlm, scam,k chang's hub, zeekrewards).

Morten July 30, 2012 - 02:52

@Jaden

You can see it from another viewpoint too.

I have probably picked up the jungle example from a self development book, more than 20 years ago. I will usually NOT quote from books like that, or retell any examples used in books like that — because the example will be taken out of its original context.

And you're almost guaranteed some people will misinterpret it and focus on some specific parts if you're using examples outside their original context. It will usually end up in meaningless discussions, a derailing from the topic you originally were discussing.

When other people starts to quote self development books, then it's OK to tell them "I can quote from self development books too, if you feel THAT can be a solution". I have probably a similar range of quotes as most of them (and if I miss some, I will probably find them in some books stowed away somewhere).

So you can see it from the viewpoint that quoting self development books isn't very smart in itself. The method shouldn't be used unless you have a very specific audience, or unless it's being used for other purposes than looking smart.

HERE'S ANOTHER STORY:

What type of leader who will be "best" depends on the type of organization you're leading. A gang will typically focus on following the one true leader of the gang, without questioning his authority. They have a clear and hierarchical "pecking order", much like poultry (e.g. chickens).

Other organizations will have a need for independent leaders able to make qualified decisions on their own, much like a flock of lions during the hunt. Lions will need to position themselves independtly during the hunt, to increase the chances for one of them being able to get the prey. They can not follow the instructions from a central leader during the hunt, one of the most important parts of the flock's chance for survival.

So Zeek's followers can use a correct method for leadership when they're waiting for instructions from the one true leader, and don't do any independently thinking on their own in some parts. Their flock's chances for survival can be dependent on that all of them are following the one true leader.

But if you are a lion, you will probably not like it when you're placed in a flock of chickens, where some of the lower ranked hens tries pecking at you, and then when the rooster tries to be the big boss after you have finished the first few hens. It will probably be a short process with the whole flock, only leaving some terrified hens spread around in the bushes.

The lion's leadership philosophy won't work in a flock of chickens, and the rooster's leadership philosophy won't work in a flock of lions. Both have a leadership philosophy that works under specific conditions and fails under other conditions.

The main point here isn't about lions and chickens, but some people will obviously be able to misinterpret it in that way, missing the point. So stories and metaphores can be "interesting" to use from time to time just to see the different reactions. 🙂

Morten July 27, 2012 - 03:28

Since people started to talk about leadership here …

We have the ones eager to follow the main leader through the jungle, all going in the same direction as the main leader and clearly showing their loyalty.

We also have the ones climbing up in a tree to check the direction, shouting down to the group below them "We're working our way in the wrong direction, we need to turn 30 degrees to the left to come to the right place".

A true leader should clearly use his own skills, and that includes being willing to climb up in a tree to check the direction. You can't expect a tree-climber to stay down deep within the chaos in the jungle among the other leaders, the ones who eagerly will follow any leader in any direction — "just to show their loyalty".

Zeek has probably too few tree-climbers?.

Troy Dooly July 27, 2012 - 03:44

@Morten,

Fantastic points!!! In all cases!

Morten July 27, 2012 - 06:43

@Troy

This thread is about Randy Schroeder calling ZeekRewards a Ponzi scheme in a leadership call to a group of MonaVie consultants, so I pointed out some other leadership skills than the common gang-member leadership style.

Randy Schroeder seems to have climbed up in a tree when he called in advisors (legal opinions), did his own research and shouted down to his own group about some direction issues — "the path you see in front of you leads to an unclimbable cliff".

My intention was to balance the leadership viewpoint of "NO ONE KNOWS the exact numbers except Paul, so there's no use in trying to analyse it either". "Follow the one and true leader blindly, and don't use your own brain".

The ones who have pointed out issues have mostly been tree-climbers, not the blind followers who stays on the ground, focusing on showing their own loyalty rather than doing the right things.

So I have chosen to contest the traditional gang-member leadership viewpoint, and introduced the tree-climber leadership viewpoint here. Gathering and analysing information is a normal and basic part of a tree-climber's behaviour.

Troy Dooly July 27, 2012 - 18:07

@Morten,

I fully agree. Many times I have called the Zeek climb the same as the ViSalus climb… A Flash Mob Mentality. When the majority go, then the rest just roll along. Unlike a Tribe mentality where learners are always changing and pushing the status quo. I do see a new bread of affiliate emerging who is willing to not only dig for answers, but when satisfied that Zeek is a viable business model for them and they join, they are willing to protect the longevity, by turning in the affiliates they find out of compliance.

Maybe some of this is the fact, over 100K reps have not gone through the compliance course and better understand how to run their network marketing business correctly.

Great insight my friend!

John Milanoski July 27, 2012 - 11:38

That's why no leader is an Island. Its about TEAM and about growing, attracting and surrounding yourself with Leaders.

Here with Troy, I do feel like I have someone up in the Trees…

on the ground…

way out left…

up front and looking back too!

I am certainly getting an education on Zeek and their unique model as well as perception impact.

Time always reveals.

All the best!

jaden July 29, 2012 - 04:47

@John Milanoski, I think you had your mind somewhere else when you wrote this post of yours.

Dan.M. July 27, 2012 - 13:50

…and it takes some people a little longer to realise that climbing a tree is not the only way to find your way through the forest.

Troy Dooly July 27, 2012 - 17:30

@Dan M.,

Great point… During the Vietnam war the VC, were known to dig tunnels, under the jungle to move around.

jaden July 29, 2012 - 05:11

@Dan. M.,

As a leader, if you can't see a clear direction on top of the tree, then you need to come down from the tree and try to look for a new direction on the ground (dig a tunnel). Obviously, you don't seem to understand Morten's explanation of a true leader.

BTW, I don't understand why some folks keep saying that Zeekrewards is 100% legit when they don't really understand the business model. If you don't really understand the in and out of their business model, then stop telling folks that the business is legit.

Dan.M. July 29, 2012 - 13:49

@ Jaden

Perhaps you mistook me for someone else. If not, thats sad, because it is obviously you that has not understood my comment. My comment is relatively easy to understand..it refers to looking outside of the box and realising that there are many ways to approach a situation and there can be many solutions to a problem, and to that end, just because you are not a leader, does not imply that you are a follower….perhaps thats not that easy for you to understand after all. To put it to you in another way, I am a director of my company, I employ staff, I am their leader, but I am often lead by them.

Jaden July 29, 2012 - 20:50

@dan, I understood your comment perfectly clear.

jaden July 29, 2012 - 04:45

@Morten, thanks for a great laugh. This is the most interesting post on this blog. Obviously, some folks (Dan M and John Milanoski) don't seem to understand your easy explanation of a TRUE LEADER.

Morten July 27, 2012 - 02:58

@Mike

This is an answer to a post further up in the thread, but it was impossible to answer it in the right place.

QUOTE:

@morten,

I never said vip points was cash. the vip is what is used to figure your daily rewards. so if i had 1000 vip points and they share 1.5% of daily revenue then i would have earned $15 for that day. I can take the cash or I can buy more sample bids to give to my prospects and customers. either way i earned $15 for that day. People buy digital items/products all the time that is what is bought when you buy a bid. It seems like you don’t have a clear understanding of the zeek program.

****************************

And I never mentioned VIP points, because the initial question was about taxes, not about Zeek's "system" in general.

VIP points are "points", only used to calculate your part of the daily profit. They pay out in RPP "points" (aka "Cash Rewards", "Cash available", "Reward points" or whatever).

So in your example you earned 15 points that day. You can use them to buy more sample bids, paying in points rather than money. You can't use them to pay for your grocery bill or transfer them directly to your bank account. They are worthless outside a specific "system".

You CAN convert them to money, but before you have done that they're only "points". You have no guarantee the operation where you try to convert them to money will succeed. So they are clearly "points" rather than money.

The tax issue was about the RPP. All RPP was posted as taxable income in the 1099-MISC tax form for 2011, giving the affiliates an artificially high taxable income. This tax issue is well known among affiliates who joined Zeek in 2011, but it's less known among more newly recruited affiliates.

Troy Dooly July 27, 2012 - 03:20

@Everyone,

While at the Red Carpet Day I asked about this question. It seems there may still be some misunderstanding, and admiringly it may be mine.

Anyhow, from what I think I understood, the RPP was not listed on the 1099 anywhere. All that was listed on 1099s was the accrual income earned and made available to each affiliate in their back office.

Although, they may have decided to leave the money in their back office, ask for a check, have it transferred to an eWallet, or just buy additional bids. No matter what they the owner of the income decided to do, RVG did include all of the earned income… NOT RPP point accumulation. The RPP total point value was not some how calculated as income and added to the 1099.

Morten July 27, 2012 - 05:28

@Troy

We're talking about the same thing here, only using different words. You can separat the total RPP paid to the backoffice into two separate parts:

A. RPP withdrawn as money

B. RPP reinvested in more sample bids, "accrual income".

A+B=C, and C is all the RPP paid to the backoffice, so we're talking about the same thing. For an affiliate who didn't withdraw any money in 2011 it will appear like all the RPP paid to the backoffice was taxable income. It will appear in a similar way to affiliates who have withdrawn money, too.

The difference here is that I'm mostly writing for "an audience of normal people, with no specific profession (like lawyers, accountants and so on)". So I will basiclly use the same description as they do, and not make it too complicated to understand.

The so called accrued income here is theoretical and imaginary, and not a realistic number for what an affiliate actually could be able to withdraw. Payouts will decrease if no RPP is being reinvested into more sample bids, so the theory will clearly fail.

The accrual method will also bring Zeek closer to be an investment than to purchase bids.

There is clearly a tax issue here. Affiliates in the U.S. have got an artificially inflated taxable income for "points" paid to their backoffice, where there never has been the same amount of money involved.

Troy Dooly July 27, 2012 - 05:39

@Morten,

I see what you are saying. However, the points accumulated are not reported on the 1099 at all. The only time anything from the RPP made it to the 1099, is when a portion of the RPP is converted into commissions. Once it is reported as commissions in the back office, the rep then has the ability to decide if they want to buy bids or take the cash.

But from asking the questions every which way from Sunday, the answer was always the same. RPP points accumulated in the back office was not reported on the 1099s. Only the accrual money that the affiliate had control over and could decide what they wanted to do with it… Buy bids or ask for cash.

SO, I understand where you are getting your explanation and can fully understand your point. But, since the company is stating the RPP balance is not what was reported, but the actual income earned, that was in control of the affiliates, I am not sure there is any tax issue.

Again, I admit I am not a tax accountant or tax attorney. But I figure the CFO knows her stuff pretty well. I'll report more on that first of the week. She truly is a pretty smart and experienced C-Level (public, private and educational) financial expert.

Morten July 27, 2012 - 13:29

@Troy

Some of the answers you get from them doesn't make much sense?

"Accumulated RPP" and "RPP balance" probably means the VIP balance? The VIP balance is only a number used to calculate the affiliate's share of the daily RPP each day, and people seems to KNOW it isn't taxable.

"Accrued income" is probably what the affiliates call "daily RPP", "daily cash reward" or something similar. They are paid in "points" to the backoffice each day, and they can be used to purchase sample bids. Affiliates also have the option to withdraw them as cash, but the payment process will happen somewhere else in the system.

THE TAX ISSUE:

The tax issue is about the RPP points. According to the different forum posts, all the RPP paid to the backoffice was declared as taxable income in the 1099 tax form for 2011.

The problem is that RPP isn't money in itself. It will fail the tests for "constructive receipt" and "cash equivalence".

It's more comparable to a message about "You can withdraw max $xxx today" than to any real payout.

When it comes to experts, I will usually prefer someone who is able to communicate their solutions in an understandable way. Howard Kaplan wasn't understandable when we tried to check his methods, he was only understandable for people who blindly follows instructions. I'm of course willing to give the CFO a chance.

Troy Dooly July 27, 2012 - 17:56

@Morten,

hmmm…Well, again I was informed from the top down, that none of the RPP is ever counted for 1099, only earned income. And the only time there is earned income is when someone is paid through the commissions, or when an affiliate decided to request a portion of the RPP point balance be converted to cash, which is then made available just like all their other commissions.

The affiliate is allowed to request that some or all of the converted RPP cash, be used to buy bids, pay for the monthly subscription or pay for the annual compliance and marketing system.

This is standard practice in most network marketing companies. Many today, take the monthly payment out of earned commissions, or allow monthly autoship to be paided out of earned commissions.

Which if I understand right, is 100% acceptable under the Constructive Receipt rules. All income earned must be in the control of the person who earned it.

And I do believe that you and correct "all RPP points that were converted to cash available" which is But the RPP point balance was NOT reported as income at all.

So, we can agree that the RPP point balance is NOT, income and in the control of the affiliates. And from talking with the powers to be, it was not counted on 1099s. Only RPP points converted to "cash available" which would then be pass the Constructive Receipt tests. Once the company makes all commissions available to the affiliate to disperse and use as they see fit, then the company by law must report the commissions as income.

Now although I have an extensive background on corporate and personal tax issues I do not count myself as an expert, and went to the top to make sure I did not go off of a forum post or anything else. And again, based on the information provided to me, which is also provided to the IRS, I am pretty sure I now have a handle on things.

But, Lord knows I can be totally off. But to sum it up. Only RPP points which had been converted to "available cash" was counted on the 1099s.

I also know that some of the confusion did come from the purchase of bids. Since the affiliates had used some of their available cash for bids, there was some confusion. The company made that clear, and I believe now makes available to the affiliate a complete running record of all income and bid purchases so they can have a full and clear picture for their tax advisers.

Living An Epic Adventure,
Troy

Morten July 28, 2012 - 04:53

@Troy

I don't think you should ask them anymore questions, since the answers only adds to the confusion.

My initial statement was something like this:

"All the RPP points paid to the backoffice was reported as taxable income for 2011", a description based on how affiliates sees it themselves.

The initial statement was clarified when I accepted to separate the points into (A) money withdrawn and (B) points used to purchase more sample bids. A+B is the same as my initial statement.

And then you got a complicated answer from Zeek, but it ends up close to my initial statement, only with some details added. They have also mixed in something I hadn't asked about in their answer, to add to the confusion.

Basically, we have ended up with these statements:

A: RPP points withdrawn as money was reported as taxable income in 2011.

B: RPP points used by the affiliates to buy more sample bids was reported as taxable income in 2011.

They have added a few more details, but the conclusion is very close to my initial statement.

A long and detailed explanation doesn't clarify the problem, it will only make people feel more confused about it. If Zeek can't giv plain and simple explanations, I see no point in asking them either.

The plain and simple explanation would be something like when I clarified A and B, e.g. "RPP points are converted into cash available, and BOTH money withdrawn and cash used to buy more sample bids was reported as taxable income in 2011".

I haven't checked how they are converting points to cash, but they need to keep it less complicated if they want to keep me interested.

My statements about tax issues and questionable tax methods still stands. We will probably need this issue to be checked by the correct authority.

John Milanoski July 25, 2012 - 12:08

@Troy,

We all got our start somewhere. It’s always good to keep that memory and experience fresh. The only reason someone has something bad to say about MLM is because of their experience, it is us… the participants in MLM that shape that experience and when we badmouth, thinking it is somehow raising us up into the light or swaying them our direction, it is the typically the opposite. If it doesn’t push prospective participants further from the industry it is replicating that same behavior until we have a network of badmouthers and that does no good for anyone. To that newcomer and even some seasoned, it becomes the evidence they need to justify why their family and all the naysayers might be right (it’s all about perception). It takes great strength to go against the grain and we should all embrace and encourage that behavior, not tear it down.

I often say… there are two kinds of so called leaders.

Those that “think” they are a leader because they spend all their time breaking others down so they “appear” to be BETTER (a temporary position).

Then what I consider a true leader. The one that is known because they have lifted others higher than them (nurtured/facilitated leaders). When the time gets tough, the 1st will disappear because they have no loyalty or foundation. The 2nd will be surrounded by leaders and have a solid foundation to go to the next level.

The key in my opinion is to do what is right, even when it hurts (and it often will). In the long run, it’s just a matter of higher highs and higher lows. We ALL need a hand; no man is an island, in MLM that is critical.

As this badmouthing about any company arises… I reflect on what we can all agree on.

A few examples:

There was a kid that was in his dorm room, he had little money and was just passionate about what he liked to do. He wrote some software and gave it away free (samples). All the sudden he was being offered millions (is that a ponzi? NO) did he sell anything personally? NO. The money got so big he could not believe it. He lived in his parent’s basement until he was nearly a billionaire. You know him as Mark Z.

example 2: There were two buddies that thought they could do something on the net and they wrote a program they called backrub. As that evolved they got many offers to be bought. It was a product they gave away free. Today they do exactly what zeek does. They have affiliates, they give away product (75.00 of free sample) and they do it in the 100’s of millions. They share their revenue with Affiliates for posting ads and promoting them. Today that company does 100 Billion plus. Sergey Brin and Larry Page never imagined. They get paid from millions of people, they share their revenue with affiliates. Google

This is not uncommon, but so many act as if it is. Because of their own disbelief. Remember, the statements you make often say more about you than they do about anyone else. You are speaking from your own perception and world (YOURS). You are not in anyone else’s shoes other than your own. Be careful.

The one thing that no one here has mentioned or talked about is the lifetime value of a customer. I don’t think anyone here knows those numbers for Zeek. That’s rightfully only known by their accountants and owners. It’s their own private proprietary information as it is for any company. So many are acting in a transactional mindset. Yes, they give away bids but here’s the real question. Of those they give bids to how many end up purchasing more bids? Of those that purchase bids how often do they come back to purchase more? You see, maybe a zeekrewards affiliate is giving away bids but the yield of doing so is huge because maybe for every bid they give away zeek gains a customer that spends 10.00, 100.00, 1000.00 or better? NO ONE HERE knows these numbers. You are only looking at what affiliates are doing and ignoring the highly lucrative penny auction and anyone badmouthing is doing so out of ignorance unless you have some inside information which I doubt you do!

When the badmouthing happens, You are not attacking Zeek, you are attacking our industry. It’s wreckless and damaging for us all. The badmouthing of Zeek has cost them millions, I have no ownership in zeek but as an industry participant and company owner I know first hand the challenges and damage these half truths can cause whether it’s an attack on the company, the owners or otherwise. It costs them millions, something most of the badmouthers never ever stop to consider. What is often touted as fact is something that was read on the web that was made up! The sad thing is, if these things spread it can be devastating financially to the owners and even bring down a company.

Here’s what we do know. Paul and Rex Venture group have been around for over 15 years. They didn’t just do this overnight, Zeek is a result of many years of experience, trial and error. They finally hit all the right notes and things took off. Challenges are compounded by this type of growth and every company faces them in some way. With things moving so fast it is my opinion that the zeek team is doing pretty darn good handling it. They have made many good moves to stay on track. We should all applaud that. If we don’t, what are we doing in MLM?

We live in a time of massive change and things can happen faster now than ever before. You will see in your lifetime, companies that start from nothing and go to 1 billion in sales in less than 120 days! Get used to it, embrace it. If this scares you because of your disbelief then take that as a warning to begin re-inventing yourself. Most of what you know is no longer true in business. Change is constant and if you are not creative and innovative, you will be left in the dust! Best thing you can do is surround yourself with people you can trust and want to be with. How do you do that? Walk in the light, play 100% and support everyone as best you can.

Kudos to Paul for taking 50% of the daily revenues from customer sales and putting it into a pool anyone can participate in from day one! Something no other company was willing to do. It is ONE model and it seems to be working fine.

I just hope the threatened do not bad mouth this to the point of another black eye for the industry. We’re all on the same team and the outside is pointing at us, looking for any way to say… “See, I told ya so”. Success for ANY MLM Company helps you. Realize that! Success of Amway, Shaklee, MonaVie, and so on have helped the whole industry. Allow that to happen, for the sake of us all. The success of MonaVie was largely due to leaders that evolved in another company first. MonaVie did not have any issue allowing them to come on board and if the reports are accurate to me, the key players there got special compensation above and beyond what anyone else got! Zeek didn’t have to do that, all members are equal. Participate in a company or don’t. it’s that simple. Any negativity towards companies you do not participate in has only wasted your time, put your intent in question and added tarnish to our industry.

Mostly, people will join you for YOU. What do you represent?

That’s my rant of the day, hope it inspires someone to do good today!

Respect to all,

John Milanoski

Entrepreneur, Student, Mentor, Freedom seeker, Father, Husband, Grandfather, mistake maker, solution provider, HUMAN BEING… Social/Network Marketer.

PS A final quote that I present.

"The reason you see weakness is not so you can tear down or exploit. It is because you have a strength to offer. Just remember, that which receives your strength will often reciprocate with strength to you where you are weak, and the day you need that will arrive!"

~ John Milanoski

Edwin July 25, 2012 - 19:59

I'm happy there is John Milanoski in this world.

John Milanoski July 27, 2012 - 12:21

@Edwin

Thanks,

Its a two way street. I'm happy for all people. The challengers get us to grow and improve too. When someone challenges us, we get the chance to check our walk and if it is a false accusation we get the opportunity to brighten the light a little.

For most people it is easier to give up in the face of the NaySayers. I am here to make sure the good move forward. I promote that you MUST forge ahead or you make what they say true to all that have heard and the compound result is masses asleep with lost dreams, low esteem, stifled innovation and creativity. I yell, "Wake up people, Anything is possible…. life's short, make it count."

Most people are challenging others because they want reason for where they are, they dont like where they are and they are asking you to SHOW them a better way. If you give up, you accept being where you don't want to be and validate to others that their own dream is not possible. LEAD by EXAMPLE, it is your obligation because others are watching and looking for evidence that they can too. Whether you think you are or not… YOU ARE A ROLE MODEL, as you succeed the scale and scope grows.

Like Troy says… living an epic adventure.

I'll add, you are the one that writes your own story but only when you take control of the pen. Will your life be something worth reading about? You make it so.

No matter who you are, what you think… If I can nudge you to be a little more, a little better, that makes my day!

Plenty to go around because we CREATE IT. You read this, its about YOU.

All the best,

JM

gen3benz July 26, 2012 - 21:29

"You see, maybe a zeekrewards affiliate is giving away bids but the yield of doing so is huge because maybe for every bid they give away zeek gains a customer that spends 10.00, 100.00, 1000.00 or better?"

Yes but for every retail bid sold to a customer, a VIP point is given to an affiliate in addition to a 20% cash referral commission.

VIP point totals grow exponentially by an average of 1.4% a day. Thats over 500% a year.

VIP points can be converted to cash over 90 days.

Seems to me that retail bid sales cost more money to Zeek then they earn.

Troy Dooly July 27, 2012 - 03:08

Gen3Benz,

You are correct that affiliates get paid well for bringing in retail customers. But they do not get paid any better than any other worse than any other marketing firm.

Those who do must of the work, but placing more ads, and building their personal Zeek Rewards/Zeekler national or international marketing and distribution system do earn a larger share of the RPP and in return will gain a larger commission through the compensation plan and earn more points in the RPP.

It is easy to see you do not fully understand the compensation plan works, or you would realize that there is far more then 20% personal commission and the RPP points.

I should also point out the RPP doesn't grow at 1.4% daily. And this is not a figure you have received from Zeek corporate. It seems that you are falling into the same trap some affiliates do, you are believing what you see on the internet as the gospel truth and reporting on it. I thought you were one of us who just wants the facts and truth out there, not the propaganda from folks trying to hurt others. Now you are promoting an ROI.

The points do grow in proportion to the revenue of the company and based on the person and organization attracting the most volume. But there is not specific amount, nor does the company even mention how much it may grow. But at any rate, the points are just that points, and do not have a dollar value. They are no different than my Fly Miles, Best Buy Award Points or Tom Thump gas card.

For every mile I fly or dollar I spend I get points which can and are converted into everything from a cash reward to additional gas to tens of thousands of dollars in 4 and 5 star stays in great hotels.

By the way, if you get a real good handle on the compensation plan, you will realize RVG earns far more than the bids cost. But I will admit studying compensation plans, can be boring.

Living An Epic Adventure,
Troy

gen3benz July 27, 2012 - 06:39

"They are no different than my Fly Miles, Best Buy Award Points or Tom Thump gas card." The points from those cards cannot be converted to cash.

VIP points most certainly can, so in essence they do have cash value.

It boils down to this….If VIP points could not be converted to cash and grow exponentially, no one would buy VIP bids.

1.4% is the average at zeek from day one, just using that as a reference. If the RPP% were to fall then Zeek would collapse.

Troy Dooly July 27, 2012 - 18:26

@Gen3Benz,

I should clarify my explanation better because I was on the road, and it did not come out as clear as needed.

All customer loyalty program points can be used for real fair market value awards. But, none have a dollar for dollar value for each point. And neither does the RPP points. Instead of going into detail on that point, there is plenty written here to explain how the conversion works.

Now, to your real issue. For this example since you used 1.4% we will stay with that. But after checking with Zeek corporate your math is wrong, and there has never been a 100% daily 1.4% figure used from day one to current.

But, again for your example, here is what would happen. Since the 1.4% is based on the incoming revenue. If all affiliates decide to convert 100% of their RPP points, then eventually, as the revenue of the company goes down, because no one is building and selling, the 1.4% average would also go down to where the points would not have any value and the Retail Point Pool would be as useless in the compensation plan as a generational override bonus when the majority of the affiliates are at the same rank.

I am not sure why you do not understand the RPP is 100% tied to revenue, and nothing else. Without a doubt there are plenty of folks with large RPP balances, but as of August 1st, because so many top level affiliates seem to love to procrastinate, I would predict many will find themselves not qualifying for the RPP for a little while. Which once again proves that Paul Burks seems to better understand the compensation plan he created than any of the rest of us.

He knows when to add qualifiers and caps to keep the compensation plan in check as the volume balances out and continues to grow. But what will really be interesting to what is what happens when the customers start to correct as we see with all network marketing companies. With the purchase of the new company and the launching of ZeeBates, you might have an even hardy time understanding things.

Maybe the real issue as I read over what you write, is that you feel the 1.4% you use is some real number and it is guaranteed. There is nothing in the compensation plan that guarantees anything in the bonus pools. And the company also makes it clear they can change the compensation plan as needed.

So, although you seem to feel the 1.4% or better the RPP is the backbone of the compensation plan, the real money is in the matrix, and other bonuses. The RPP is just what folks talk the most about, because they love seeing large bonus pools.

I know we will never agree, and I respect that. I do not fully understand your motives, but at least you are congruent in your stance.

Living An Epic Adventure,
Troy

John Milanoski July 27, 2012 - 11:24

its relative growth. the % paid is based on the days earnings. You are leaving out that with bids given away, More new customers are acquired (that is in addition to the already existing) It's not linear.

This is the challenge most people have to overcome in their thinking. its the lifetime value of a customer, NOT a single transaction.

When talking to business owners I often say (and this is not any relations to anything to do with zeek, its about their own advertising and business expansion), "If I gave you a 1.20 for every dollar you gave me, how many dollars would you give me?"

Answer: as many as they could!

you might spend 10.00 to get a customer but if they spend 200.00 over a year… you get the point?

Knowing that simple equation and accepting it is a game changer. Now success because mathematical. If you know you spend 10.00 to promote and the yeild over a year is 200.00. You'd find a way to get your hands on 10,000,000.00 wouldn't you?

in Zeek there are most likely many people that do not place their ad and from what I read, the bids do expire in 90 days. If the truth is in fact that they are paying commissions on zeek customer retail sales then I dont see much wrong here and the fact that they have items they paid 400.00 for that earn them 10,000.00 in bids over and over sure is amazing. I also do not see anywhere that you are guaranteed 1.4% I think that was clearly stated as an illustration and perhaps an average that HAS happened for the last year or so.

Either way, I just think some people try too hard and to tear things down by their own disbelief and speculation when they should just focus on what they believe in and go out in the world and do some good. If you think there are so many bad, corrupt, deceitful programs out there, GO MAKE ONE THAT WILL CREATE VALUE and help everyone you can with your short time here on this planet. There's enough negative people out there, go show them the right way!

JM

gen3benz July 27, 2012 - 21:03

Troy, no motives, just telling you the way I understand the comp plan and the payouts. trying to keep an open mind and not be negative.

John, you and Troy are good at communicating in a postive way, so much that its hard to remain nevative for long. You both would make great politicians. Dont me to sound like a nevative critic, but im still skeptical.

Troy Dooly July 28, 2012 - 03:46

@Gen3benz,

🙂 all good my friend. I fully understand we do not always see eye to eye on this issue (most of the time), but you have brought up some solid points over the course of the conversation.

John Milanoski July 25, 2012 - 01:08

Thanks Troy for all you do!

I don’t comment much on the net but this one for some reason got me thinking about our industry.

As far as I can tell, Zeek has an innovative solution for any newcomer to Network Marketing, what might be a great stepping point into a great industry. My observation is that zeekrewards is not doing anything different promotional wise than any other company in the industry. Every distributor / affiliate in the industry that wants to have success will give away samples of their products (if they are promoting it and believe in it). That’s a natural process of spreading the word. All companies have some sort of qualification to receive compensation be it volume, group size, time, etc.

Zeek has rather simple qualifications for certain portion of their model. Volume in any company can come from many sources, partial personal consumption, customer consumption, products used to give away as samples (as most companies do). In zeek it’s no different. Members are simply giving away bids to promote zeekler. They are marketing (on a mass scale in this case) Makes perfect sense to me!

Most companies pay out +-50% (many companies keep more because of unqualified members). Where the difference becomes obvious is how zeekrewards decided to pay their commissions. I read on their site that they take up to 50% of that days revenue from penny auctions etc. (and they are ridiculously profitable) and pay it out to a retail bonus pool. Any member can qualify by putting their efforts towards advertising and being of rank silver, gold or diamond. It’s like we have all heard before. MLM simply takes the money that would normally be paid to advertising and marketing and pays it to the members for that task. In Zeekrewards, the qualifications are unique and they have leveled the playing field for many people.

Zeekler customers continue to accumulate and thus the revenue in the bonus pool. If that is Ponzi then I guess all mlm’s are Ponzi. Also, people that have not recruited anyone but advertised are getting paid… how can that be Ponzi? Frankly, those of us of influence should consider our bias and let the experts of legal state what they find. It is detrimental to the industry as a whole to wrecklessly and positionally state things that could cause damage and potentially be wrong. Support the industry. Ultimately I suspect Randy was just encouraging those he cares about to be careful. It was mixed with his own stance and it is something any of us could and probably would do. He most likely wants the best for everyone and to protect and when you care about others that are close to you sometimes you can over protect. I think all in all, Any MonaVie member that did join any other company would continue to use the MonaVie products if they believe they are great, matter of fact, they would more than likely buy MORE of them with extra money they earn. If they do not believe in the products then it is better for MonaVie that they leave anyway. The whole bad apple story!

Zeek is surely attractive because, If you are a beginner you can succeed and potentially sustain yourself while you learn to build a group too. The experienced person still has tremendous opportunity too because they can benefit from building a group and receiving the extra rewards. It appears that Zeekrewards has simply decided to pay out all the 50% commission. They appear to be very profitable from PENNY AUCTIONS where the commissions come from. MonaVie and any other company pay out the same +- 50% of their revenue, the only difference is how they do it. Companies should focus more on building community. That’s what creates stability, Why do you think Amway has done as well as it has? The system, professionalism and support. People will stay with Randy and MonaVie because he is a great leader and they are solid. As long as that continues, it will be the choice of many and for many, it is one part of their portfolio.

It will be interesting to see what news comes in the following months. I hope it is positive and many people are relieved to know their efforts have been in the right place. Either way, many people are growing and our industry is expanding. There is a lot of room out there and Amway has proven that Saturation probably does not exist.

Abundance thinking is always better for us ALL.

Respectfully,

JM

Troy Dooly July 25, 2012 - 03:10

@John,

Thank you for sharing with the community. Each time I read one of your comments, I am impressed with the insight you share.

I agree Zeek is a great starting point. Too many times in our great profession, people get started on the wrong foot, and then never move to the next level.

Although there is no telling what the future might bring, the one thing I do realize is after talking to hundreds of ZR affiliates, they want to do things right, and they want to make a future in network marketing.

And at least 100K of them have received some pretty good compliance training which will help them in any company they move to in the future.

Again, thank you sir for taking time to comment and add value.

Living An Epic Adventure,
Troy

Morten July 26, 2012 - 00:53

@John

Bids spent in auctions don’t generate much revenue in themselves. They are not MONEY, but 100 bids spent in an auction will raise the price for an item with $1.00, so the winner of the auction will have to pay a higher price when the auction is won.

The most significant stream of money coming IN to Zeek is the money coming in from affiliates, in their initial purchase of bids.

The second most significant stream of money coming IN is probably affiliates buying bids themselves (in order to earn matching VIP points and 20% commission). And the third most significant stream is probably the different fees (membership fees and other fees).

For the auctions to be profitable, Zeek will need to have a money printing device connected to it, a device that generates a stream of MONEY in connection to the stream of bids.

The revenue is generated when the bids are SOLD to someone, paying real money for them. It's not generated when the bids are spent in auctions. It's not generated when people are reinvesting points in buying more sample bids.

Investing points can only generate more points, unless they have a money printing device somewhere in the system connected to the points.

The stream of MONEY in Zeek goes something like this:

REAL money coming in from new affiliates –> REAL profit sharing –> REAL money going out to old affiliates (through the daily RPP and commissions).

In addition you have a stream of virtual currencies, in "the compounder" part where affiliates are buying sample bids, where they can reinvest daily RPP and make their VIP balance grow:

(Real money paid IN) –> VIP balance –> daily RPP –> add to VIP balance –> more daily RPP –> and so on and so forth for infinity.

New affiliates will mostly earn virtual points, not real money.

Dan.M. July 26, 2012 - 23:52

Hey Morten. Your friends are waiting for you at bmlm, they'll listen to your ASSUMPTIONS! They are the masters of assumption. You know what they say about assumptions don't you…

No offence, but please don't reply.

Anthony S. July 24, 2012 - 16:22

I have a question about Zeek/Zeekler. I traveled this past week with a current rep and I listened to him working for 3 days on a billing issue. His account with Zeekler was closed due to his monthly payment not going through. When he tried to call customer service, he kept getting disconnected. Then he attempted to chat, and eventually received an email stating that he needed to "have a charge back reversed" by his bank. He then spent another day on the phone with his bank, and they found no record of any kind of "charge back" issue. Three days, unable to get a live person on the phone, and no idea what the issue really is. What could possibly be going on there? Is that a common experience when trying to reach customer service? Wow…

Troy Dooly July 25, 2012 - 03:27

@Anthony,

Your comment doesn't provide enough information for a precise answer, so part of what I write will be in question form, and in general response.

1. Since you were traveling, are you stating your friend was trying to connect and the call kept getting dropped?

2. Has your friend, responded to the email sent to him and explained his bank, does not show a "chargeback" pending?

3. With the company growing at a rate of 30% a month they are way behind being able to answer all of the 3000 daily live calls that come into the call center. No excuse, just a fact. A fact that even ViSalus is going through, and other companies that are growing.

Living An Epic Adventure,
Troy

Anthony S. July 27, 2012 - 00:23

Well, we were traveling and stopped at several hotels, calling with both cell and land lines. It was on speaker for a bit and would say you are caller #X then disconnect. Same thing happened on the chat from his laptop. In the chat, he kept getting told that he had to reverse this "charge back" before they could do anything to help him. He even checked with his other bank accounts that he didn't use for sign up – those banks had no "charge backs" either…

Troy Dooly July 27, 2012 - 02:54

Anthony,

Have your friend send me a private message with his Zeek id, and let me check into it.

John Milanoski July 23, 2012 - 17:42

I think this industry has to understand the core contradiction it operates with. I personally believe MLM is the greatest business model in existence.

With that said, you would also have to believe by default that ALL products should be sold that way. If we expect the industry to succeed then we would expect that right? But, that is not the real belief of most Corporate side MLM.

Its as if they say… MLM is the greatest model ever but only ours should succeed! If all products were sold via MLM then what happens if you are in a company that sells sandwiches, can I only eat sandwiches? My neighbor sells deserts and I want a dessert and what the heck, I believe in MLM and I think that I know many people that want dessert too… but if I enroll, I have to choose to either sell desserts or sandwiches and if I do both I lose my incomes and possibly get sued?

I think this industry needs to wake up and realize we all create the success or failure. If we spend our time badmouthing and working from a scarcity mindset it distracts us from building great companies!

Let’s deliver to the people what they ask… FREEDOM, that also means freedom to choose. It is that freedom that has forged all great MLM companies. Let’s build such great companies that people will STAY involved for life and accept that if we truly believe in MLM these members will most likely represent several companies without threat. It may be counter intuitive, but the people in your company are there because of their own choice and freedom to do so. I don’t understand how its ok for an MLM company to welcome ALL (many who are already part of another MLM) but then ban them from being part of another after they achieve rank .

I do understand, there are those that think they can somehow escheat a new unearned downline by badmouthing another company and or bringing the latest and greatest shinny company around. Those people will punish themselves (a company leader does not need to do anything about it) by default. Building a solid MLM business takes professionalism, dedication, commitment and great personal drive.

Leaders become very UN-ATTRACTIVE when they start to tear down our industry in ANY FORM. Lift up all MLM companies for what they represent to the world. The bad companies will surely come and go but we don’t have to bring them down, they will do that to themselves. Be responsible for your own influence and how you represent this industry. ALL COMPANY OWNERS BEAR THIS RESPONSIBILITY and all participants should operate the way we would expect to be percieved.

Respectfully,

JM

Paul July 24, 2012 - 08:27

WOW! JM, I do not know of many company owners who would put it so well as you did. You are right, most people in MLM industry are in more than one company. Sad to say though most of them (including me) usually are not making a lot of money. They happen to be supporting the big pins and the company for that matter because that is where the new money in a company mostly come. Sometimes the reason is the product is great.

…..and then finally a company (like someone said earlier here) "comes around that the average person can make some good money unlike most of the mlm’s out there" and all hell breaks loose. Well, almost. LOL I agree with you; build a strong company with a product in demand where the last person in is making money and no one will have to be a genius in selling or recruiting.

When "grand daddy" AMWAY took America by storm, every critic came out of the woods trying to tear them down. Well, look what "grand daddy" is doing allover the world. I remember someone saying, one day every house hold product will be sold the "AMWAY". It does not seem so far fetched today, does it. Bigger MLM companies are yet to be build and I look forward to be apart of a few of them especially the sandwich and dessert companies LOL.

Grace to you.

stephanie July 23, 2012 - 11:22

hello Troy! how are you doing today!

I have an down line. she sent money order to by zeek sample bids. A month has passed but her VIP point account still remain (0.00). I called the company last week (18889279335), the representative told me to wait for one more week to see what going on. Which I did, but the money was not in her account yet. I called back the company today, but it seem impossible to reach, and the live chat "on and off" may cause by a company poor internet connection. my down line is frustrated, and she pressured me everyday. I will very appreciated if you help me or show me how to solve this problem.

Thank you Troy!

Troy Dooly July 23, 2012 - 18:29

Well, there is no way to help you, since I do not have any Zeek IDs to pass on.

So if you are seriously wanting help send a private email through our contact form.

stephanie July 23, 2012 - 21:21

hello Troy Dooly!

Could you show me how to send a private email through our contact form?

Troy Dooly July 24, 2012 - 04:17

Stephanie,

http://mlmhelpdesk.com/contact-us/

G July 22, 2012 - 22:28

At a Monavie Convention at the Salt Palace Dallin Larsen made a statement in front of thousands of Distributors. We don’t care if you leave Monavie to do another deal. God Bless you. You always have a home here at Monavie.

Troy Dooly July 23, 2012 - 03:32

@G,

And I have no doubt Dallin meant every word. However, many times throughout history we see well meaning leaders have to change their positions for different reasons.

Sometimes those reasons are warranted and very relevant. While at other times the reasons are not warranted but are perceived as warranted because of miscommunication.

In the two cases I mention above we do not yet know when the MonaVie legal team decided to file suites. But if these are like the majority of cases it is due to a lack of communication. And many times the lack of or miscommunication does come from both sides due to a huge rise in emotional frustration and a break in trust at some level.

I just pray they can all get through without the lawsuits. One day a company is going to sue the wrong distributor and when that happens, we may find that the distributor has access to a law firm who will take the case all the way to the Surpreme Count and change life as we know it in direct sales aka network marketing.

G July 23, 2012 - 07:57

I thought his statement was one of confidence,.

That Monavie is so strong, you are going to make your way back here one day as there is no greater opportunity. I thought that was a great message and a message that they and other companies should stand by. A message of true freedom.

People are independent the company provides the products and compensation for the movement of the products. Joining company like zeek can actually help those who might need extra money to afford their autoship and samples etc for the company they love. Two separate types of businesses that do not conflict with each other.

People work their corporate america jobs and do direct sales as a plan b. If you left your corporate america job and are making a full tine income in a company like a Monavie, then why cant you have a plan b if your Monavie income declines?

Why would they discourage you for backing up your way of life and protecting your family? I think that what people are doing. Sometimes what the company does will cause your income to drop big time, or perhaps there is a shift in what people are buying do to factors out of yours and the companys control. You always have to have a plan B or you will be back the the JOB again.

I believe you should always have a way to protect yor family income. Hopefully you make enough money to have multiple streams of income not just in MLM but in multiple types of residual types of investments. Funny how when a company is doing so well how people spend more time trying to do negative posting to get people not to look at what hot and in fact they are shining the light brighter on what they do not want their people to see.

If they dont want their people to join a hot company like zeekrewards or whatever then spend time more time recruting for your main MLM and helping your people sponsor more and have a blast! Your attitude with breed more and more activity and your people will not want to leave you for some new hot deal. When I watch negative political campaigns I dont feel like voting for either party. It make both parties look ugly. Go out and do the best with what you got, have a plan B and have fun. G.

Dan M July 23, 2012 - 22:07

@ G

Well said!

Brad July 22, 2012 - 07:37

I asked this question on a prior post before Randy made his comments:

I would like to hear from a Zeek affiliate that they receive income figures as displayed in the 2011 Income Disclosure Statement: 65.73% of U.S. affiliates received no income at all, the median annual income for all affiliates worldwide was $0, and the average annual income for all affiliates worldwide was $1,076.24. There are different levels such as distributor ($1,072), manager ($2,774), executive ($10,310), senior executive ($5,594), and affiliates who have not received a rank ($1,949). I know there are ranges for each level, but these are the means and medians.

Troy Dooly July 23, 2012 - 03:55

Brad,

I think this is a great question, but I am not sure the average affiliate is going to fully understand what you want.

1. Are you wanting them to tell you their "paid as rank" in 2011?
2. If you do want the paid as rank, then do you want them to take the time to break out their 1099 to reflect how much income they had at each rank, then report to you the breakdown and the gross amount reported on the 1099.

Although your question seems simple it is compleat because no one comes into a company and stays at a specific rank most of the time who does receive a 1099.

Second the Income Disclosure Statement is ONLY for the USA.

Morten July 23, 2012 - 08:24

@Brad

You can probably ask Erin, one of the readers on BehindMLM, visiting from time to time.

Her husband was one of the affiliates who received a 1099-MISC for 2011, without having withdrawn any money. I believe the best chance is to place a comment in the tax-discussion thread – the "$100,000 in fraud occurring".

You can probably ask Jimmy, too. He's one of the "regulars" in the Zeek topic there.

Karyn July 23, 2012 - 20:08

If he didn't withdraw any money, he wouldn't pay any tax. Lots of businesses make income but if the expenses meet or exceed that amount there is no tax obligation. I think he might need a new accountant…

Morten July 24, 2012 - 01:19

@Karyn

We don't really know how the tax returns for 2011 will end up, do we? Howard Kaplan's methods failed several tests.

What we do know is that affiliates who have followed his methods will end up with artificially high taxable income and deductions. We can also check the two tax doctrines and evaluate the RPP against them.

The two tax doctrines are "Constructive receipt" and "Cash equivalence". Both can be found via this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_receipt

RPP paid to the backoffice should pass both tests, but it seems to fail both of them. RPP paid to an eWallet would probably pass the tests, but RPP paid to the backoffice seems to fail them. Zeek is not a bank, and the backoffice is not similar to a bank account.

The first priority for an accountant should be to keep his client out of trouble. So accountants might as well have used other methods than Howard Kaplan, or modified his methods heavily.

Howard Kaplan was first of all Zeek's advisor, not the affiliates'. So his method will first of all cover his client's needs, and the affiliates will only be his second priority. Zeek had identifiable motives for using a method like that, but the affiliates didn't have such motives.

So all in all, we don't really know how the tax returns for 2011 will end up. This is still an unresolved issue. We will probably know more in a couple of months.

Troy Dooly July 24, 2012 - 04:15

@Morten,

I do not think you are a tax attorney or Enrolled Agent (I use those two because they can represent clients in Tax Court), but after reading your comment to Karyn, it did bring up a question or two.

1. If a person has earned income from a company, and the company does show the income was earned, and reports that on their income tax return, shouldn't the affiliate also show this amount so there is no raised audit issues on the affiliates side?

2. If the affiliates shows a different amount, than is is earned, doesn't this raise audit concerns?

Now in reviewing Constructive Receipt, it would seem to be that the Constructive Receipt Method could apply to Zeek Affiliates when their commissions are credited to the back office. But I do believe the 1099 may not show "year to date" as a calender year, but as a fiscal year based on the rolling 90-day period.

If we look at the above scenario, of the rolling fiscal year based on the join date of the affiliate isn't there a possibility the Constructive Receipt would work?

Living An Epic Adventure,
Troy

Morten July 24, 2012 - 13:46

@Troy

1. "If a person has earned income" isn't the problem here. The affiliates have earned RPP paid to their backoffice, not money paid to their accounts.

So we will first have to test if the RPP pass or fails the different test as constructively received and cash equivalence. You started from the wrong viewpoint, assuming it already had passed the tests?

2. If there's doubt about several tax returns, where the same party is involved in all of them, the IRS will need to audit RVG too — collect the correct information from the original source of the 1099-MISC taxforms.

And please don't start with theories about "fiscal year" or something similar. The affiliates are mostly ordinary tax payers, not big corporations. So all of them received the 1099-MISC in early February.

The last sentence in the constructive receipt doctrine:

"However, income is not constructively received if the taxpayer's control of its receipt is subject to substantial limitations or restrictions.”

The limitations here is that you can only use the RPP to buy sample bids, it's some sort of internal currency with no real value outside Zeek. You can't withdraw it directly either. The RPP is some kind of "points" that can allow you to withdraw money, but with several restrictions.

.

Troy Dooly July 25, 2012 - 03:45

@Morten,

I think some of this has been talked about already so it may seem redundant.

1. I do understand the RPP is just points, and doesn't have any dollar for dollar exchange rate so would not be counted as income.

So it would seem that sense that the RPP points would not be counted as taxable income.

2. I agree that the affiliates are ordinary tax payers. However, since there is a 90-day holding period (my words, not Zeeks), it would seem that if a person were to draw down all their RPP points, then the request would not be for a calender year, but for a rolling 12 month period based on the individual affiliate's date they first qualified for the RPP.

I am not trying to create any new theory, just working to figure this all out. 🙂

I think we are close to being on the same page.

Mike July 24, 2012 - 07:54

@Brad,

So let me get this straight, her husband made earnings from the rpp and could take the cash or buy more bids? Sounds like he choose to buy more bids, that doesn't mean he didn't make any money. All of his earnings that he made from the rpp is still cash earnings, he choose to spend the cash on more bids.

Maybe he can write off the bids as a business expense.

Mike July 24, 2012 - 08:01

the above post should have been @morten not Brad

@morten

So let me get this straight, her husband made earnings from the rpp and could take the cash or buy more bids? Sounds like he choose to buy more bids, that doesn’t mean he didn’t make any money. All of his earnings that he made from the rpp is still cash earnings, he choose to spend the cash on more bids.

Maybe he can write off the bids as a business expense

Morten July 24, 2012 - 19:37

@Mike

You're assuming the RPP will pass the tests, so you're starting from the wrong direction.

The RPP will first have to pass the test of being constructive received, "with no substantial limitations or restrictions". Then it will have to pass the tests for cash equivalence. And THEN we can call it "income" or "cash", if it passes the different tests.

RPP isn't money, but you will get an illusion of it being money if you blindly accepts the picture presented to you in your backoffice.

Zeek pays in "points". The points will set an upper limit for what the affiliate can withdraw as cash per day, but it isn't actually a payment. The payment will happen when you send your withdrawal request to Zeek, when they're writing a check or transferring the money to your eWallet (after 14 days from your request).

RPP can be compared to receiving a daily message about how much Zeek can be willing to let you withdraw as cash. If they send a letter to you — "You can withdraw $100 as cash today" — then the letter won't be cash, will it?

You CAN buy sample bids for some of the allowed withdrawal in the letter, but you can't buy anything else outside Zeek. So it's clearly not real money we're talking about here.

The PROMISE of a payment can be taxable, too. So the RPP can be taxable if we consider it to be an unconditional promise of a payment from a solvent entity, where the promise is assignable and marketable (can be transferred or sold to someone else), plus a few other conditions.

If the income fails the tests, so will the deductions. RPP isn't money, so if you have reinvested RPP in buying bids then you have only invested "points".

Troy Dooly July 25, 2012 - 03:20

@Morten,

You are correct the RPP is not money, it is points, and the company has never equated a dollar amount to the points. Although, if affiliates have not gone through the training, hey may not realize this fact, but at the same time anyone who joins any company and does not become a student of the company is not really in business for themselves, and should quit.

Since the RPP is not money or income, then the only time it really comes into play is when, someone converts some of their points, into cash. And at that time the money is made available to them to transfer to their ewallet just like all other earned commissions. Now I might be off on that just die to the fact even the most sophisticated tax pros do not fully understand the tax code.

And, it is my understanding that part of the new business model will allow points to be used for additional services and/or items of some kind. Not sure the company has fully released what all this might entail.

Living An Epic Adventure,
Troy

James A. July 25, 2012 - 13:35

Just a simple question….what amounts is or has Zeek issued 1099's in the past for? It's my understanding they are issuing 1099's for the total RPP and encouraging affiliates to write off their sample bid repurchases.

Troy Dooly July 25, 2012 - 17:02

@James A.

The 1099s are issues for income earned. The RPP has nothing to do with the 1099. As a matter of fact this was a topic of conversation today at the Red Carpet Event.

Jeff E. July 25, 2012 - 18:03

IMO….. You EARN income daily from your CASH REWARDS, which would be your INCOME that is 1099'd. Your initial bid purchase and every other bid purchase you make daily is a business EXPENSE, along with your monthly subscription fees,etc. So in basic accounting math…. Earned Income – Expenses will be your Taxable Income. If you cash out $5000, you obviously did not buy more bids, so you have a taxable income of $5000.

Jeff E. July 25, 2012 - 18:17

@ Morton

They do not pay in "POINTS", they pay in cash! You receive a daily CASH REWARD based on the amount of points you have. You can choose to take the cash or use to buy more bids, which in turn are given away and translates into additional points for you to receive a higher CASH REWARD the next day.

Mike July 26, 2012 - 17:11

@morten,

I never said vip points was cash. the vip is what is used to figure your daily rewards. so if i had 1000 vip points and they share 1.5% of daily revenue then i would have earned $15 for that day. I can take the cash or I can buy more sample bids to give to my prospects and customers. either way i earned $15 for that day. People buy digital items/products all the time that is what is bought when you buy a bid. It seems like you don't have a clear understanding of the zeek program.

tired of it July 22, 2012 - 07:01

Finally a program comes around that the average person can

make some good money unlike most of the mlm's out there.

Why do the critics and high ranking mlmer's in other company's wan't it shut down? It seems like the want to keep the average person down towards the bottom while they stay at the top and make good money. Zeek has set up a program that the average person can get involved in and make good money. It seems like even the ftc is trying to make it were the average person doesn't make it.

gen3benz July 23, 2012 - 11:53

No, the FTC wants to protect the average persons money from being taken from them.

If you think about it the current average 1.4-1.5% daily RPP your VIP points would increase by ~500% a year. That would make Warren Buffett jealous considering you can convert your VIP points into $ over 90 days.

What do you have to do to recieve RPP?

Monthly fee…….$10, $50, $100 a month

Daily Ad…..or pay $10 a month like my friend and have a "company" post it for you

Dump bids on customers….again buy leads from another "company"

My friend is making $500 a week cash for doing absolutely nothing but logging into his account and converting his points….and he brags about not doing a thing.

tired of it July 23, 2012 - 20:26

AND!

Giovanni Esposito July 21, 2012 - 23:49

@ Jill

I'm curious why you might be baffled at Randy Schroeder's opinion of Zeek? Far from a baseless opinion, he states in-depth research and validation through legal opinion. If after having gained such legal opinion and not sharing it with his MLM family who have had many visits from the Zeek members, it would be remiss and even unconscionable to simply sit on that validated opinion his research and legal team discovered about Zeek. I'm also of the belief that he spoke from the heart, as Troy also mentioned.

One may beg to differ on the legal opinion and whether it should be conveyed to his MLM family (NB: Randy did not release this information beyond those he has responsibility towards), but to call it a disparaging or unjust comment towards Zeek without the context as Randy himself gave in his comment is to perhaps miss the point.

As a leader in the MLM industry who uses experts and his own expertise to bring his company forwards in its own niche and to keep MLM in general associated with integrity and good practice, I suggest that Randy was obligated to speak up to his people about a potential issue related to the well-being of his business in association with a business model he sees as a ponzi discreet from MLM as well as his immediate MLM family who may otherwise be left without leadership in these matters. In this regard, Randy's comments about Zeek are the opposite of selfish and show a level or responsibility and integrity consistent with the respect he had forged in his years in the MLM industry.

In this manner each may form their own opinions, hopefully based not only on faith and trust, but also on facts and personal research.

Further to that research, I'm looking forwards to the addition of Len Clements' report that I understand may be due out shortly.

Troy Dooly July 22, 2012 - 02:34

@Giovanna,

Excellent comment and insight.

On a side note… Len and I have talked about Zeek and the unique penny auctions in detail and I am also looking forward to his report because I am sure it will raise even deeper concerns that some of us have ever raised and more than likely will give folks even more items to review as they decide if the unique bid auctions or Zeek specifically is the business for them.

Brad July 22, 2012 - 07:26

Who is Len Clements’ and when is his report on Zeek coming out?

Troy Dooly July 23, 2012 - 03:56

Brad,

I think I answered already.

Dan.M. July 22, 2012 - 13:12

@ Troy

Who is Len Clements, when can we expect to see this report and where can we see it?

Do I detect some alarm bells in your comment above?

Troy Dooly July 23, 2012 - 03:50

@Dan,

Len is first and foremost a close friend and business associate. We do some consulting work together. Len is a mathimatision and expert witness. His ability to dig deep into the math behind any company and niche is at times amazing to me and at other times so convoluted I am not sure how he comes to his conclusions. 🙂

Len owns a company called Market Wave Inc. http://www.MarketWaveInc.com

Len met Dawn at the Association of Professional Network Marketing in March along with me.

Over the last few months has written a few little things nothing big.

A month or so ago reached out to request a formal interview to ask some additional questions and see if he could get an inside understanding of their business model.

They have agreed but I am not sure if the interview has already happened or will be happening. I am pretty sure it still needs to take place.

When Len and I talked I did ask him to go beyond Zeek and dig into the whole unique big auction niche.

Len is a stickler for detail. He does his best to get a full understanding of the math before he publishes anything. However, when a company will not talk with him, then he will use every method he knows to run the math before reporting.

A few years ago Len took issue with PrePaid Legal and asked for an interview to better understand an issue he had with them comp plan. They did not respond… He reported his conclusions… Prepaid Legal had their legal team come knocking.

I trust and respect Len and his work even when we disagree.

Karyn July 22, 2012 - 18:44

Please elaborate on the report (Len Clements) you are referring to and where this can be viewed when it is complete. …just a little confused, are you saying you that you already have deep concerns? (which will increase with the release of this report) ? Thank you!

Troy Dooly July 23, 2012 - 03:41

@Karyn,

Len Clements is a personal friend and one of the leading consultants and advocates in Network Marketing. His statistical data is some of the best I have ever seen. As a mathimatision Len views many situations far different than most, and he digs deeper and is able to create many different mathimatically equations before he takes the time to write on a company.

In the last few months he has mentions Zeek a little but not much. After he and I talked I asked him to go beyond just Zeek and dig into the whole niche of unique bid auctions.

He has reached out to the Zeek leadership and it is my understanding they are willing to talk with him for an interview with their legal and compliance team on the call.

I belive the interview will take place first of next week if not already and then it will take Len a little while to get it posted.

You can view Len's bio and read more of his info at http://www.MarketWaveInc.com

Chris July 23, 2012 - 08:11

Okay…so, if Len says something good does it mean anything? NO…if he says anything bad does it mean anything ? NO…who cares…such an amazing amount of useless energy being focused on Zeek for the negative, what about the lives that have been changed and are changing for the better?? Just like KSchang's blog, he/she cannot wait to see a negative to update it on the blog, does it mean anything?? NO…99.999999% of the people can care less….I know i dont, but its entertainment value….I just think who cares what Len says good or bad….alarms? you have to be kidding!

Troy Dooly July 23, 2012 - 18:44

@Chris,

Why do you feel what what Len Clements has to say is not important?

Lynette July 21, 2012 - 20:32

@Morten

You are in Zeek, I believe you stated with 70k bid balance?? Am I correct or did I confuse you with somebody else.

If you are in Zeek and think it's illegal, why are you still involved with something that you don't believe in?

Is it because you are making money and in the end your convictions don't win – the zeek money does???

Lynette

Morten July 23, 2012 - 08:33

@Lynette

No, I'm not involved in Zeek or any other opportunity. So I can't answer the rest of your questions.

I would probably have felt relatively relaxed if I had been a member.

Jill Cattano July 21, 2012 - 15:31

@Troy:

Thank you for once again reporting honestly, ethically & with integrity. I am looking forward to seeing you & catching up next week at the Red Carpet Event in NC.

As a former Monavie Black Diamond it would be a pleasure to share with you my opinion on Randy's "personal" opinion on Zeek Rewards. To say I was shocked & disappointed is an understatement and I am confident that Dallin, Henry or Randy would never make a disparaging public statement about another company in the industry, whether it was their opinion or not, they would know it would not serve the MLM industry as a whole and therefore could damage their place in it as well as many other excellent companies that have been in business and paved the way for their company and most of us for the last 100+ years.

@Howie

In response to your statement:

"What I don’t understand is if you are a leader aka Black Diamond why would you leave to go some where else if you are making so much money and have a huge downline? I think integrity has to play a roll in this."

1st of all – Troy nailed it in his video on this subject, the biggest reason people leave is because of a breakdown in communication and trust.

2nd: You are correct…Integrity has everything to do with it – you just have it backwards. When you achieve the rank of Black Diamond or any rank for that matter and are NOT still holding that rank and yet are continuing (sometimes encouraged) to stand on a stage as if you are still qualifying and earning that income (but you are NOT) in front of new people that are looking to join, can be very misleading and – that is an integrity issue in MY OPINION. In addition, making the assumption that a huge down line equals a profitable business especially with a binary but let's include all other plans, means you need to study compensation plans.

3rd: I think it is unfair to lump everyone in the same category as the TOP GUN guy ( I guess we are protecting his identity for some reason) you are speaking of – I believe he is an exception to the norm, most people do not bounce, he is exceptionally good at structuring deals with companies for a payout in order for him to move to a new company and bring his team with him…MonaVie had good intentions and found that out the hard way and it cost them a pretty penny. Most people do not intentionally operate that way, they are of excellent integrity, join a company because they love the products, the comp plan or both. If they joined the company because they were looking for a business opportunity and that business stopped being profitable (much like some real estate investments become bad investments and you make a business decision to cut your losses) and decided to leave for the traditional market or another MLM company – why is it that people find that strange? …Because they get confused about being in business, loving a product line and being in relationships.

Here is the truth about it:

Most People Join an MLM for 2 main reasons:

The Products

The Business Opportunity

(okay some people may join to make more friends but most don't make a conscience decision to do that – it is a by product of "relationship marketing"

Most stay when they are not making money for 2 reasons:

The Products

The Relationships they have made

(obviously most stay when making money regardless unless a grievous personal integrity or legal issue arises)

Nothing wrong with any of those reasons, the point is that it is unfair to assume you know why a person leaves any company without understanding why they joined in the first place.

If they joined the business to make money and they are no longer making money…it is a logical and prudent decision to leave. If they joined to take advantage of wholesale pricing on the products they love and they stay for the same reasons…great. If they stay for the relationships they have made along the way, great, their choice as well.

It is all very personal and very different for each person.

Finally, I think the one thing that needs to be emphasized is that there are thousands of Direct Selling & MLM companies out there. Each one has exceptional products and services and each one "speaks" to an individual differently. To yell and beat your chest that "yours is the best" and walk around with your head in the clouds and not recognize or give validity to the multitudes of very excellent companies in this industry is just like a toddler running around yelling, "mine".

When we lift the industry as a whole we benefit each company within the industry, when we disparage a company unjustly within the industry (personal opinions included) you blemish the whole industry unjustly.

Why anyone that has spent any time in this industry and earned a lucrative income from it would want to cause another person to lose hope and possibly miss out on this industry completely because of selfish remarks has me very baffled…

Just saying…

Keep it real Troy, we need you to weed through the muck and the mire!

e July 22, 2012 - 06:43

@Jill

What were the reasons your MV business took a huge dive? Where was your weekly volume, at the time you decided to leave MonaVie? Why didn't you sell you MV business? Thanks.

Jim July 28, 2012 - 19:11

Well said Jill (:

Brad July 21, 2012 - 06:29

Troy,

I don't know if it is just me but it seems your blog lights up with anything related to Zeek Rewards and not nearly as much with other MLMs. Is is common for people to really take interest in one company or is it because Zeek is new or is it because of Zeek's compensation arrangement. I just find it interesting the attention Zeek gets. As you know my interest is because I have family and friends in Zeek and they asked me my opinion on the company.

Troy Dooly July 21, 2012 - 08:26

@Brad,

Everyone now and then, we will see something hit that will cause a huge conversation. In 2009 – 2010 it was the MLM wireless wars and we saw the same type of conversations. I also think part of it, is the fact I will engage with folks, and many who write in the network marketing space, either do not engage or limit what they allow to be said.

In most cases, as we create news and editorials, we do not see massive conversation, just the embedding of the videos across different websites.

And, of course there are some conversations that will take place on editorials which are only available for those who are part of our monthly membership plan.

But all in all, when folks are looking for answers, or there is a huge conversation on some critical website, we will see an increase in the conversation here.

In the case of Zeek, because of the major issues from the very beginning. Now it is because the whole unique bid auction niche is so controversial that the conversation just keeps rolling. And in some cases, I get the feeling that Zeek is seen as the category, and folks just throw in the other companies. It is kind of like using the word iPod for all mp3 players.

When folks have questions or very heated opinions, then conversations will explode.

The one thing I still find concerning about the whole topic, is folks are still joining ALL of the companies, without really knowing what they are joining or why. I know this also happens in traditional companies, but in this case, it does concern me. Which I get emails from folks asking "should I join" I am very clear, that they should never join any company unless they fully understand the business model and the risks. Sadly I am not sure folks are listening.

James A. July 23, 2012 - 08:30

I think Brad brings up a fair point in regards to your reporting. You have previously said that some companies send you free product or pay for your travel expenses to speak at their events, but are you ever paid directly or indirectly by companies above and beyond free product and travel expenses to speak about them on your site?

I believe this is a fair question since there are a tremendous amount of people who really view your input and feedback as impartial and credible and use it as a means to recruit affiliates and distributors into their opportunity. Tks!

Howie Mosse July 20, 2012 - 20:01

Hey Troy,

I am still with MonaVie. 3 years now. We even talked on facebook every now and then. People come and go in this Industry. What I don't understand is if you are a leader aka Black Diamond why would you leave to go some where else if you are making so much money and have a huge downline? I think integrity has to play a roll in this. Look at the guy from the " TOP GUN" Team. You know who I mean. He has been in 4 companies in the last 3 years. Where is the integrity? Was Randy's comments appropriate? Only Randy can tell you why he said what he did. Obvisously he had quite a few people that wanted him to bring it up. Maybe the downline of some of the people that left felt betrayed. I guess we will see what happens next. Keep doing your reporting. It is always good to hear you speak your mind.

Troy Dooly July 20, 2012 - 20:36

@Howie Mosse,

I think he has been in 7 companies in the last 3 years at last count 🙂

I have all the respect for Randy, and without a doubt know he spoke from his heart.

Hoiwe Mosse July 23, 2012 - 15:03

Thanks for the reply. 7 companies huh? Why do they keep paying him and why does his downline follow him.

Troy Dooly July 23, 2012 - 18:15

@Hoiwe,

I ask myself the same question? I can say his team does change dynamics a little after each company because some of the leaders stay behind.

Edward B Andrews July 20, 2012 - 09:20

@ Randy

If you really did your homework on Zeekrewards and read the income disclosure statement you would see a majority of the people join Zeekrewards for FREE spent no money out of pocket and they earn money. I know for a fact people can't join Mona Vie for FREE and earn a income.

You have proven you have not done what you have clearly stated to people on your training call.

@everyone else

Do your homework yourself make a judge for yourself instead of listening to someone trying to scare you from not leaving there company. Remember some leaders are more worried about there income then you ever making a dime in the industry.

Al July 20, 2012 - 18:34

Done my homework and from all the available information I could gather, I'm 100% convinced it's a ponzi.

Morten July 21, 2012 - 13:45

I have done my homework for 6 months or more, asking affiliates about paying customers, sale through FSC stores and similar stuff since January 2012. Please come forward if you have some real paying customers spending their own money on bids/auctions?

The reason why I have been asking about customers for 6 months is because that is the factor that can separate a real business from pyramid/Ponzi schemes.

I'm curious about something:

How do you earn money as a free affiliate, without having to upgrade first?

I haven't exactly STUDIED the compensation plan that deeply, so I may have missed something there.

Tina July 25, 2012 - 19:09

AMEN!!!

Randy Schroeder July 19, 2012 - 22:04

These remarks will be my only comments on this thread.

1: Neither Troy nor any other person knows what I did or did not do to validate the opinions I expressed. I did in fact do significant research and gain legal opinions prior to expressing an opinion.

2: The forum I used to state my opinions was a Mona Vie training web session, not an industry general site such as MLM Help Desk. The forum was entirely appropriate. Members of Zeek have been very aggressive in attempting to recruit Mona Vie members. I have not only the right, but a responsibility to clearly state my views to the intended listening body.

3: I have worked long and hard in this industry, with significant success. I have earned every right to say what I feel is correct.

4: The opinions I expressed, are mine. No opinion is stated by Mona Vie Inc.

5: I find it odd that a site such as MLM Help Desk would find fault with a recognized industry figure candidly expressing his or her views.

Best Wishes to all,

Randy Schroeder

Troy Dooly July 20, 2012 - 01:11

@Randy,

Thank you for taking time to respond Randy, as I think you know I have all the respect in the world of you and what you do as both an industry leader and a leader in MonaVie.

Instead of asking you additional questions in this thread, I would like to ask your permission to contact you privately on this matter with a few follow up questions.

I promise they will be short and I will not waste your time. If this is agreeable, please contact me privately.

Living An Epic Adventure,
Troy

Dan.M. July 20, 2012 - 03:52

@ Randy

Nobody has the right to defame!

K. Chang July 20, 2012 - 06:39

So talking "positive" is okay, but not "negative"?

Sheesh. You're been reading too much of that "positivity" stuff.

Troy Dooly July 20, 2012 - 08:30

@K.Chang and Dan M.,

I think we can all agree there is a difference from debating an issue using "critical thinking principles" and negative conversation. Although, I do not always agree with K.Chang, without a doubt, he and others have brought up valid critical debates.

Dan.M. July 21, 2012 - 12:59

@ K Chang

BTW, point no.2 in Randy's post above pretty much proves you wrong about him not being peeved at monavie reps crossing over to zeek rewards.

Chris July 20, 2012 - 06:11

Go Fuck yourself Randy

gen3benz July 20, 2012 - 12:29

" I did in fact do significant research and gain legal opinions prior to expressing an opinion."

This Randy Schroedor guy is an MLM newbie. His negative comments about Zeek have to be false. Nothing to see hear….move along….pay no attention to the man behind the curtain….

Paul July 23, 2012 - 11:18

I do not think you did your research like you say. You would know Zeek is not paying out ROIs. No where is it promised you will earn anything back let alone get your money back once you make a purchase.

I hope you will eat your words in regards to the demise of Zeek that you seem to call for. Time will tell. Won't it?

Hoiwe Mosse July 23, 2012 - 15:09

Right on Randy. This is America, you have the right to say what you want. It was also said on a MonaVie training webcast not on a blog or open forum.

John Milanoski July 27, 2012 - 12:05

Unless you are a Monavie distributor talking about Zeek?

Chris July 19, 2012 - 21:48

Randy is the biggest jerkoff on the planet….seriously….selling his fake juice claiming it cures diabetes and ailments….maybe he upset his people leaving to a better program….who needs $50 bottle of useless juice….

Zeek Rewards !! How to get to $3K a month, starting as a free member ! - Page 13 July 19, 2012 - 21:44

[…] where he also announced that they are suing two former high level reps who left Monavie for ZR. (Link) I'll listen to the call linked from Troy's site as well as his comments when my current podcast […]

Gabe July 19, 2012 - 21:11

If you were involved in Zeek in any way, you should be VERY concerned that someone with a reputation as high as Randy is willing to put his balls on the line in calling Zeek a Ponzi. Especially those that have sold their soul to the devil on a blog that is supposed to be a HELP desk. This is no HELP desk it is merely a 'you scratch my back Ill scratch yours propaganda machine for convicted crooks and other shady scam artists'. Folks like Randy don't say such things unless they KNOW it's the truth. He's basically saying, go ahead zeek, sue me, but either you'll have to prove to a court of law you're NOT a ponzi or Randy will have ample opportunity to prove you ARE a ponzi. I believe Randy is calling ZR's bluff but he has a royal flush under the table.

Obama July 22, 2012 - 14:08

You mean royal flush his career down the toilet??

Dot July 19, 2012 - 20:06

By the way.. sorry for the mistypes… Well Said Troy well said. 🙂

Dot July 19, 2012 - 20:04

What I don't understand, and I'm trying too, is that with some of these MLM's there is no competition with them what so ever.

I'm trying to wrap my head around why people get so mad, that if you're in a HEALTH MLM and decide to go into another MLM that has NOTHING to do with the HEALTH aspect, then WHY in the world are you getting mad.

Most people who are distributors… Let's just use Monavie since it's already one of the topics… So you're in Monavie and Decide to go into Zeek… What's wrong with that cuz Zeek isn't HEALTH.. Monavie IS!

Zeek is Auction… Monavie ISN'T! Hmmm…. I really do not see what's wrong with that whats so ever! There is NO CONFLICT between the two. People DO NOT want to leave Monavie because the product is super. But some people just need or want more money. Nothing wrong with multiple streams of income no matter how high you are in a business.

It's good to do different things. But we have so many BIG People out there that just takes that dream of having multiple incomes away for saying you can't go with another company. Well, from my experience in Monavie a long time ago… it was all about FAMILY… but you know what… ALL of those top people wouldn't talk to you unless you were on there level! So I left… I still love the product though don't get me wrong.

I'm not in zeek either. Anyway, My point is that if it doesn't conflict with the type of MLM you guys shouldn't trip over something stupid! You're all adults and you should learn to THINK like one! Suing here and suing there .. a bunch of bs if you ask me. Health is one MLM.. And Auction is another… THINK ABOUT IT! NO CONFLICTS MEANS NO ONE GOES! Geesh!

K. Chang July 20, 2012 - 06:50

We don't KNOW FOR SURE Randy's remarks and the 2 lawsuits against former reps are related.

I personally think it's coincidence they happen on the same day.

I'm not ready to ASSUME they (sue ex-affiliates AND discourage anyone from leaving for anything) are part of Monavie's corporate policy UNTIL proven otherwise.

Troy Dooly July 20, 2012 - 08:26

@K.Chang,

Why would you think they are related? I made it clear they are two different issues and addressed the issues separably.

Now the underlying issue of attrition may be a thin connection, but the events are three totally different events.

As for you not wanting to assume… I didn't assume either, I displayed the actual filing info. And all companies discourage reps from leaving. Lord knows all companies never want to see their best distributors leave, sadly it does happen.

Dan.M. July 20, 2012 - 15:11

@ K Chang

Pitty you couldn't adopt that "innocent until proven guilty" philosophy when it comes to zeek rewards or Rex Venture Group for that matter 🙂

K. Chang July 20, 2012 - 16:38

I need to listen to your update again. Somehow I got the impression that you think Randy had "flipped" from pro-affiliate to pro-corporate now that he reached the top. Maybe I listened to the wrong part. 😀

K. Chang July 19, 2012 - 19:41

Troy,

Did you actually ASK Randy on WHY he thinks ZR is a Ponzi?

You seem to have ASSUMED that he's doing so because some Monavie reps are jumping ship. In fact, you spent 5 minutes explaining why that's a bad idea.

I agree that it is a bad idea to retaliate. That would be a conflict of interest.

But YOU YOURSELF said you had egg on your face because YOU didn't ask the question, you ASSUMED that RANDY moving from Agel to Monavie, had to do with money. It didn't.

Did you just do it AGAIN? ASSUMED someone's intentions?

Troy Dooly July 19, 2012 - 20:27

@K.Chang,

Randy was clear on the call why he he feel the way he does, and why he thought it was important.

I did not assume anything at all.

Not sure what you mean by "explaining that it is a bad thing to jump ship." Although, I do feel it is a bad deal for anyone to jump ship, if they really love the leadership, product and opportunity. Of course I am also not a proponent of multiple streams of income either.

I did not assume anyone's intentions period. 🙂

K. Chang July 19, 2012 - 20:45

Argh, fractured sentences. I mean "explaining it's a bad idea to RETALIATE over affiliates jumping ship".

Any way, I came to a different conclusion than you did.

He said "periodically a company just comes along to sweep a lot of people into a trail of devastation". That's the ONLY thing that seem to mention OTHER PEOPLE, in about the 7 minute mark.

He said in his opinion ZR's pay plan is outside of FTC guidelines and is potentially illegal, even used pyramid, Ponzi, illegal, several times.

He didn't mention the defecting reps at all. He simply warned people NOT TO JOIN ZR, STAY AWAY.

Of course, "do not join" could be interpreted as "do not follow your upline over", but is that reading too much into that one sentence?

If you came to the conclusion he's talking down ZR *because* ZR poached his people, how did you came to that conclusion?

Dan M July 19, 2012 - 22:41

@K.Chang

Are you in Mona Vie?

K. Chang July 20, 2012 - 06:41

No. I was NEVER involved in ANY MLM. I am strictly in this as an observer.

Next question?

Jim July 28, 2012 - 19:01

K.Chang is an "Observer" slang for Cyber TROLL.

gen3benz July 19, 2012 - 23:18

"I think when people are being asked to invest 10,000 dollars into a program with the idea that they need to do no work but will receive exorbitant returns is screaming out in advance, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it."

"It's gonna blowout, it's gonna be an ugly blowout, it'll probably happen sooner not later and it will leave a trail of devastation behind it."

"It's illegal, it's a pyramid, it's probably a ponzi scheme, it's going to get shut down. Don't get swept up in it"

Randy Schroeder must not be reading this blog. Troy will set em straight! Get em Troy!

ZY July 20, 2012 - 04:34

Sarcastic? Or the other way round? Hmm.

K. Chang July 20, 2012 - 06:43

If whoever posted as Randy Schroeder below was the real deal (I'm sure Troy would not have responded if it wasn't) then it seems I was at least SOMEWHAT right… Randy doesn't agree with Troy's assessment of Randy's motivation.

Even Randy thinks Troy had "assumed", as I suspected.

Troy Dooly July 20, 2012 - 08:28

@K.Chang,

It was the real Randy. I knew he was going to post and was just waiting to take it live.

Dan.M. July 20, 2012 - 15:06

And you accuse Troy of trying to cover up the facts. Please, even a person like me thats new to mlm can see that Monavie reps are spilling their guts all over this forum and other places because they fear the Zeek lol 🙂

K. Chang July 20, 2012 - 16:36

Thanks for the clarification.

Jack July 19, 2012 - 19:18

Troy, i play poker for a living. I am very good at it. Reading situations and people is my specality…What would you think if someone said they made a mistake, with a U.S. flag behind them, held up 2 bibles and said i am a good guy…oh wait, red flags dont seem to exsist for you… people that make money from a ponzi or other frauds, HAVE TO PAY THE MONEY BACK, and many times go to JAIL..I would'nt worry so much abou the guy from monavie if i was you… when zeek ends soon, you may have you're own worries

Troy Dooly July 19, 2012 - 20:45

@Jack,

I never played poker for a living, but I did making a living judging if the people who promised me they would show up in court really would or not, before I put my money on the line to bond them out. And when they didn't then instead of folding I went after them and at times bluffed my way to finding and bringing them back to justice. I guess to a certain extent that might be seen as playing poker.

Not sure where the Flag or Bible or two comes into it.

You are correct that when folks run a ponzi or other fraud with the intent of defrauding people, they tend to go to jail. Most never have to pay the money back. Instead the courts send them to prison for so long, and they make so little of money, that if the funds are not collected, and are enough after the court costs to pay the victims, then the victims never re-coop the lost. The Stanford and Madoff ponzi's are great examples.

One thing you did seem to get wrong, you will never hear me say "I am a good guy", nothing even close to it.

And, I am not sure how you got that I was worried about Randy. Especially as an expert at reading people. The only thing I have ever been known to worry much about, is raising my daughters without their mom being around.

Now as for Zeek being around a long time or a short time, why would I worry about that? I know what I have written and said since Dec 2011, and I have no problem standing by anything I write or say. If I did, then I would not say it. As a matter of fact that's why I always use my real name no matter where I post or comment. If a person isn;t willing to boldly stand on their words, then they should not speak them.

But, if you can show me one thing I have stated that is some how incorrect, fraudulent, out of compliance, or just plain misleading then please present it. If the facts have changed, I will gladly issue a retraction.

Living An Epic Adventure,
Troy

John Milanoski July 27, 2012 - 11:58

It would be cool if the people posting what they do had to put their REAL NAME up. That would surely change things wouldn't it.

Maybe those same people would think a little more about what they post before they do.

If you believe in something that will be of benefit to many and somehow help us grow… STAND TALL and shout.

those that throw dirt, you wonder why we are laughing as you do? Look down, see that hole you're in? Keep on digging!

Dan.M. July 20, 2012 - 03:36

@ Jack. you don't play very well.

Shannon Berlin July 19, 2012 - 17:33

Holy Cow!!! MonaVie NEEDS Talk Fusion!!! Their video conferencing looks like 1979! This billion $$$ company can do WAY better!!!

For $35 per month, they’d get cutting edge video conferencing, live broadcasting, video email with an awesome template, video blog, upload to 300+ social media networks, mobile upload, e-subscription, auto responder, lead capture, and more!!!

AND, Talk Fusion has consistently ranked #1 and #2 in Alexa Ratings for quite some time. OH…and Talk Fusion is a member of the DSA and DSEI…cutting edge online and mobile global video marketing (according to Cisco, video will represent 90% of all online communications by 2014), extreme affordability, and super easy to use!!! NO BRAINER!!! Randy Schroeder, Dallin Larson….CALL ME!!! MonaVie is a great product, in my opinion; but you guys HAVE GOT to join our century!!! EVERY home business MUST have global online & mobile marketing platform…MonaVie is a globally growing business; and if you want to profit from that fact, you need to globalize your marketing campaigns!!! I’m still a little shocked; and I apologize, but seriously people…if you REALLY want to grow your business and see results, THIS is NOT a good way in which to do it!!! $35 per month (which is a marketing expense for your business) is very little to pay for the branding and business boosting you’ll receive from our products!

Shannon Berlin, Talk Fusion Global Marketing, talkfusionsoutheast@yahoo.com, 256-714-5732

Shannon Berlin July 19, 2012 - 17:32

Holy Cow!!! MonaVie NEEDS Talk Fusion!!! Their video conferencing looks like 1979! This billion $$$ company can do WAY better!!! For $35 per month, they'd get cutting edge video conferencing, live broadcasting, video email with an awesome template, video blog, upload to 300+ social media networks, mobile upload, e-subscription, auto responder, lead capture, and more!!! AND, Talk Fusion has consistently ranked #1 and #2 in Alexa Ratings for quite some time. OH…and Talk Fusion is a member of the DSA and DSEI…cutting edge online and mobile global video marketing (according to Cisco, video will represent 90% of all online communications by 2014), extreme affordability, and super easy to use!!! NO BRAINER!!! Randy Schroeder, Dallin Larson….CALL ME!!! MonaVie is a great product, in my opinion; but you guys HAVE GOT to join our century!!! EVERY home business MUST have global online & mobile marketing platform…MonaVie is a globally growing business; and if you want to profit from that fact, you need to globalize your marketing campaigns!!! I'm still a little shocked; and I apologize, but seriously people…if you REALLY want to grow your business and see results, THIS is NOT a good way in which to do it!!! $35 per month (which is a marketing expense for your business) is very little to pay for the branding and business boosting you'll receive from our products!

Shannon Berlin, Talk Fusion Global Marketing, talkfusionsoutheast@yahoo.com, 256-714-

Victor July 19, 2012 - 14:28

weird! Troy you have met the leaders of zeek right? you clearly have knowledge about MLM, what do you say about what you have heard from them and their whole compensationplan etc? Is it a long-term working plan? Does Randy even have reasons, what so ever to make a statement like that? Should anyone whos in the buisness be worried of a statement like that? Someone who thinks its great, working hard and making money?

btw love your updates, keep em coming!

Troy Dooly July 19, 2012 - 15:05

@Victor,

Yes I have met the leaders of Zeek.

From what I have seen the founders of Rex Venture Group, the parent company of Zeekler and Zeek Rewards, are not running any form of a ponzi scheme, nor are they running ant form of illegal pyramid compensation structure. Like any company launching a new program, there have been plenty of challenges along the way.

The only part of the compensation plan that has folks confused is one of their bonus programs called the RPP "Retail Point Pool" when Zeek first launched (see my video Dec 2011) they marketed this part of the compensation program way outside of compliance, and I called them on it. Others had already brought it to their attention and they hired some great consultants and attorneys to help they fix all the issues.

I believe with all the changes made, and some of the future changes that will be announced next week and the months to come, it has the makings of a solid business. DubLi Network which I called our red flags in 2007, and is in the same niche, corrected their issues and have become a public traded company and have over 3 million customers, compared to their 150K distributors. I believe all unique bid auctions, like Zeek can do the same.

Randy has some great reasons to say what he said. I said almost the same things when I first looked at them. But unlike Randy, I did take time to talk to all the folks involved, outside regulators and some folks far smarter than myself to get a better understanding of not just Zeek, bot all the companies and the underlying business niche.

I think anyone in business should listen to all statements, because they cause one to slow down and do some deeper diligence. Although, I do not agree with Randy's statements, I do understand his motives behind the words, and believe they are said with good intent.

If you or any affiliate has concerns, then you need to dig deeper to better under stand Zeek and the correct way of running your Zeek business.

All in all it is because rogue affiliates and misinformed affiliates who have not gone through the compliance course that has caused Randy and others grave concerns.

Living An Epic Adventure,
Troy

Victor July 19, 2012 - 15:18

@Troy

Thank you Troy, straight up answers as always!

Al July 19, 2012 - 20:41

@Troy

"All in all it is because rogue affiliates and misinformed affiliates who have not gone through the compliance course that has caused Randy and others grave concerns."

Hi Troy, I don't think this is it at all for the others who have the grave concerns. I've talked with quite a few affiliates and the grave concern all of us have is based on our belief that the ZR model is almost entirely affiliates paying affiliates. Not misinformed affiliates who have not gone through the compliance course.

Troy Dooly July 19, 2012 - 20:54

@Al,

I did not say those were the only grave concerns. 🙂

But where do you get the belief that ZR is affiliates paying affiliates? Without a doubt we are all concerned that the auctions need to be increased, but Zeek has been very clear that they are also focused on increasing the customer revenue, over the last few months. So it seems as with all start-up network marketing companies, Zeek as well as the affiliates are all focused on gaining customer sales as fast as they can.

Al July 19, 2012 - 23:41

@Troy,

I get the belief that ZR is affiliates paying affiliates because out of all the affiliates I've spoken with, not a single one has a paying customer who's not an affiliate.

Living the Beach Lif July 19, 2012 - 14:12

Sounds like MonaVie is made of Sour Grapes??? Could it be that some reps are possibly getting tired of selling the Juice and maybe even fewer people are wanting to join right now? I'm just saying….. : ) .

K. Chang July 19, 2012 - 19:20

The question here is… Is he acting as a general MLM coach / advisor, or is he acting as a Monavie corporate head?

If he's acting the former, then your charges are baseless.

If he's acting the latter, then there may be some truth in your comment… IF he supplies NO evidence backing up his view.

Seems he's acting the former, even according to Troy here.

Eggs on your face, it seems.

Chris July 31, 2012 - 17:08

I agree!! Well said.

e July 19, 2012 - 14:01

Also Troy, not sure if this matters, but Randy's call is not like a Dallin Larsen corporate conference call. What Randy does is a weekly coaching and mentoring session every Monday, and I believe it is the approprate time to address such issues.

Troy Dooly July 19, 2012 - 15:06

@e,

Thank you for making this clear. I got so many links in, that trying to figure out which was the original was very hard. Since Randy did make it clear his words were only his opinion, I decided to use the link to one of his site out of respect for MonaVie and the affiliates.

e July 19, 2012 - 13:52

Troy, you said in your call "let's not act like corporate America, let's act like network marketers". Well said! You know what? Randy wasn't acting like corporate America in his warning against Zeek. He was acting as a concerned distributor, just as I am a concerned distributor speaking out about Zeek. If I were the guest on the call and said the same thing, would this article be written? We believe it's a ponzi scheme that will hurt people. The argument…that's not how a President should act.

As far as terminations and lawsuits go…I kinda agree. Some of these Black Diamonds that decide to leave aren't doing it the right way. They're not selling their businesses. A lot of MonaVie Black Diamonds have never done NWM before, so I don't think they think about those options. If they did sell, they wouldn't be able to take their people (even though some would follow).

I don't know exactly what Licciardi or Smith's did? Karshner left also, but I don't know of any lawsuits filed against him. Don't think Cattano was sued? Maybe those two really did something wrong?

The problem is, when a major pin is terminated, then it's open season on everyones downline. Good article.

Troy Dooly July 19, 2012 - 15:58

@e,

I do agree with you on the fact Randy was NOT acting like Corporate America when issuing his warning on Zeek. My comment was aimed at the lawsuits. And not just at MonaVie. I want leaders from the field and corporate to start working on a way to collaborate together outside of the courtroom. Although I have close friends who are attorneys, I hate seeing folks I call friends sitting across the courtroom table fighting against each other.

I think sometimes as companies grow, both the executive team and the field leaders tend to forget where they came from, and lose the entrepreneurial spirit. If this came across to harsh, it is because it is one of those areas I just get ticked off about.

And, I hope I made it clear in the video, I fully understand where Randy was coming from.

Erik, as a field leader, I expect you to raise the bull horn and make it clear your stance on Zeek or any other company that you might feel could hurt the team. And although we may not agree on the issue, we do agree that all reps must fully understand the risks, and if they are acting foolishly rushing into something they have not fully investigated, then we as their friends need to STOP them if we can.

But, once we take on the responsibility of the leadership at a corporate level, we must be very careful HOW we issue the same concerns and warnings, because our words can cause major issues for the company and distributors. Many times our intent is founded on solid principles, but our delivery can cause issues.

Although, somewhat different, the founder of Manatech a few years ago, on public TV made a statement on one of his products. He believed deep in is soul his products could do what he said they could do. However, the AG in Texas decided to hit him and the company. In the end he lost control of the company in order to save it from the regulators and to protect his distributors.

I just don't want to see the same thing happen to any other company or leader if I can help it.

As for the lawsuits, I showed the two actual filing announcements on the legal site I found. Now without a doubt I do support any company on protecting the LOS and their brand. And most companies do allow distributors to sell their position, when leaving.

If these distributors have done anything that violates the P&Ps they signed, then I would want them to be held accountable. However instead of everyone going to court, lets sit down and discuss what has happened.

Now if at the end of the day, this has taken place, and no one is listening to the issues or have not changed their non-compliant behavior then by all means the last recourse will be a lawsuit.

In the old days before the internet, we did not see these issues near as much. Now as you said when a top pin level leaves for any reason, folks know in what seems like seconds, instead of months later.

This also makes it harder on the distributor and the company to fully figure out who contacted who. Lord knows companies should not dictate what a former distributor places on their Facebook or other social profiles. But at the same time the distributors should be respectful, and go through their social contact list, and delete anyone they know without a shadow of a doubt is with their former company.

Always good to connect. By the way I saw your email and will respond shortly, I have been getting ready for a few speaking gigs and just have been behind on things.

e July 19, 2012 - 16:19

Here's another great point my friend Doug illustrated today about lawsuits and company switching…many companies have clauses about taking your downline with you when you leave…lawsuits can happen. The very same company's that enforce these laws also shell out millions of dollars to bring on top leaders. Do you think these companies are paying millions for just the one man or woman leader? No, they're betting on the fact that they'll bring a group with them from another company, thus condoning the very thing they'll sue for.

I sold my Vemma business to join MonaVie, honored the non-compete and built my entire group from scratch…didn't bring on one person from Vemma and haven't since.

Troy Dooly July 19, 2012 - 16:48

@e,

It is a great point. Sadly in many cases the companies want distributors to shout from the rooftops when they join, but act like a church mouse, when they leave.

Erik, you did it right. I have several clients distributorships for sale right now from different companies including MonaVie. These distributors have not made big deals about leaving their former companies, and are starting to build their new ones with new people from a new list.

I am glad you added this for folks to think about.

Chris July 31, 2012 - 11:39

Mr. Dooly, you support nothing but the truth, and no more than the truth.. I agree with you 100%. Accusations , Envy, Jealousy, and Deceit, is no form of professionalism, but coward-ness. Most bloggers of negativity is from former affiliates whom's Back offices has been shut down due too deceitful misleading ways of recruiting reps, and are just upset and on a revenge for this great company. Also due too Jealousy of other MLM companies, and there members are having a hard time recruting new reps, so they spread Propaganda all across the blogasphere. This company is helping out a lot of Non-Profit organizations, as well as churches, and there communities. Mr. Dooly you are a great person. May the Good Lord Bless you, and the family.

Comments are closed.

This website uses cookies to improve your experience. We'll assume you're ok with this, but you can opt-out if you wish. Accept The Rest Of The Story